I was told this morning that there is going to be a overhaul next season in this competition.

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 02/08/2010 13:01:40    732577

There has to be a overhaul as well. The qualifiers was not meant to give a disadvantage to provincial winners. The Provincial championship will be devalued in the long run.
Fair play to the teams who got through this weekend but change is needed to the system as suggested by Dublin last year.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8858 - 02/08/2010 13:22:23    732614

We've had the qualifiers for 9 years, after a century or so of the provincial championships being the only route to the A-I. I think that the mindset has only slowly changed since the qualifiers began, with some counties quicker than others to adapt (Mayo still haven't). By this stage, losing in the early provincial rounds is no longer as gut-wrenching as it used to be and teams have well-worked backdoor strategies, so are no longer making it up as they go along. This year, we not only lost all 4 provincial winners, but we also lost all 4 of the teams beaten in the provincial finals. We really need a completely open draw or we need to reserve half the places at each of the later stages of the draw for provincial losers and then provincial winners. This would mean that the provincial losers would play eachother for 2 places in the quarter-finals and provincial winners would play eachother for 2 places in the semi-finals. If there's no incentive to get to and win a provincial title in the context of the A-I, then we need to either create an incentive or abandon the structure. Going forward, I don't believe that we've seen the last provincial winner or even loser going on to win an A-I, I just think the odds are stacking up more heavily against them and there's a need to even things out a bit. I saw a stat somewhere which clearly showed that since the backdoor started provincial losers on a 7 day turnaround have only survived the next round on 9% of occasions, so were beaten 91% of the time. This is a pretty grotesque statistic and one that really can't be ignored for much longer.

Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2521 - 02/08/2010 13:28:12    732632

I'm not just saying this because Tyrone were beat, what I'm saying is there is no benifit in winning your province if your ambitions are to win Sam!

Since the new system has been introduced there has only been 4 out of 10 (I think) went the "direct route".

wise_guy (Tyrone) - Posts: 1584 - 02/08/2010 13:30:31    732641

well if they get rid of the pitch invasions then yes there is not point. but running on the pitch with thousands of royals after beating louth is something id want any year even if we loose in the quarter.

BettystownRoyal (Meath) - Posts: 3353 - 02/08/2010 13:33:31    732651

All the provincial winners this year have benefitted from the qualifiers in the past. I doubt Kerry or Meath were too worried about Dublin or Mayo's season last year when they beat them in the quarter finals. A big factor this year has been that a lot of the big guns avoided each other throughout the previous rounds of the qualifiers. Also it's worth noting that by the time the provincial losers came into the qualifiers Kildare were the only team still standing from the very first round (of the qualifiers). So while there may be an argument that there's no advantage in winning your province there is definitely a benefit in getting through the later rounds of your province and avoiding what can be a potential minefield if the draw goes against you.

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 02/08/2010 13:41:42    732672

If only two teams got through the qualifiers it makes the Provincial C'ship seem a better route to go through. It's all that's being suggested and it would be a fair structure.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8858 - 02/08/2010 14:14:48    732764

i think the whole qualifiers should be scrapped straight knockout from the start it would bring back the excitement of the oldern days

sam1996 (Meath) - Posts: 436 - 02/08/2010 14:24:58    732794

Teams deserve a second chance, one game and gone would be terrible.
Simple decrease the number of teams coming through the qualifiers. 4 Provincial winners, have only 2 teams through from the qualifiers, easily done.
Also, teams knocked out in the first two rounds of the qualifiers, i.e. not reaching the last 16 in the country, should enter the Tommy Murphy Cup. It's a cup that should be brought back but teams not forced into it based on league status.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8858 - 02/08/2010 14:35:36    732830

Dubs have been telling ye this for years! Why wouldn't ye listen to us?

PJ (None) - Posts: 2288 - 02/08/2010 15:03:00    732891

For five years straight we've been told that Dublin just weren't good enough. We accepted that why can't you?

Floops (Dublin) - Posts: 1623 - 02/08/2010 15:25:30    732931

Floops
County: Dublin
Posts: 566

732931 For five years straight we've been told that Dublin just weren't good enough. We accepted that why can't you?

It is strange how people have changed their tune of this issue.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13803 - 02/08/2010 15:32:52    732949

Floops
County: Dublin
Posts: 566

732931
For five years straight we've been told that Dublin just weren't good enough. We accepted that why can't you?

In Kerry we can accept our defeat and being gone. Dublin had a good idea last year though and it's something which should be looked into for future championships is all, regardless whether it's us, Cork, Limerick, Roscommon '10, Laois '03, Westmeath '04, Dublin '05 - '09 or any provincial Champion that would benefit from it.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8858 - 02/08/2010 15:34:50    732951

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 1480

732949
Floops
County: Dublin
Posts: 566

732931 For five years straight we've been told that Dublin just weren't good enough. We accepted that why can't you?

It is strange how people have changed their tune of this issue.

******************************
No Provincial Champion in the semi's for the first time would seem to be the main reason people would sit up and take notice. In my conversation at games, people have agreed over the last few years that the system does go against Provincial winners. The Dub's had a good suggestion last year, this season shows they were right!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8858 - 02/08/2010 15:39:18    732959

Try telling Louth theres no point in winning the provincial championship.

Barnowl94 (Galway) - Posts: 3150 - 02/08/2010 15:40:34    732964

How can anyone say that its not worth winning a provincial title. You have to strive to win every match because you just cant turn it on and off at will. When a team goes out to represent their county in a first round provincial championship game they want to win.Every player cherishes their PROVINCIAL MEDALS .So you cant say lets lose in the Ulster Championship and win the All Ireland !!

monitor (Down) - Posts: 209 - 02/08/2010 15:44:18    732976

A lot of things are to do with respect as well. Interest will whittle away from the Provincial game if the respective Champions aren't involved in the shake-up whatever county they may be.
When the Sunday Game had the star studded audience 8 days ago, there were a few questions raised there as to where is the advantage in winning the province.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8858 - 02/08/2010 15:52:26    732997

Monitor: 'How can anyone say that its not worth winning a provincial title. '

No one's really saying that the provincial titles aren't valuable. What a lot are saying is that to get to a provincial final is disproportionately risky, because the losers tend to get beaten in the next round when they come up against a team with momentum while they themselves are demoralised. The provincial winners should be in good shape mentally, but it's looking like the week after week tests that the backdoor qualifiers have to come through are making them stronger animals... not always, but increasingly. We should maybe call this phenomenon 'Dubs Syndrome', since they got very poor return for 5 provincial titles and the year they fail in Leinster finds them with their best chance for an A-I since the qualifier system was adopted (imo). I know Cork stand in their way, as well as the finalists, and other things have fallen kindly, but they met Tyrone in a far better state of preparedness than last time, and Tyrone looked very good up to Saturday.

Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2521 - 02/08/2010 16:36:03    733100

Am i missing something?
Has the qualifier system changed this year to that of the past 9 years?
Why all of a sudden is there a cry for change?
Is it because the mighty have fallen this year?
There has been talk of teams building up a head of steam through the qualifiers.
In the past teams complained about having to play week in week out as it was too much for amateur players.
Hard to keep everyone happy.

Mandown (Down) - Posts: 18 - 02/08/2010 16:50:58    733130

The qualifiers week after week was supposed to be a disadvantage but once teams get through it they are tough to beat. Tyrone and Kerry to be fair, we've benefited from it last 2 years.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8858 - 02/08/2010 16:52:32    733132