artisan u are correct .
were angelplay got your post slightly mixed up.
artisan was spot on in his response to u.

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 03/07/2010 09:26:42    694792

And they would be right every time my rebel county friend.

Does that not get a bit tedious? Seems you can't discuss any world event without someone piping up 'but but but what about The Famine/Cromwell/Tuskar Rock'.

Its like watching a load of people play Top Trumps: Mass Murder Special Edition.

whereangelsplay (Cork) - Posts: 240 - 03/07/2010 09:42:26    694796

whereangelsplay
County: Cork
Posts: 56

694796

And they would be right every time my rebel county friend.

Does that not get a bit tedious? Seems you can't discuss any world event without someone piping up 'but but but what about The Famine/Cromwell/Tuskar Rock'.

Its like watching a load of people play Top Trumps: Mass Murder Special Edition.

Well the thing is there are wind up merchants on this forum who love nothing better than to antagonise those with a nationalist sentiment. You see this is a GAA forum, and Irish nationalism goes hand in hand with the GAA, always has, so there are bound to be people with pro-united Ireland aspirations posting here. And thats perfectly acceptable. However some posters love nothing better than to come on here and post rubbish about the glory of the British empire, just to get a reaction. And sometimes they do. But no matter how they would like to re-write history, most of us see through them.

Scruffy2Donut (Cavan) - Posts: 1112 - 03/07/2010 10:10:06    694803

my god i do not believe the posts here by some people its is very distressing we all suffered at the hands of the british but just think what it would have been like if the nazis were here and we do have blood on our hands regarding the jews and letting nazis hide out in this country after the war , face facts this is not about irish struggle against the british this is about good against evil which thank god evil was defeated

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 03/07/2010 12:00:46    694863

Well the thing is there are wind up merchants on this forum who love nothing better than to antagonise those with a nationalist sentiment. You see this is a GAA forum, and Irish nationalism goes hand in hand with the GAA, always has, so there are bound to be people with pro-united Ireland aspirations posting here. And thats perfectly acceptable. However some posters love nothing better than to come on here and post rubbish about the glory of the British empire, just to get a reaction. And sometimes they do. But no matter how they would like to re-write history, most of us see through them.

That's all fine. But are you telling me that the view 'Britain were right to make a stand against Nazism' can be regarded as wind-up material? Do some people on here really see a fairly bland view like that and think 'Glorification of Britain!! After everything they did! Outrageous!!'?

I don't know if badmonkey is trying to get a rise out of people on here but if that's all it takes, it must be like shooting fish in a barrel.

whereangelsplay (Cork) - Posts: 240 - 03/07/2010 12:21:57    694886

anyone who has a different opinion is a WUM - the typical lazy response from the usual nationalists here

britain and other countries stood and fought against the nazis, thank god they did

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4678 - 03/07/2010 12:31:00    694898

Scruffy2Donut
County: Cavan
Posts: 582

694803
whereangelsplay
County: Cork
Posts: 56

694796

And they would be right every time my rebel county friend.

Does that not get a bit tedious? Seems you can't discuss any world event without someone piping up 'but but but what about The Famine/Cromwell/Tuskar Rock'.

Its like watching a load of people play Top Trumps: Mass Murder Special Edition.

Well the thing is there are wind up merchants on this forum who love nothing better than to antagonise those with a nationalist sentiment. You see this is a GAA forum, and Irish nationalism goes hand in hand with the GAA, always has, so there are bound to be people with pro-united Ireland aspirations posting here. And thats perfectly acceptable. However some posters love nothing better than to come on here and post rubbish about the glory of the British empire, just to get a reaction.




So you support British imperialism in Afghanistan and Ieraq to get a reaction?

Thanks for explaining that you were being a WUM.

When we reclaim Ireland for the Irish, we will remember you and your imperialist loving ilk.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 03/07/2010 13:06:43    694926

01/07/2010 21:53:18
Scruffy2Donut
County: Cavan
Posts: 582

693858 patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 8636



I was a History teacher.

Were you? So then you left to join the fourth international was it?
______________________

Is that a cricket term ?
Fourth test match ?

madasbutter (Mayo) - Posts: 872 - 03/07/2010 13:19:45    694938

patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 8644


So you support British imperialism in Afghanistan and Ieraq to get a reaction?

Thanks for explaining that you were being a WUM.

Any chance you could point out where I said I supported BRITISH imperialism in Ieraq?

Scruffy2Donut (Cavan) - Posts: 1112 - 03/07/2010 13:40:07    694948

hipster
County: Dublin
Posts: 1479

694543 yes stupid posting by yo hurling spuds did you ever actually read what happened in them concentration camps , you were lucky if the nazis shot you in the street like a dog and not bring you to a camp , i will support britain in this because they did stand up for the free world , as for the jews yes the irish state refused visas and entry into ireland and a lot of these people died in the camps that would have been saved if we let them in but de valara did not want this

Hipster don't say things without backing it up.
1) Where is the evidence that nazis hid here after the war?
2) Where is the evidence that the irish state knowingly allowed known nazis to flee here?
3) Where is the evidence that the irish state denied visas to jewish people?
4) Where is the evidence that the irish state denied these visas while knowing the extent of the persecution of the jews on the continent?
5) I'm no fan of Dev but please back up your statement saying that he didn't want any jews in the state. Are you saying he was anti-semitic??

Always searching for a way to put down ireland. I would be alot more embarrassed about the blueshirts that went to fight in spain if you're really determined of being ashamed to be irish. It reminds me of irish society in general these days. People are almost ashamed to call themselves republicans. People are embarrassed in some way that we fought a war against out neighbours. Why isn't the future reunification of our country discussed in dáil éireann??

To come back to the point, hipster, nobody is denying the absolute evil that nazi germany inflicted on many people in Europe, jews, gypsies, communists, gays etc. The fact is that there would not have been a genocide in ireland. We would have resisted the same as many small nations did, there would have been recriminations on the civilian population but to say that we'd all have been thrown into concentration camps is lunacy. Genocide was commited on this island but not by the germans ever!!

Did I ever read what happened in concentration camps? well it's totally irrelevant but yes i did.


Cop on Hipster. Lots of good posts since my last one. Sadly, I can't help but notice that most of the lads that I strongly agree with are from the north. Sad that we've abandoned our countrymen and changed so much.

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 03/07/2010 14:15:38    694982

hurlinspuds
County: Cork
Posts: 182

Here, here well put hurlinspuds.

Scruffy2Donut (Cavan) - Posts: 1112 - 03/07/2010 14:48:02    695003

hurlnspuds, it widely known that ireland and the irish government harboured nazi war criminals. the first articles from a simple google -

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1290234.ece

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/how-devs-ireland-became-safe-haven-for-fugitive-nazis-120588.html

just because you dont know something doesnt make it untrue

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4678 - 03/07/2010 14:58:23    695014

bad monkey.
Both articles refer to the same thing. I don't read the times as it is pretty conservative and at times has been anti irish. Note that nowhere does it say that these people (who where so few that they're actually all named in the article) were actually granted asylum by the irish state. The first one left and lived in America for 40 years afterwards!!! Do you think argentina should be ashamed as well? They also accepted masses of people after the war, some of whom were war criminals. I'd prefer to focus on stuff that we can be proud of but i guess it's good news for people who love bad news.....negative....

A rwandan war criminal was found in belgium a few months back. does that make belgium culpable??

While I wouldn't have wanted us to remain neutral during the war looking back, i can still understand absolutely why good irish republicans didn't welcome foreign troops onto irish soil 20 years after defeating them in war. To me, we should have fought simply because fascism is an evil force and to avoid the wedge that was driven between us and northern ireland during the war years.

To say that the british fought to defend and rid europe of fascism is simplisitic to say the least. It was driven by self interest and self preservation, nothing else. Otherwise they would have intervened throughout the 30s all over europe?!?! Same for the states. They entered only after being attacked. To me the whole of europe should be ashamed of WW II as they stood by from 33 - 39 without lifting a finger against fascism.

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 03/07/2010 17:30:21    695096

bad.monkey .u.s.a.
my heart bleeds. boo hoo .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 03/07/2010 18:42:37    695132

enjoyed your post hurlingspuds, i agree with alot of what you say but maybe you only had a chance to skim at the article. a few points you say -

Note that nowhere does it say that these people (who where so few that they're actually all named in the article) were actually granted asylum by the irish state.

but the very first line of the independent is - "NOTORIOUS Nazi war criminals were given safety in Ireland after the war and lived here under assumed names sanctioned by Eamon de Valera's government."

the article mentions a few times that the irish givernment gave them asylum and refused asylum for jews. There are offical government records on the nazis living in ireland. Anti-semitism was widespread in europe at the time, why would ireland be any different. Do you know about

You also asked whether i think argentina should also be ashamed for harbouring nazi criminals - yes absolutely, any country who harboured these people and denied justice to the millions of families who lost loved ones should be ashamed. The argentinian government had expressed their admiration of germany for their stance on jews and anti-communists ideals. After the war they harboured thousands of known nazi, estimated go between 8-10 thousand. Much of the missing nazi gold, ended up in argentina, it seems many nazi bought their freedom from the argentinian government, perhaps the same happened in ireland.

You also asked that because a rwandan war criminal was found in belgium recently, does that make them culpable? well they knew he was a war criminal and still granted him asylum then yes they are culpable.

As regarding 'positive' and 'negative' history and you wanting to focus on the positive parts of irish history, thats fair enough. i dont make any distiction between the two, history is history good or bad and it is important to look at the bad parts so as not to make the same mistakes again. the postive parts of irish history have been widely examined, its the darker sides that have been glossed over by republican state and their education system which is why they are of interest as more files are released, hopefully the files on Andrija Artukovic will be released soon.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4678 - 04/07/2010 10:28:38    695413

Im anti-Israeli and proud to be and that makes me anti-semitic then so be it. What that nation are doing is sick and goes to show what an injust world we live that they are let get away with it.
When are the trails for the British war crimes, the American war crimes and Russian war crimes????, they have killed so many people in the name of "freedom" its sick.
History is made up by the Victors never forget that

freetaker1 (Limerick) - Posts: 758 - 04/07/2010 10:38:33    695419

Patrique your the history teacher, do you think you could explain the difference between evidence and opinions of some partisan journalists to our friend badmonkey? No need to get too in depth, primary, secondary and all that good stuff, just keep it basic so he/she might understand.

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1795 - 05/07/2010 15:43:16    696920

I appreciate every post on this thread, and don't agree or disagree with anyone 100%! But, I think we must remember that the mentality of most the Irish people at that time (1940) meant that joining the allies was not even a consideration! Ireland at the time was struggling for survival, and Europe was a very far away place. Most Irish people back then were very Conservative, Catholic, mostly rural and not very well informed. Many Irishmen fought alongside the British, and a large percentage of the US armed forces were Irish and Irish American. Yes, the Irish did fight in WW11!

Bigapple (Kerry) - Posts: 495 - 06/07/2010 13:39:31    698021

what if hitler had invaded?


Some sort of disco?

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 06/07/2010 14:16:09    698103