hurling dub you are on about criminals , i am on about people falling into addictions and living on the street as i said but be for the grace of god it could be anyone of us

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 03/06/2010 21:00:53    667089

Cavan Slasher,

"However do not come the heavy-handed route of your last post again because i will not take that tone from you or anyone else !!".....Gas!....Tells me he bets I wouldnt say something to his face and then comes out with this lark!....Gas craic!....Ditto Cavan Slasher!.....Ditto lad!

Look, you didnt even answer the questions I asked but rather wrapped it up in a catch all statement and you accuse me of generalisations!
Let me ask you again to read back over my long post and give me a specific answer as to what to do with each one OK!
Your answer will tell me alot!....I look forward to it!

What do you propose to do with the lad with 54 convictions who laughs at the cameras leavings court and gives us the 'fingers'?.....Dont dodge the question lad!
What do you propose we do with the beggar who complains he cant get a job, but then is offered one and doesnt turn up?.....Dont dodge the question lad!....(last time your 'dodge the question' answer was: "one homeless guy doesn't take a job and Snuffy tars them all with the one brush!). I want a specific answer as to what we should do with such a lad!.....Give me an answer!
Why does prostitution exist when thousands of other who would not be entitled to as much benefit survive well on the dole while prositutes feel the need to go out and sell their bodies to survive?......Dont dodge the question AGAIN, by simple asking me about the clients!

So Cavan Slasher, stop dodging my questions as to what we should do with the specific examples I have given you for the second time!

The reason you dodge the questions is because you cannot give a satisfactory answer, because your answer is one of a pandering liberal!.....Keep on being a victim to these crooks I have listed above Cavan Slasher! Im sure they love to see you coming!

Answer the Questions!!!!!!!

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 03/06/2010 22:05:28    667178

Right, its very easy to dismiss arguments against this as "leftie-liberal etc' or for it as 'right-wing, conservative etc' but that makes a mockery of the debate. People aren't liberal on everything or conservative on everything......its a ridiculous way to be, why make a decision on an issue before you've heard which you do if you pigeonhole yourself or others with these labels. - Great popint Mes Amis, couldnt have put it better myself.

Snuffy and Slasher, yous both make good arguments. Its a good read this thread.

Derry_ledd (Derry) - Posts: 2093 - 04/06/2010 09:23:14    667201

Snuffy,

You are begining to sound like a cross between Pol Pot and Victor Meldrew but however !!

1. The beggar -- like anyone else in this day and age if they refuse work i would halve their dole i.e just give them enough to survive so that they would soon get the message that if you don't want to work then the state will not keep you in drink/gambling etc money. I would prefer to give them nothing at all but we cannot do that !!

2. The lad with 54 convictions -- There are plenty of them around. Go back to previous threads on this topic and you will see that i proposed making them work in bogs cutting turf for distribution to the elderly, in forests cutting firewood, painting road markings etc with adequate supervision. Not in bamboo stockades or not put down. They should get adequate handouts for their work. They are not sub-human and many of them might realise that they actually can be valued members of society as they pay off their debt to that society. This actually works in some other countries. Even the chain-gangs in some U.S. states have successes and in some Scandanavian countries jail is a last option because they work off their debts to society !! I actually worked on a Community Service scheme with the Probation Service for a short time with lads who had a Court Community Service Order and they painted old peoples dwellings on a Saturday. It actually works !! Jail should be for those who refuse to take part and as i said previously made rough for them so that they would soon get the message !!

3. Prostitution -- The worlds oldest profession. Mary Magdalene was the first recorded in the bible and the Man above even forgave her, unlike you Snuffy !! Women (and indeed some men) go into this profession for many different reasons but mainly because they have always felt undervalued by society. It is a crime here but not in many other countries. While i do not like the profession it is obvious that it will never cease so it should be regulated and they should be on a register and get regular medical checks. To me it degraded women but it is their choice and if they are not claiming dole etc then so be it. They were not all born with a mother like yours or mine Snuffy and did not get the guidance we got. My solution is to de-criminalise prostitution but prosecute their clients and you would get results !!

Now Snuffy nobody on H.S. in my belief dodges questions !! If you had kept up to date with the threads on here you would have seen everybodys answers. You are somewhat inclined to believe your own hype but that does not cut the mustard at all with me. There are no "little Hitlers" on here who will try to bully me and get away with it. I might not have the education of some but that is through not being able to afford it and not because i don't have the brainpower of some !

So now Snuffy let me throw it all right back at you. Have YOU any REALISTIC ways to solve the issues and not just some mad Pol Pot type ravings !! Something that will actually work for the betterment of society and not off the wall solutions. I also like the way your mother raised you because she seems just like my mother although she could have used the wooden spoon with a little more power like mine did !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 04/06/2010 10:27:19    667248

This was posted as a seperate thread but has the subject matter is the same it has been brought in here.

Hillstreetblue

04/06/2010

11:39

Are people proud to call Dublin their capital?

Just a question to all non Dubs here.

Are ye proud of Dublin as a capital city?

A lot of posts on this thread from non dubs were very positive about the city and that was nice to see So, as Irish people are ye proud to say Dublin is your capital city? And what do you make or Corks claim to be the "real capital" ? Please leave all parochial GAA attitiudes outside and take this as a purely non-sporting question.

Administrator (None) - Posts: 535 - 04/06/2010 12:08:54    667381

Hillstreet dub. The answer to that question is yes I am proud of Dublin as capital of Ireland. A great city. Im actually working in Dublin temporarily and it seems to be a good standard of living here too.

As for Cork, i dont think anyone outside cork actually believes that, so they can keep on saying it, but its only themselves they are fooling.

Derry_ledd (Derry) - Posts: 2093 - 04/06/2010 12:13:44    667391

Dublin is a great capital. Has been and always will be. The Cork thing is strange, and surely only a bit of knowing irony. Belfast is the 2nd city anyway.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12464 - 04/06/2010 12:29:35    667441

I havent read the thread fully so wont make a comment yet. Just one question. Cavan Slasher, where did you see this about a prisoner costing 80,000 pre annum to keep? Im not saying your facts are wrong, I just find the figure incredible. Where does the cost come from?

jafallon (Galway) - Posts: 489 - 04/06/2010 12:41:10    667461

JaFallon,

If you type in "cost of keeping a prisoner in Portlaoise" you will see that according to the Evening Herald research it is 240,000 euro but i have taken groups of teenagers to Mountjoy, St.Pats and Dochas and the prison authorities told me that on average throughout Ireland it averages out at around 80,000 euro. Scandalous in my humble opinion as this money could be spent on educating them at an early stage and on preventative measures as i have already proposed !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 04/06/2010 12:50:32    667478

Love Dublin but it pains me somewhat to see what it has become.

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 04/06/2010 12:58:50    667494

JaFallon,

sorry that was the Irish Indo and in 2006 so its probably more now !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 04/06/2010 13:08:50    667510

Oh and by the way, dont think that the issues being discussed in this thread are unique to Dublin and Dublin only, this is a national shame, North and South.

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 04/06/2010 13:09:07    667513

Cavan Slasher,

I like that at the end about the wooden spoon! But believe me, I had 3 wooden spoons, 2 rulers, 2 hand mirrors and 1 curling tongs broken on me! (ehh the mirrors sound odd, but somehow I always managed to upset the mother when she was doing her hair!). The mother only stopped helping us with our maths homework when the maths got too hard for her to do!
Lay off the 'bully' terms lad, I always make a forceful argument, I think you are long enough on here to know that by now!
Anyway Cavan Slasher, could we be finding a compromise here?
1.The beggar: OK, so he refuses to work, so you halve his dole! But isnt the goal of your solutions to take him off the streets and make poverty history Cavan Slasher? So, if you halve his dole wont that make him beg 'twice' as hard? Hence the sights witnessed by omar that instigated this thread are not going to be dealt with will they? You say you would prefer to give him nothing at all (same here, so we aint that for off each other Cavan Slasher) but morals tell some people that they must! So Cavan slasher, halving his dole will make him beg 'twice' as hard and still sees him on the streets!....Ehh, do I have a valid point Cavan Slasher!
2.The lad with 54 convictions: Chain gangs and hard labour!!!....now your talking Cavan Slasher lad!....Now yer talking!.....Of course the chain gangs in the US work, because the prisoners now have a deterant, they never want to go back to it! PAY your debt to society! You say that the last option of jail should be made 'rough' for them so as they get the message! Cavan Slasher, is this the same 'roughness' that you would suggest makes the prisons ineffective in the first place? EG: is 'roughness' overcrowding? Is 'roughness' exposure to the drugs that you say a prisoner has more of a chance of getting hooked on while in prison than on the outside?! At least we can agree on 'hard labour' and 'roughness' for prisoners Cavan Slasher! (we really are not too far apart on this at all!!)
3.Prostitutes: Cavan Slasher this line of yours says it all really so never act as a spokesperson for prostitutes if your ever asked too! "but it is their choice and if they are not claiming dole etc then so be it!".....Cavan Slasher whatever about anything else we have discussed, this is your worst defence of them all and I think on reflection you will agree!....."Hmmm, I feel undervalued by society, I think I will become a prostitute!!" Yer clutching at straws there Cavan Slasher! And last but not least the statement that it is their choice not to claim the dole but become a prostitute instead is laughable!...."Hmmm, will I walk the streets every night putting my life on the line or will I claim the dole instead and be nice and safe in a womens refuge prehaps??....Hmmm, I will risk my life every night I think!!" Now I think you can see where you are fighting a lost cause with the prostitutes Cavan Slasher!....The bottom line here is that NO WOMAN in this day and age needs to do it anymore! Dole is fine for hundreds of thousands of people and it should be fine for them too, instead your argument says it is their "CHOICE"!!!.....In summary you are arguing in favour of someone who "CHOOSES" to risk their life every night!.....Let that argument go lad!

Some groundwork made their Cavan slasher! Point 1 you need to go back to the drawing board and revise your own flawed policy there to remove that lad from the streets given that your halving his dole. Point 2 I can agree with you on but hard labour and roughness needs to mean hard labour and roughness (If you still choose to not work then that roughness should be my bamboo cage Cavan Slasher!....Why not?....The lazy filth wont be long doing the hard labour then!)! Point 3 you have just abandoned that one by saying 'so be it' if a prostitute 'chooses' a life on the streets over a safe existance on the dole like hundreds of thousands of others!

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 04/06/2010 14:14:24    667600

Been all over the world,

Nothing beats Dublin City for the craic and the characters! (Voted Europes friendliest city by the way!)
Sure you can go to a very pretty city like Paris, Vienna or Prague. Sure you can stand in awe at the wonderful landmarks of some cities like Sydney, NYC or Washington, but never in those places have I felt like I can walk down the street and give the oul 'howya doin' head nod to the stranger in the street or turn to the stranger in the bar and quip a few words that turns into a chat!
A city like Dublin does not produce world literary giants without them having their inspiration in the streets that rared them among their own people!
Before it disappears, take the chance to look at an hour long documentary called 'The Liberties' on RTE Player! Now you can have yer London Eye, Empire State, CN Tower or Sydney Opera House all ya like, but these people make Dublin! Honest and hard working and friendly! Dublin city characters to the core!

Find below, poem by Louis McNiece (belfast man) entitled 'Dublin'! An absolute favourite of mine captures the City so well!

Grey brick upon brick,
Declamatory bronze
On somber pedestals -
O'Connell, Grattan, Moore -
And the brewery tugs and the swans
On the balustraded stream
And the bare bones of a fanlight
Over a hungry door
And the air soft on the cheek
And porter running from the taps
With a head of yellow cream
And Nelson on his pillar
Watching his world collapse.

This never was my town,
I was not born or bred
Nor schooled here and she will not
Have me alive or dead
But yet she holds my mind
With her seedy elegance,
With her gentle veils of rain
And all her ghosts that walk
And all that hide behind
Her Georgian facades -
The catcalls and the pain,
The glamour of her squalor,
The bravado of her talk.

The lights jig in the river
With a concertina movement
And the sun comes up in the morning
Like barley-sugar on the water
And the mist on the Wicklow hills
Is close, as close
As the peasantry were to the landlord,
As the Irish to the Anglo-Irish,
As the killer is close one moment
To the man he kills,
Or as the moment itself
Is close to the next moment.

She is not an Irish town
And she is not English,
Historic with guns and vermin
And the cold renown
Of a fragment of Church latin,
Of an oratorical phrase.
But oh the days are soft,
Soft enough to forget
The lesson better learnt,
The bullet on the wet
Streets, the crooked deal,
The steel behind the laugh,
The Four Courts burnt.

Fort of the Dane,
Garrison of the Saxon,
Augustan capital
Of a Gaelic nation,
Appropriating all
The alien brought,
You give me time for thought
And by a juggler's trick
You poise the toppling hour -
O greyness run to flower,
Grey stone, grey water,
And brick upon grey brick.

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 04/06/2010 14:35:23    667629

Snuffy,

Are you starting to mellow already ?? No mention of "sub-human" !! Well thats a positive !!

Point 1. The Beggar -- Will he not beg more if he gets nothing ? Are you going to starve him to death in your bamboo cage ?? There are international laws against that Lad !! I didn't read YOUR solution to him besides putting him in one of your cages !!

Point 2. 54 Convictions -- We more or less agree on this as the system at present is a joke but our prisons are full to the brim as i witnessed last week first-hand on a visit !! Hard work is a good cure !!

Point 3. The Prostitutes -- As i stated there will always be prostitutes. Measures in other countries have only driven them underground. Read up on it !! Yes prostitutes do choose a dangerous occupation !! Look what happened in Bradford and other areas of England in the 1980's and even more recently with the Yorkshire Ripper. Do you think they felt no fear when going out to ply their trade at night ?. Even happened in Dublin along the canal some years ago. While my solution may not solve the problem it is clearly better than yours because there will always be someone else to take the place of the prostitutes who are locked up, just as there is with drug dealers !! Prostitution was always the means used by a certain type of woman when she needed money quickly or to feed their children in times of scarcity. Ever hear the song about the Curragh Wrens ??

Snuffy we will agree to differ on these points as better people than us have failed to sort it out but i still think much of your earlier posts are way over the top because no civilized country would resort to the use of those solutions as they would ultimately increase the problems and alienate the population !! There is a happy medium as practiced by your mother !!

Regards.

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 04/06/2010 15:23:39    667704

Was in Dublin this morning different side of town - was at a meeting just over the south side of the Samuel Beckett bridge
Took a walk along the river afterwards - sun shining - Had a beer and some roasted hog from the market stalls - tourists walking up and down the river - boats coming up the river
plenty of eye candy on view.

All in all a rather pleasant place to be.
And to top it all off new road was open so made it from IFSC to Cavan in 90 minutes

Omar.d (Cavan) - Posts: 1141 - 04/06/2010 16:50:59    667815

Im off to Dublin tomorrow for a concert in Croker.

Orlaith (Derry) - Posts: 4282 - 04/06/2010 17:10:58    667833

Omar,

Yes indeed, i was at the Dublin docklands maritime festival on sat and it was wonderful! Got to say, I spent most of the day taking photos of Dublins latest Architecture. Convention Centre, Grand Canal Theatre, Samuel Beckett Bridge, Point Depot, across to Lansdowne Road stadium and distant photos of the Pidgeon House chimneys!.....Wonderful!!

....oh, and the eye candy! Dont tell m'lady I said that though!

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 08/06/2010 17:36:45    671203

Snuffy I was there too in my Derry jersey haha, Some good wee stalls. :)

Orlaith (Derry) - Posts: 4282 - 08/06/2010 17:39:34    671209

Cavan Slasher,

Im going to say my last bit on this matter and leave it at that!

I didnt use the term sub-human again because its obvious that it upsets some people out there!

Cavan Slasher, I want you to know that I am angry with the type of people I have described to you as 'examples' that are all too much the norm about the place these days and I want them punished extremely severely especially if they constantly throw justice and my taxes spent on trying to help them back in my face and rip me off!
I want you to realise that I (and many others on this thread it seems) deserve to see the lad with 54 convictions repay his debt to our society in a 'rough' way so he's not getting a free ride at my expense and learns a hard lesson that will never see him go back inside!

So, Cavan Slasher, maybe I am a little or a lot, over the top with my system of justice, but I am angry at these people and I want them to 'PAY' for wasting my money 'CONSTANTLY' and not giving a damn for society even though society panders to them so much! The next time that lad comes before the Judge for his 55th conviction I want him to get the sentance he deserves with hard labour and not be walking out of the court giving the 'fingers' to the TV cameras and laughing at people like me and you!

As you said before, the chain gangs in the US do seem to work, and I want to see if the lad on his 55th conviction will be laughing at the cameras when he is cleaning the beaches in chains around the country!.....Do a straw poll yerself among mates some day (and not the ones involved in the youth schemes) and see the support they will all give for seeing these parasites on a chain gang!.....Mark me on that!

Anyway, Im going to let it go now!
We are opposite ends of the scale Cavan Slasher, you are more compassionate towards these people than I am, my compassion is directed elsewhere, to people whom I think deserve every penny of my taxes and yet have it taken away from them because parasites are getting a free ride! Far from being anti elderly, sick, special needs, Cavan slasher, you will find my name embossed in a bronze tablet in Dublin Castle for the Special Olympics volunteers and I have been involved since, hence my anger at your earlier remarks! They are the people I want to get my taxes, not have it taken from them by filth on their 55th conviction!

Thats all! Gotta let this go now!

Regards,

Snufalufagus.....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 08/06/2010 18:16:39    671250