I admire hurling folk in Antrim and occasionally get to watch a match there. Went up to Cushendall one day to watch a National League game against Tipp, think Cushendall got to host it as part of their 100 year celebrations a few years ago. Good enough game with Tipp prevailing by 3 or 4 points in the end.

I think they seriously could compete in the next 10-15 years if the right structures are put in place. They need development squads for every age level and coaches in schools like Tyrone tried have pioneered in Ulster football this past decade or so. If they could get further undergae levels competing in Leinster it would also help. Geographically they are isolated but Ireland is a much smaller place now. There are motorways from Belfast to Cork so this reason is fading. Attracting people from a Unionist background to the game would also help but alas I cant see this happening to any large extent until after a United Ireland.

Finally they need to look at themselves and stop taking it as a given that they arent good enough.

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 06/08/2010 11:10:00    737765

Enola Gay,

Don't fully agree with you. If Antrim can get to a semi=final surely, even by the law of averages or the other team having an off-day, they can at least reach more finals than one !! Do you think mental attitude is the problem an an area to be given more attention ? Their club teams have at least reached many finals but getting over the winning line seems to be the problem there too. My main point is that many seem to accept good performances and leave it at that instead of pushing on !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 06/08/2010 11:25:21    737789

Fair enough point Slasher. Who knows what the reasons are for their 'underachievement'. You seem to think there is some sort of mental block or inferiority complex preventing Antrim from taking the next step and winning All-Irelands. I feel they are behind the rest and thats the way it will always be - reason why? Who knows?

I can never see Antrim winning an All-Ireland title at Minor, U21 or Senior in what remains of my lifetime. I hope I'm wrong, but I honestly can't.

The same way I can never see Kerry losing to Waterford in the first round of Munster Football Championship

EnolaGay (Tyrone) - Posts: 653 - 06/08/2010 12:29:11    737925

05/08/2010 22:05:13
brendtheredhand
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2633

737618
A bit like Kerry being surrounded by hurling counties, but if my memory serves me right that hasn't held them back in their chosen speciality.



Brendthered,

I love your posts and the craic and this is a great effort, but...............

Those "hurling" counties surrounding Kerry. One of them namely Limerick, has won more all Ireland FOOTBALL titles than 6 counties in Ulster. In the last few years while Cork have been dismantling the like of Donegal and Tyrone, they have beem beating Limerick in extra time, and with two very late goals last year.

Another of those "hurling" counties has won more all Ireland FOOTBALL titles than all but two Ulster counties, and more than 6 Ulster counties combined. They, Tipperary, also beat Down in the league final last year, the same Down that are now....

And yet another one of those "hurling" counties, Cork, have won more football all Ireland's than any team in Ulster. In the last 5 years the only team in Ireland to have beaten them in the championship is Kerry, and their record in that period has them as the number 2 in Ireland over those years.


If we take away Kerry, the other 5 Munster teams have won 12 all Ireland football titles, at an average of 2.4 each. The average in Leinster say with 12 counties and 44 all Irelands is 3.66 each. In Connacht, 5 teams with 13 all irelands, giving an average of 2.6 each.

In Ulster, the WEAKEST FOOTBALL province, 9 counties with 16 titles averaging at 1.78 or so.

So your theory does not hold up concerning Kerry at football, they are in quite a strong FOOTBALL province, but does illustrate that maybe Ulster teams suffer at football as well, due to geographical conditions. Maybe that is why the province's football record is poor as well.

So Brendthered, stop digging a bigger hole.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 06/08/2010 12:37:32    737941

Cavan_Slasher
County: Cavan
Posts: 5407

737600
Not involved in your argument Pat but Laois have only won 1. Maybe its because they take football more seriously !!



Waterford have ONLY won TWO, and not too great at football. Clare had ONLY won one, the year before Laois, until the team of the 90s added more.

So Laois's record is still very respectable.

As for club hurling, that merely illustrates that while Antrim have players every bit as dedicated and skillful as the strongholds, they do not have the depth, not all at the same time anyway.

Four Antrim clubs have been in the final, with one winning it, which is nothing short of phenomenal, but they are not all strong at the same time.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 06/08/2010 12:42:11    737954

Cavan_Slasher
County: Cavan
Posts: 5414

737789
Enola Gay,

Don't fully agree with you. If Antrim can get to a semi=final surely, even by the law of averages or the other team having an off-day, they can at least reach more finals than one




Slasher, have you seen the football the last two years? Tyrone stroll through Ulster and then get turned over next match.

So what chance had Antrim at hurling? On an off day Nicky Rackard scored 7-7 against Antrim in a semi.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 06/08/2010 18:06:28    738554

Patrique,

Sooner or later Antrim WILL make the break-through. They will find that extra wee ingredient. I personally think that their minds are set on defeat prior to these games with the big boys. Playing plenty of challenges, tournament games etc and getting the winning habit is a start. Playing in Leinster will bring them on a ton, wait and see !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 06/08/2010 18:32:59    738612

Alot it boils down to the inner workings of the mind, very little between all the Hurling countries skill wise but mentally and belief wise the top 4 or 5 are way ahead

freetaker1 (Limerick) - Posts: 758 - 07/08/2010 11:33:49    738958

patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 9134

738554 Cavan_Slasher
County: Cavan
Posts: 5414

737789
Enola Gay,

Don't fully agree with you. If Antrim can get to a semi=final surely, even by the law of averages or the other team having an off-day, they can at least reach more finals than one

Slasher, have you seen the football the last two years? Tyrone stroll through Ulster and then get turned over next match.

So what chance had Antrim at hurling? On an off day Nicky Rackard scored 7-7 against Antrim in a semi.

-----

Yes, but there was no Connacht championship to speak of for 120 years (none at all for a lot of the time) and yet Galway managed to be competitive a significant portion of the time. The main reason is the amount of people playing - Antrim have a small cluster of clubs from which to pick a team, Galway and others have a lot more. Get more people to play - thats the key. Antrim have always had a few very good players, but have always been carrying a few who are only club standard merely because of numbers.

abhainn (Galway) - Posts: 1000 - 07/08/2010 11:40:43    738965

abhainn
County: Galway
Posts: 339

-----

Yes, but there was no Connacht championship to speak of for 120 years (none at all for a lot of the time) and yet Galway managed to be competitive a significant portion of the time.



Antrim have divison 1,2,3, 4(a) and 4(b) and reserve at hurling. Tht is a slarge number of clubs.

If anything too many clubs is a problem, we have always had excellent players playing with a small club, from Divison 3 or 4 and they could not take the step up.

They needed to be playing "competitive" hurling, and as we know that is already denied them at county level up to the age of 18 due to geography.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 07/08/2010 15:19:58    739250

patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 9142


If anything too many clubs is a problem, we have always had excellent players playing with a small club, from Divison 3 or 4 and they could not take the step up.

They needed to be playing "competitive" hurling, and as we know that is already denied them at county level up to the age of 18 due to geography.


-------------------

Yes, but how many comparatively to say Galway are there in Antrrim? Particularly at senior level? Because if it is similar then there would be no geographical excuse for Antrim not to be at Galway's level. Not having a dig or anything, I'd love to see hurling thrive countrywide, but I've always associated Antrim hurling (or certainly the county team) with being from a small portion of the north east of the county

abhainn (Galway) - Posts: 1000 - 07/08/2010 15:52:54    739291

07/08/2010 15:52:54
abhainn
County: Galway


Posts: 340, but I've always associated Antrim hurling (or certainly the county team) with being from a small portion of the north east of the county


It is a bit like Galway in that the rivalry is fierce between North Antrim, the Glens, and Belfast.

At present belfast is comparitvely week, but still have a number of players in the county panel.

The south west of the county also has a few representatives for the first time in years.

However antrim have played in two all Ireland finals, 46 years apart. The captain on each occasion was from Belfast.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 07/08/2010 16:06:14    739309

Cutting Wicklow out of Leinster and swapping it with Antrim ? Have only just read that. Not a bad idea. Ye lads up their are big into your marching. A few gallops up and down Lugnaquillia would soften yer cough. I pity the poor Wickla lads though having to trade down (Down ??)

Maroonatic (Galway) - Posts: 1066 - 08/08/2010 19:38:28    740193

Pat, is therev a Belfast / Country split in Antrim hurling (& for that matter football)?

About 15 years ago a former Antrim hurling captain told me that this was a big problem & hindered the county teams in a big way. He told me that although he was capt of the hurlers & played Div 1 football with his club he did not feel wanted by the Belfast dominated county football panel & that it was probably the same for townies in the hurling panel.

As far as promotion of hurling in Down goes, most of us really arent interested. The 3 Ards clubs may as well be in Antrim anyway, & there is no big appetite for hurling in the rest of the county.

blu (Down) - Posts: 1240 - 09/08/2010 09:16:29    740396

blu
County: Down
Posts: 1110

740396
Pat, is therev a Belfast / Country split in Antrim hurling (& for that matter football)?


Well it wouldn't be as friendly as Celtic and Rangers say.

Real venom between the Glens and Belfast at hurling, and belfast and South West at football.

Cargin lost about 10 football finals because they had already decided they would be cheated at casement Park and lost before the ball was thrown in.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 09/08/2010 13:19:18    740718

abhainn
County: Galway

Yes, but how many comparatively to say Galway are there in Antrrim? Particularly at senior level? Because if it is similar then there would be no geographical excuse for Antrim not to be at Galway's level. Not having a dig or anything, I'd love to see hurling thrive countrywide, but I've always associated Antrim hurling (or certainly the county team) with being from a small portion of the north east of the county


Abhainn, although there are a number of Divisions there aren't that many 'Senior' Antrim clubs. In Div 1 there are the following teams:

Loughgiel
Cushendall
Dunloy
Ballycran
Portaferry
Glenariffe
Ballycastle
Ballygalget

with the 3 in bold being Down clubs.

Division 2 has the following:

St. Johns
Gort Na Mona
Rossa
Tir na Nog
St. Pauls
Lamh Dhearg
Carey Faughs
Gaeil Chluana
St. Galls

All being Antrim clubs.

Now, if we look at which teams within these top 2 Divisions play in the Senior Championship we are left with:

Loughgiel
Cushendall
Dunloy
Glenariffe
Ballycastle
St. Galls
Gort Na Mona
Rossa

You're bound to have at least double that amount of teams competing in the Senior Championship down in Galway?

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 09/08/2010 19:09:13    741231