omaghredhand. ha ha ha lol. lol.
fair play ... its big ian in disguise lads , you are some boy omagh redhand.

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 15/07/2010 15:22:19    710397

It's well known that a number of dissidents are in fact ex members of the PIRA or at the very least PIRA members have been passing on their expertise to the dissidents. You just have to look at the use of a Culvert bomb last week in South Armagh, a PIRA classic. It does expose the PIRA as nothing more than common criminals themselves and not the heroic freedom fighters some would have you believe they are

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 15/07/2010 15:58:41    710467

PomeroyPlunkett
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1043

710467 It's well known that a number of dissidents are in fact ex members of the PIRA or at the very least PIRA members have been passing on their expertise to the dissidents. You just have to look at the use of a Culvert bomb last week in South Armagh, a PIRA classic. It does expose the PIRA as nothing more than common criminals themselves and not the heroic freedom fighters some would have you believe they are

As the dissidents evolved from PIRA, it is quiet a moot point suggesting that their ranks contain ex members of PIRA. Lets not forget that not all PIRA members agreed with the peace process or decommissioning. I think that it is an invalid comparison between both groups, and I would have expected a bit more reasoning from a scholar such as yourself. There is no real comparison between the groups other than their modus operandi, which is in fact the MO of virtually every guerilla group in the world. At this point and previously I suggested that dissidents are financially motivated, and I stand by that. I do not believe that PIRA were financially motivated and although misguided and reckless at times, the absolute belief in the struggle and what it was to achieve is worlds apart from the concepts of the dissidents. Lets not forget as well as this, that there were men who were engaged in their own war for whatever length of time, and although not financially rewarded, they were looked after to an extent. The Peace Process has benefited some and left behind others. If I was an explosives expert in PIRA, and I was now left on the dole or whatever, I could honestly say that I would consider "selling" my expertise as well. This is not to say it is correct, but I think that the two are incomparable in outlook, as well as operating in considerably different climates politically speaking.

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 15/07/2010 16:56:14    710594

'The Peace Process has benefited some and left behind others. If I was an explosives expert in PIRA, and I was now left on the dole or whatever, I could honestly say that I would consider "selling" my expertise as well.'

Which would indicate that they are financially motivated and thus it isn't an absolute belief in the struggle. So to clear it up when these men were in the PIRA they were freedom fighters who were all about the heroic struggle. These same men are now financially motivated criminals. I like how the horrific violence they inflicted upon thousands of people was merely misguided and reckless, don't be too harsh on them now

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 15/07/2010 17:16:36    710638

they say in the papers that they are selling their expertise in the south

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 15/07/2010 17:37:40    710683

PomeroyPlunkett
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1044

710638 'The Peace Process has benefited some and left behind others. If I was an explosives expert in PIRA, and I was now left on the dole or whatever, I could honestly say that I would consider "selling" my expertise as well.'

Which would indicate that they are financially motivated and thus it isn't an absolute belief in the struggle. So to clear it up when these men were in the PIRA they were freedom fighters who were all about the heroic struggle. These same men are now financially motivated criminals. I like how the horrific violence they inflicted upon thousands of people was merely misguided and reckless, don't be too harsh on them now
15/07/2010 17

Again a deliberate miscontruence of my post and a failure to consider my point. With regards to financial motivation, how many volunteers (if you know any) do you know who are well off. I can't see that men would give up their lives on hunger strike, in jail and on active service without full conviction in what they were doing. I would be as fond of a pound as any man, but I would not jeopardise my life for it. Dissident republicans, do not generally take on the police or have had to take on the green army or SAS, and I can assure you that most of them wouldn't. What you also miss, is that the main PIRA campaign was waged in the 70's and 80's and early 90's. It is quite plausible then that most of the men involved at this point are dead, too old, or in ill health to be involved in anything these days. My point in relation to the EO is hypothetical and for you to take a literal meaning is somewhat disconcerting. The point of that part of the post, is that there are people who are not benefiting from a peace that they did not sign up for. With regard to the violence, again you are being quite disingenous. We have had the discussion before and I could not be pushed to start using emotive catchphrases etc at this point. I also find it quite strange that someone who did not live through the troubles can claim at such a tender age as yourself to be a self appointed expert on the situation

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 15/07/2010 18:14:03    710743

omaghredhand,

Yer statistics on crime figures are gas lad!.....absolutely no consideration given to: population, police to citizen, etc!!

The north is still a place where two communities are badly divided, where there is the PSNI and still the local thugs who consider themselves the lawmakers of their community!!
Ehh, of course there is less drug crime in the north!.....the paramilitaries are the only ones who control it!
Ehh, of course there is less ordinary criminality in the north!.....the paramilitaries will put physical manners on you whereas down here where we have a proper civilisation the Gardai are not allowed to do the same!!....Got it!!

Met a lady recently up north, who I reckoned was a protestant lady and she used to live in Dublin but had to move back up to Belfast as she had lost her job! I said to her: "I bet you dont miss the traffic down there in the mornings anyway?!" She answered me: "I'd give anything for it again!" I said: "Do you not prefer being back at home?" She said: "No, I loved Dublin, you dont get any of the hassle down there that you do up here. People just leave you alone!".

Ehhh, so thank you, my beloved city that cherishes everyone!.......Utopia indeed!!

You can keep yer fortified province of guarded people so!!......as a mate of mine calls ye: 'The tell em nuttins!!'.

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 15/07/2010 18:52:02    710784

If I was an explosives expert in PIRA, and I was now left on the dole or whatever, I could honestly say that I would consider "selling" my expertise as well.

dear god....sickening stuff altogether

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4649 - 15/07/2010 19:15:40    710819

Excellent posting Omaghredhand, some very valid points.
The issue of criminality was decided upon by the people of Fermanagh - South Tyrone 29 years ago.

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1794 - 15/07/2010 19:25:34    710830

Snufalufagus
County: Dublin
Posts: 2101

710784 omaghredhand,

Yer statistics on crime figures are gas lad!.....absolutely no consideration given to: population, police to citizen, etc!!

The north is still a place where two communities are badly divided, where there is the PSNI and still the local thugs who consider themselves the lawmakers of their community!!
Ehh, of course there is less drug crime in the north!.....the paramilitaries are the only ones who control it!
Ehh, of course there is less ordinary criminality in the north!.....the paramilitaries will put physical manners on you whereas down here where we have a proper civilisation the Gardai are not allowed to do the same!!....Got it!!

Met a lady recently up north, who I reckoned was a protestant lady and she used to live in Dublin but had to move back up to Belfast as she had lost her job! I said to her: "I bet you dont miss the traffic down there in the mornings anyway?!" She answered me: "I'd give anything for it again!" I said: "Do you not prefer being back at home?" She said: "No, I loved Dublin, you dont get any of the hassle down there that you do up here. People just leave you alone!".

Ehhh, so thank you, my beloved city that cherishes everyone!.......Utopia indeed!!

You can keep yer fortified province of guarded people so!!......as a mate of mine calls ye: 'The tell em nuttins!!'.

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snuffy, as I stated earlier, this was in response to a poster who characterised the North as the Wild West and not a direct bash at the south. I also made mention of the population on a second post if you had bothered to read it. The population in the south is 2.5 times approx that in the north. Refering specifically to cases of public disorder that the aforementioned poster alluded to, NI offences in 2009, 1381, ROI offences, 49155!!! This can hardly be attributed to the double population nor indeed, 1.5 less policeman per thousand. You also make a point that up here we have two communities still divided. This makes the figures in my opinion worse for the south, as the south has been at peace since the civil war!!

As regards the drugs problem. We have paramilitaries, you have organised crime gangs. According to some they are the same thing so that negates that argument. With regards punishment beatings, with the current re-offending rate it would appear that this does nothing to stop crime. Joyriding is at an all time high in West Belfast.

I also seem to remember a thread not so long ago about Dublin and the dangers of it even in the city centre during the day. I can safely say that I have never been accosted by a junkie in Belfast at any time of the day but I was accosted in Dublin at 10.00 inthe morning just off O'Connell street, and we still haven't mentioned Limerick. I am under no illusion that we have still plenty to do up here, but I will not accept lectures or rubbish statements from anyone in the South about how safe and how utopian "their" country is.

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 15/07/2010 19:25:57    710832

bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 2256

710819 If I was an explosives expert in PIRA, and I was now left on the dole or whatever, I could honestly say that I would consider "selling" my expertise as well.

dear god....sickening stuff altogether

Again you take one sentence completely out of context. Consider the statement and its relevance within the whole post and if you've anything constructive to add please feel free

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 15/07/2010 19:28:20    710836

Oh that old chestnut, because I didn't live through the majority of the Troubles I'm unable to have an opinion on it. Presumably then no-one is in a position to talk about events before 1900 as they wouldn't have been alive then. I thought more of you than to have such a simplistic and downright stupid opinion than that Omagh. Do you view Loyalists, who also carried out their actions under the threat of jail and death, with the same respect as Republicans then? Also the fact that you are unwilling to use emotive catchphrases as you put it to describe the Troubles reflects awfully on you I must say

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 15/07/2010 19:52:21    710868

PomeroyPlunkett
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1045

710868 Oh that old chestnut, because I didn't live through the majority of the Troubles I'm unable to have an opinion on it. Presumably then no-one is in a position to talk about events before 1900 as they wouldn't have been alive then. I thought more of you than to have such a simplistic and downright stupid opinion than that Omagh. Do you view Loyalists, who also carried out their actions under the threat of jail and death, with the same respect as Republicans then? Also the fact that you are unwilling to use emotive catchphrases as you put it to describe the Troubles reflects awfully on you I must say

I did not say that you could not have an opinion on it, merely your arrogance on certain points, is I would find incredible considering you did not live through the most of it. Your view is somewhat a simplistic black/white one, which certainly does not do justice to what is/was a considerably complex problem. I also refrain generally from calling someones opinion stupid, another act of misplaced arrogance. With regard to Loyalists, the issue is yet more complex. I accept that there were those within the Loyalist sphere that did indeed believe that it was incumbent on them to defend their people from real or perceived threat. I would also suggest that like some members of PIRA there were bigots as well as in some cases criminals, although I would also contend that the Loyalist ranks had considerably more of these than PIRA. I would further intimate that the threat of death or jail was subsatntially less for Loyalists than Republicans given the thinking and actions of the security forces of the time. Finally with regards the well worn out platitudes and cliches regards the troubles, they have all been said and done to death and I have done so on many times, thus I find little relevance or requirement to dole them out again.

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 15/07/2010 20:48:33    710953

Your silence speaks volumes. I tend not to differentiate between the numerous groups, I'm just glad you recognise members of the PIRA were bigots and criminals and therefore the whole organisation could be classed as sectarian. Of course it's impossible to argue this isn't the case when you look at the overwhelming evidence. With regards your earlier point that you feel Bad Monkey has taken out of context I have read the post again. You think passing on knowledge of how to kill and maim in order to make some money is justifiable. Is that not the point you were making?

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 15/07/2010 21:05:07    710978

omaghredhand
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2023

710836 bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 2256

710819 If I was an explosives expert in PIRA, and I was now left on the dole or whatever, I could honestly say that I would consider "selling" my expertise as well.

dear god....sickening stuff altogether

Again you take one sentence completely out of context. Consider the statement and its relevance within the whole post and if you've anything constructive to add please feel free

Oh dear..omagh you've hit rock bottom with that comment

tomaoo7 (Dublin) - Posts: 5896 - 15/07/2010 21:11:35    710986

pomeroyplunkett.
that last post to omaghredhand was out of order , u owe that man a apology .
do u just realised what u have just said. totally wrong u are .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 15/07/2010 21:19:27    710999

Omagh's a big boy Ta, I'm sure he can fight his own battles

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 15/07/2010 21:32:59    711020

tomaoo7.
read the mans post again , u are just jumping on the bandwagon , read his whole post , go on its not really that hard.
u and plunkett and badhun , trying to zero in on someone [ and put words in their mouth ] when u know right well that was not what he meant.

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 15/07/2010 21:33:12    711021

plunkett.
yes he is big enough , not my point though , u still owe him a apology .
what u said is wrong .. now u be BIG enough to admit u are just stirring for the sake of it .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 15/07/2010 21:40:16    711033

'If I was an explosives expert in PIRA, and I was now left on the dole or whatever, I could honestly say that I would consider "selling" my expertise as well.'

What did he mean when he said that then Ta?

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 15/07/2010 21:44:48    711037