Whether or not the weekend's game should be replayed I dont know.
But I have said for several years that umpires should be replaced with young, up-and-coming referees, they dont have to be from the county of the main referee (but it would be good if they were) but such referees would be willing (and better placed than the referees) to call square balls, 3rd man tackles, off the ball incidents and most of the things which umpires currently miss. Also they would most likely have better eyesight than most current umpires.
Also would be the first chance for them to experience the big game before they are thrown straight into the cauldron in the middle of the park.
It would hardly cost the GAA that much to do either.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 13/07/2010 13:15:25    706821

Not a bad idea at all. Rarely do we see an umpire call a square ball, but if there is an off the ball incident 30 metres away they are quick to call the refs attention. How often do we see umpires glued to the posts?? Surely a bit of movement to cover the angle of shots is required?? We can blame Meath ,The ref blah blah but the umpires were totaly at fault . Neither consulted with each other. Both should have spoken to the ref. Poor decisions have been costing Teams for years now. Players can get banned for incidents days later through video evidence..How can those decisions be overturned but this one cant??..The Louth County Board should withdraw from the Championship in protest and hit the GRAB ALL ASSOCIATION where it hurts...... in the pocket..That would be one sure way of stopping the GAA from passing the buck like their doing now.. Its not Meaths problem..ITS THE GAAs incompetent officials that create messes like this.

richiej (UK) - Posts: 1430 - 13/07/2010 13:32:33    706874

Some of you boys would do well to learn the rules of the games before giving out about others. An umpire CANNOT give a squareball, repeat CANNOT give a squareball. Secondly, the goal was a technical foul on Sunday and an umpire CANNOT decide on a technical foul. If the referee wishes to consult the umpire about a technical foul then this is up to him, however an umpire CANNOT call the referee's attention to a technical foul. Bothh of you make some good points but then wreck them with absurdities after

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 13/07/2010 13:45:30    706906

The best post there has been on this whole episode so far. When u think of it, how are umpires at this level not refs anyway, it boggles the mind!!

jaffacake (Meath) - Posts: 720 - 13/07/2010 13:48:56    706918

omaghredhand, who was I giving out about in my post? I was merely making the case for improving officiating at our games. Also if umpiers cant call these decisions then call them assistant referees or goal attendants or whatever you want. If it means a slight modification in the rulebook it is hardly going to cause that big a stir, especially if it results in less of the sort of incident that happened on Sunday.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 13/07/2010 14:20:57    707011

omaghredhand yes umpires have signals like scracthing there head etc if ref does not notice square ball.

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 13/07/2010 14:31:27    707033

Great idea Pinkie, makes sense, thus it will not happen.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 13/07/2010 15:17:41    707152

Fair enough Omagh so then change the rules to ensure that umpires CAN give decisions on these incidents. At the minute we might as well have 4 cardboard cut outs standing at the two ends of the pitch.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9818 - 13/07/2010 15:34:46    707181

This is just typical kneejerk reaction stuff guys. Replace umpires with referees? What difference will it make? I am an umpire with a referee on the national panel. He has a choice of 8 guys each week. All of us are current GAA players, with two qualified referees and an intercounty player, and the oldest one of us is 29 years of age. Movement is not a problem for us. We know the rules inside out, even though the only rules we can call are if the ball crosses the line, a 45 and off-the-ball incidents the referee hasn't spotted. We have to do courses annually and believe me, the vast,vast majority of umpires take their role very seriously. I fail to see how having referees as umpires will make a huge difference. John Bannon was on the radio yesterday and he said that referees do not necessarily make good umpires. Also,it'd be a logistical nightmare. Appointing four extra referees for a game from all over the country just does not make sense.
95% of games run off without any problems week in,week out. A few human errors and we want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Let's cool the jets here and be realistic about the whole thing.

Trenchman (Waterford) - Posts: 114 - 13/07/2010 15:40:32    707198

they would most likely have better eyesight than most current umpires.

A quite frankly ridiculous statement.

Trenchman (Waterford) - Posts: 114 - 13/07/2010 15:41:40    707202

Ulsterman i tell my umpires to scratch there heads if i miss square ball so in a way they can call it.

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 13/07/2010 15:49:02    707220

omaghredhand yes umpires have signals like scracthing there head etc if ref does not notice square ball.

Therefore breaking the rules?

I fully agree that umpires should be able to call a squareball, if the stupid rule that it is, is to be retained. Secondly for intercounty games I do agree that referees should be used and should to an extent have the same power as the ref in terms of advising of fouls

Pinkie, I misread your post, apologies

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 13/07/2010 15:51:35    707225

So umpires cannot call the refs attention to an incident but can tell him if he asks? Thats a smart rule alright!

Imagine if it was the same in other walks of life:

Judge: So you did see the murder?
Witness: Yes
Judge: Why didnt you tell the police?
Witness: They didnt ask!

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1429 - 13/07/2010 16:03:45    707270

omaghredhand not breaking the rules it is common sense to have something like that.

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 13/07/2010 16:14:54    707301

The umpires were not the problem the last day.They didn't give the goal, it was only when the ref came in to tell them to wave the flag that they gave the goal.

maigh_eo (Mayo) - Posts: 1346 - 13/07/2010 16:25:11    707339

What other sport tampers with its rules like the gaa does. Each year there is some sort of experiment on some rule. All this is doing is leading to a lack of consistancy in officials through all the rule confusion. Rules for the league rushed past congress for the Championship. Can we not have a rule freeze for say 3-5 years and give both players and officials time and confidence to adapt..

richiej (UK) - Posts: 1430 - 13/07/2010 16:26:09    707346

benjyyy
Umpires can call the referees attention to an off-the-ball incident but cannot award a goal or a square ball.
Referee can ask their opinion on a goal or square ball incident but the decision ultimately lies with the referee.

Trenchman (Waterford) - Posts: 114 - 13/07/2010 16:30:32    707364

Trenchman, that sounds reasonable and your referee sound like the exception rather than the rule but surely there are 4 young referees capable and willing to do the job rather than friends of the referee? A lot of umpires are 50-60 years of age, white or grey headed and not fit for the job. I am not criticising umpires directly (if the referee has to bring them it has to be done) but merely the system which has them there in the first place.

"95% of games run off without any problems week in,week out. A few human errors and we want to throw the baby out with the bathwater"

Nonsense. Week in week out we have problems with umpires not knowing whether a point was scored, looking to the other umpire apparently for inspiration or just taking a guess as to whether it was a point or not. Why didnt the umpire at Thurles on Sunday position himself behind Ben O'Connors line ball and watch the flight of the ball?

It's happening week in week out and in almost ever game so it is not just an isolated incident, merely that some get more media space than others.

Hardly a logistical nightmare either - if the referee has to bring 4 umpires one way or other it hardly matters if they are clubmates or other referees does it? If it means giving them a few bob for missing out on refereeing a club game so be it.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 13/07/2010 16:33:53    707378

benjyyy
Umpires can call the referees attention to an off-the-ball incident but cannot award a goal or a square ball.
Referee can ask their opinion on a goal or square ball incident but the decision ultimately lies with the referee.

I know the decision is ultimately with the referee but thats no different from soccer, and rarely do you see a ref overrule an offside decision or a foul signalled by a linesman. Why? Because the linesmen are in the best position to spot these infringements, just like umpires when it comes to square balls and fouls in the goalmouth area.

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1429 - 13/07/2010 16:48:22    707413

Pinkie.

There was an umpiring issue in only two games over the weekend.Cork v Waterford - fairly blatant mistake and pretty unforgivable.I'll give you that one.
Louth v Meath - I would class it as weak umpiring not to challenge Sluddens decision but under the letter of the law, the umpire acted correctly.I know this is hard to stomach, but sadly it is a fact.The umpire cannot decide if it is a goal or not.I didn't see any mention in the papers or on The Sunday Game of any other issues.Naturally there were questionable refereeing decisions,but that's a separate point entirely!

The basic thrust of my argument is that having a referee on the post will be no more accurate in his calling of a score than a regular umpire.That is the most important part of our job and what we spend virtually all our time doing.

Trenchman (Waterford) - Posts: 114 - 13/07/2010 16:58:48    707447