Whats the point in winning your province now?? There isn't even a finalist left in the Championship!

Time for a structure change I think!! The only things blocking a change was the Munster hurling and Ulster football championships... which where both pretty poor to be honest!

wise_guy (Tyrone) - Posts: 1584 - 01/08/2010 17:41:37    731598

Maybe winning the provincial champo is not a much of a marker as people think. Kerry and Tyrone both look like teams in transition, which would mean the difference between the top teams and the rest has closed. Roscommon won the poorest Connacht champo in years, whilst Meath won Leinster with one stellar performance and a dubious result against Louth. Lets not forget they were taken to a replay by Laois. The gap between the counties does appear to have shrunk.

Tongo (UK) - Posts: 1795 - 01/08/2010 18:46:26    731773

Typical, haven't heard no one complain until this year when the big guns go out! Every neutral in the country would agree this has been the best most exciting championship yet! Look what the system brings to the championship! It has brought Tyrone 2 All Ireland's, heard no complaints then.

MourneArmy (Down) - Posts: 1787 - 01/08/2010 19:14:21    731830

Of course there's a point in winning your provincial championship. The four provincial champions all got to the quarterfinal as a result of their performances, while the losing finalists were 70 minutes away from a quarterfinal.

Example: Meath beat Dublin in the Leinster semi-final. In order to get to the quarterfinal after that result, Meath only had to beat Louth. To reach the same stage, Dublin had to beat Louth AND Armagh and Tipperary. Three matches instead of one.

The fact that Meath weren't good enough to win their quarterfinal and Dublin were good enough to win doesn't take away from the fact that Meath got an easier route to the quarterfinal after beating the Dubs. It's unusual. Nothing more.

The_Real_IA (Meath) - Posts: 133 - 01/08/2010 19:24:09    731843

MourneArmy
County: Down
Posts: 63

731830 Typical, haven't heard no one complain until this year when the big guns go out! Every neutral in the country would agree this has been the best most exciting championship yet! Look what the system brings to the championship! It has brought Tyrone 2 All Ireland's, heard no complaints then.

To be fair Mickey Harte has been complaining about the structure of the championship for some time as winning the provincial title appears to be a handicap. I don't want to take anything away from Down as they were fantastic as were all the other teams who fought their way through the qualifiers but Kerry have been scratching themsleves for a month while Down had been playing competitive football. Tyrone have benefited greatly from the qualifier system while Dublin have been the biggest losers, I suppose there is some payback for them!

MB1 (Tyrone) - Posts: 360 - 01/08/2010 19:34:06    731858

Well said MourneArmy. Knew this was gonna start. Provincial champions have the honour of the title "Champions". Why should they get another chance?
Next thing you know, teams knocked out of the Qualifiers will want another go.
That said, a front door All Ireland like the five Down have is still better than a back door one. If we can add a back door one, we'll take it.

redandblackgaa (Tyrone) - Posts: 251 - 01/08/2010 19:37:08    731866

Teams moan about the championship format when it suits. We all the format when the champs starts in May so we should all just get on with it

Meath_bhoy (Meath) - Posts: 590 - 01/08/2010 19:38:54    731871

its the first time in what ..9 years.. had to happen some time. nothing wrong with the system.. thats football

drogheda20 (Louth) - Posts: 405 - 01/08/2010 19:53:17    731895

The fact that Meath weren't good enough to win their quarterfinal and Dublin were good enough to win doesn't take away from the fact that Meath got an easier route to the quarterfinal after beating the Dubs. It's unusual. Nothing more.

But I think that is the point, it might be easier but is it better? The qualifiers makes teams play more matches and any team who plays every week will benefit from this. Some people argue that less matches means you are fresher but I don't buy it. You get match fitness by playing matches, not by resting. 1 match a week for 5 weeks in a row should not lead to a tired team, as some would try to suggest.

We cannot have a system where you are punished for winning your games by then getting a lack of gametime.

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1429 - 01/08/2010 19:54:16    731898

Of course theres an advantage to winning the provincial championship. Jack O'Conner stated that this was his objective as it is the shorter route and you have to peak for less matches. Same true of M Harte. Its just that Teams are beginning to use the backdoor more effectively. The main losers under the present system statistically appear to be the losing provincial finalists.

mod (Mayo) - Posts: 859 - 01/08/2010 20:09:18    731919

i agree 100% benjyyy...the last two leinsters before we got a thumping from tyrone and kerry we had around a 3week break and that didn't benefit us in the slightest....this year i said on a thread a few months ago here that i wouldn't be against dublin going on a run through the qualifiers as i think it would make us stronger and give us great match sharpness for a possible quarter final.

Dubsfan08 (Dublin) - Posts: 619 - 01/08/2010 20:23:27    731958

The_Real_IA
County: Meath
Posts: 103

731843 Of course there's a point in winning your provincial championship. The four provincial champions all got to the quarterfinal as a result of their performances, while the losing finalists were 70 minutes away from a quarterfinal.

Example: Meath beat Dublin in the Leinster semi-final. In order to get to the quarterfinal after that result, Meath only had to beat Louth. To reach the same stage, Dublin had to beat Louth AND Armagh and Tipperary. Three matches instead of one.

The fact that Meath weren't good enough to win their quarterfinal and Dublin were good enough to win doesn't take away from the fact that Meath got an easier route to the quarterfinal after beating the Dubs. It's unusual. Nothing more.

Quite a moot point. Where else could you bring in the provincial winners other than the quarter finals? The difference is that every other team other than the provincial winners have been beaten once and get another go at it whilst the provincial winners don't. How people cannot see the anomaly is beyond me. Meath played 5 games to win a Leinster championship including one replay and thus reach a quarter final. Dublin played 5 games to get to a quarter final. Dublin lost one game and are in the semi final, Meath lost (one) game and are out. Hardly fair!! I agree that Tyrone have benefited from the back door, but if the matter is looked at more closely, since the advent of the qualifiers, Tyrone have won Ulster 5 times and lost 3 quarter finals. Dublin have won Leinster 6 times in the same period and played in 3 semi finals. Thus it is no longer any advantage going by the stats to win your province. It is probably best to go out of your province at the semi final stage

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 01/08/2010 20:26:08    731964

In May on one of my posts I said "Tyrone will beat Antrim, if they want to" and many said that was stupid.

Alas not. Provincial crowns such as Leinster and Ulster which involve a.few games are for counties who have not won anything for a while, not for serious Sam contenders.

This year Louth had their heart set on winning Leinster, not Sam. The last two years Tyrone cruised through Ulster and coupled with the advance of time were not battle hardened when they met any sort of opposition.

In Connacht the title is well nigh meaningless to Galway and Mayo, and in Munster only Limerick crave the title.

So the provincial title is now a bit like the FA cup say in soccer, ok for smaller clubs to win, but not worth a lot if you are aspiring to European success.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 01/08/2010 20:26:27    731965

There is a point in winning your Province as it is something to be proud of!........unless you are Meath!!

Regards,

Snufalufagus.....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 01/08/2010 21:47:29    732179

I'd agree that there is pride in winning the province. Louth's and Monaghan's disappointment reflect this. At the same time there is little reward for winning. Initially when the system was brought in they wanted to give home advantage to the winning province as a carrot for winning but it was voted against in congress.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8858 - 02/08/2010 10:11:33    732290

I am very anti the provincial structure in hurling, but less so in football. I think its fine, we just had some unusual results over the weekend and whats the harm in that?

abhainn (Galway) - Posts: 1000 - 02/08/2010 10:47:59    732344

playing more matches toughes up teams, winning a provincial championship means sitting around while eveyone one else gets form, match fitness and momentum. Both hurling and football need to be 32 (+2/3 including sydney) county knock out comps

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4649 - 02/08/2010 10:49:53    732350

Well winning the Connacht title meant a lot to Roscommon and will have strenghtened their belief; in the same sense you can see how losing it affected Sligo, who never got into the Down game afterwards. It meant a lot to Louth, Limerick and Monaghan too so both for upping the game of smaller teams and tradition I would like it to stay.

As for advantage of winning the provinicial title and going onto winning Sam, teams like Kerry and Tyrone have done it both ways. You are either good enough or not. Some years playing every week in the qualifiers can really help a team find their best 15 and of course there is nothing like winning games to improve belief and method but other years, it can be tiring.

kerrykerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1779 - 02/08/2010 11:09:15    732388

There is no way 4 teams should come through the qualifiers. If only 1 team came through well others might not be too keen to go down that road and the provincial championship would mean something again. 15 YEARS AGO the provincials winners were in an all ireland semi.So why should provincial winners now be in a quarter just to facilatate 4 teams that have already been knock out of the same championship?

richiej (UK) - Posts: 1430 - 02/08/2010 11:19:50    732404

benjyyy
County: Donegal
Posts: 195

At this stage last year people were saying that your own county might catch out Cork because of all the matches you were playing and the long lay off that they had. When Cork beat ye, they changed their tune. All of a sudden, Donegal were exhausted and Cork were well-rested and fresh. This weekend, my county wasn't good enough to win the quarterfinal, and I'm not going to blame the system for that. We knew what we had to do and didn't do it.


omaghredhand

This is the first Dublin have come through the qualifiers and got to a semi-final. Tyrone have been beaten a few times when they've gone down the qualifier route, by Laois and Mayo for example. It's not a foolproof route for All-Ireland contenders

The_Real_IA (Meath) - Posts: 133 - 02/08/2010 12:53:45    732556