ConnollyDub
County: Dublin
Posts: 710

666567 MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 1054

665885 There are an awful lot of 'experts' on this thread passing judgement on a group in society that they know absolutely nothing about. Its all well and good to sit on your high horse when you've had the advantages that most you in here have had.

Not everyone in this country is born with an equal chance. Some have to work twice as hard as you to get half as far as you in society. Never forget that an awful lot of where you're at in life, of what you can achieve, has been because of the advantages of your birth.

People like to kid themselves that they've gotten to where they are by their own inititive. You haven't. You were blessed from birth to be born into advantage.

Others weren't quite as lucky as you. Some people overcome their disadvantages, others don't. Would you have?

Well said MesAmis. Said it better than i ever could.

Pure snobbery on this site by a certain few.
------------------------------
On the contrary this is complete bull! I cant believe that people are actually saying that these low lifes are like this because of the hand they were dealt. That is an insult to each and every law abiding, hard working and morally upstanding person on this island. Just exactly what 'advantage' were we all born into, did we all have a silver spoon inserted into our gobs at birth, no and can tell you that where I am from we had no advantages from birth, be it economically or socially, if anything we had to contend with the power of the sectarian NI state whose primary aim was to disadvantage us. And if we think we had it bad, then my folks had it ten times worse and to this day I am unaware of any of my extended family, school mates, workmates or old team mates who have descended into a world of drug abuse and petty or serious crime. I, like a lot of the posters on here, have no high horse to sit on and therefore I dont begin to pretend that I can take the moral high ground on this, but I can confidentally say that I and many of my peers have indeed gotten where they are today by sheer hard work and initiative and many of my school friends, who like me are from very modest working class roots, have gone on to become architects, doctors, teachers etc. So please dont come the bleeding heart liberal **** with me, not one of those wasters that blight our capital have been forced to take the direction they have, they have chosen that path as it is the easiest way out, helped along the way by weak government and the generosity of the welfare state and those misguided few who seem hell bent on making the rest of us feel somehow partly responsible for their 'plight'.

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 03/06/2010 14:24:01    666646

Hurlingdub,

Sop i will ask you the same question i asked Snuffy, who shall we release from prison to make way for them? Is it the murderers, rapists, armed robbers or drug suppliers because thats whats now in jail? We have the highest prison population in Europe for our size and we are not tackling the under-lying problems at all !! There are 5 to a cell in most of Mountjoy except for some areas which are segregated because of gang warfare !! You are more likely to get a drug habit INSIDE Mountjoy than you are outside it !! If they did manage to prevent drugs from getting into the prison there would be riots and deaths. The whole yards are covered by a fine mesh high up on the perimeter walls to prevent footballs, tennis balls etc which contain heroin etc being kicked/thrown into the prison. I take children on visits there and it is scary. It is a powder-keg waiting to explode. When they are released there is nothing in place ie courses, jobs, supervision etc so they end up back inside. its a revolving door. AND it costs 80,000 euro per annum to keep one prisoner inside. Why is this kind of money not being targeted at PREVENTION ?

Now i don't want to preach to you but it is plain to see that the problems mentioned by Scruffy are on the increase not just in Dublin but in every town in Ireland !! We should be targeting the children at an early age by putting in preventative measures in Primary Schools. By demanding detox programmes for
users and addicts and by paying out monies/dole etc only to those who engage in them. At the moment we pay them childrens allowance and the children never see any of it as it ends up in drug dealers bank accounts !! We have to get real and whether we like it or not these are our people and are Irish born and bred !! There are newborn children arriving into this world every day into dysfunctional drug using families, They did not ask for a life of filth, crime and hunger but that is what they are getting and the decent people want our Government to tackle these issues but instead they help the rich bankers and just ignore the poor children who have nobody to speak up on their behalf. AND once again these babies are not sub-human !! The chances are that before they are 18 they will be locked up just as their parents were ... a terrible indictment on our society !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 03/06/2010 15:02:56    666706

Brendtheredhand,

So explain to me how a newborn baby who is dragged around Dublin by a drug addict has a say in how their life is going !! I would love to hear your answer because if you have the remedy for this you can save many from a life of misery !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 03/06/2010 15:06:54    666711

The whole "sub-human" connotations to this thread are absolutely disgusting. Who do ye think ye are?

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12464 - 03/06/2010 15:09:57    666719

I am loathe to make analogies in contexts like this, but calling people "sub-humans" is relevant to all kinds of sick regimes. Indeed, depending on ones class, most of us Irish were sub-humans at certain points in our history.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12464 - 03/06/2010 15:13:51    666726

Sorry slasher, but explain to me where I have stated that I have all the answers and remedies to the social problems and inequalities in our nation? That would indeed be a sad reflection on our society to see children raised that way, however isnt there sufficient legislation for these children to be removed from these very people and placed into foster or proper care homes where they be educated and to help break the cycle? Isnt it time that some limited form of forced sterilisation to be introduced for those who clearly do not have the basic skills or know how to bring children into the world, I know that certain people do this in order to earn more child benefit to feed their habit. In which case children are a commodity, nothing more, nothing less.

Just whats your big idea then, group hugs, rub their backs and go there, there, there, or just throw more of the tax payers money at them, I'm all ears slasher?

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 03/06/2010 15:24:20    666745

Breffni39
County: Cavan
Posts: 2975

666719 The whole "sub-human" connotations to this thread are absolutely disgusting. Who do ye think ye are?

I agree Breff.. but really lets be honest here... these people have given up on themselves and this world.

The most basic sense we have is survival... it defines all life. These people have some how lost what is to be human or in fact any sort of life form found on this planet.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 03/06/2010 15:27:58    666750

Brendtheredhand,

You said that people who were born into a life like that have a choice. What choice has a newborn baby? How can they work hard at becoming something better and well done to you and me and people like us but we did not have the problems they have !! "There but for the grace of God go i" is a very popular saying in my part of the country !!
As regards taking the children from these people i can assure you that this has happened on many occasion but when it does happen these children continue to carry the burden for life. many believe that life has dealt them a very bad hand and act accordingly. They always feel rejected no matter what is put in place for them. I work with many of these children. All you have to do is look up the life of Tracy Fay, Daniel Mc Anaspie etc. It does not always work !! Had you read my post properly you would have seen that i put forward preventative measures that may help !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 03/06/2010 15:52:29    666783

jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 5686

666750 Breffni39
County: Cavan
Posts: 2975

666719 The whole "sub-human" connotations to this thread are absolutely disgusting. Who do ye think ye are?

I agree Breff.. but really lets be honest here... these people have given up on themselves and this world.

The most basic sense we have is survival... it defines all life. These people have some how lost what is to be human or in fact any sort of life form found on this planet.

Its not just addicts and criminals who give up on life jimbo...

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12464 - 03/06/2010 15:57:06    666790

Ye really need to think about who exactly you are classing as sub-humans as well. Some of my all-time heroes and Dublin's greatest sons would be considered sub-humans by the standards in this thread

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12464 - 03/06/2010 16:37:00    666865

Part 1.
Post is a bit long but take the time to read it!

Cavan Slasher, MesAmis, Lockjaw,
Lads, before I answer your points, let me firstly point out to you that I do not stand alone here! Just look at the posts above your last at the top of page 6 and you will see my 'solutions' have considerable support, in fact more than your liberal voice has between ye! My point here is that, you view me and my solutions as some sort of 'ideas of a madman' wheras from the supporters I have for my views on this thread simply show that people are sick and tired of being taken for a ride by filth in this country and the hammer must fall at some stage! I have often remarked here that people in this country are 'pretend PC' when out in public, but get them on their own and they'll soon show you their true colours/thoughts!!.....Example: remember the referendum some years ago as to whether or not you were automatically Irish just because you were born here?.....Now, try telling a new Irish parent that their child 'might not be Irish - just because they were born here' and you might get a punch in the face!...but why did we vote 84% landslide in favour of the change?....because it was a reaction to the immigrants coming in to have their baby during the last weeks of pregnancy!.....in other words, in public the Irish person will tell liberals like you guys what you want to hear for fear of being ridiculed or not being 'PC' but in the sanctuary of the 'secret ballot' the Irishman will show his true feelings with the stroke of a pen in a box!!! Now, just you open my 'solutions' to the public in a secret ballot as to whether they would like to see them enacted and you will see the Irish man and woman yet again show their claws, and mark me I would have a landslide victory!.....That 'IS' the "real world" lockjaw!....Unfortunately none of us live in it!

Cavan Slasher, dont dare to ask me if a child deserves an awful upbringing in an attempt to bring my views and credibility down into the gutter just because you dont like what I have to say! Then suggest I 'do away' with the sick and elderly!....You disgusting man! You can take that back right now and apologise for it! Nowhere did i mention kids, sick, mentally ill or elderly! YOU brought them up in an attempt to make out to other posters that I somehow include them in my use of the term 'filth' and have my argument and me dragged into the gutter! Shame on you!....Take it back!...Stand on your own two feet and dont be so cheap as to try and put such thoughts into the minds of others!...Your not clever enough to get it past me!

To get back to the point, I will say this, and the examles Cavan Slasher gives, were the junkie mother of the poor little girl who was loaned out for prostitution dealt with using my 'solution' and the child taken into care wouldnt you agree that 1. The child would be safer and 2. The money spent on the mothers "rehab/state freebies no doubt/methadone/countless other social benefits no doubt, would have been better spent looking after the child 'safe' and educated in state care that would be better resourced now that filth parents are in my bamboo cage in the ground instead of prison/holiday camp at a cost of hundreds of thousands to the taxpayer per prisoner per year!!.....Well?.....Instead the state lashes out the money/social freebies to the mother and the poor child continues to suffer the terror!! Please tell me Cavan Slasher and liberal Co which one of the above options is better?....and I want an answer!

Ditto, the lad on drugs, maybe the resources needed for to provide him with counselling were being used up by counsellers in prison/holiday camp trying to reform criminals/filth who are on their 54th conviction for mugging my mother or your mother in the street and will be back in the same prison again 2 weeks after they get out for the same crime!!.....Well?.....Can I have an answer to that too?!

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 03/06/2010 17:10:39    666912

Part 2.

As I stated in my first posts, some people are just BAD to the core and they dont want help and just laugh up their sleeve at the rest of us trying to earn an honest living! Cavan Slasher states that nobody should get 'free dole' and has no problem getting those honest people among us to cut grass, empty bins etc (the same good people who have paid their taxes to provide that dole to others who didnt want to work during the boom time but rather beg because its easier and to keep filth in prison/holiday camps) are now to do hard labour like a criminal should although Cavan Slasher makes no mention of a prisoner filth having to ever do such a thing! (Honest people on the dole worked hard to pay the taxes that provide that dole for them when they fall on hard times today Cavan Slasher....they are not getting it for free, they have paid their taxes that provides their dole already!).
Now, I have provided answers to questions asked of me now I would like some answers from pandering liberals in return:
1. A lad has 54 convictions for various offences, assault, robbery, drugs etc (just like we see on the news so many times)! It is obvious that he couldnt care less about anyone/anything and every assistance/programme/welfare/housing/scheme/counselling etc has not worked because he couldnt care less!! What do you pandering liberals suggest we do with him? Continue to throw my taxes at him and have him laugh up his sleeve at me and give 'the fingers' and shout "I'll be out in 2 months!" at the TV cameras while laughing at us?......Well?.....What do we do with this filth?.....(Methinks Snuffys prison 'solution' could well be just the place for this lad, dont you?...wont be "out in two months and thats for sure"!).....So what do we do with him lads?.....This is a sub-human!

2. Radio station: Well known beggar (not on drugs and didnt sound too uneducated either) rings in and proclaims: "I have no fixed abode! Nobody will give me a job because of this so I cant get my life in order and get on my feet!" Businessman (during the boom years this was) tells him he needs a warehouse operative. He will pay him weekly and also give him enough money to house himself in a hostel for one month so he can gather himself together to find a room to rent and will also put him on forklift drivers courses etc! Arrangements made to collect the beggar lad at a certain spot in the city at 8am the following morning and the two would ring in the following night to the station and say how the 'first day' went!....Brilliant!....The following night the businessman rang in and said he waited for half an hour but the beggar lad never showed up and could not be reached on the phone!....Surprise Surprise!....Some filth are just BAD and useless and yet my taxes are blown on them in its thousands!....Well pandering liberals, there was an opportunity for one of your 'poor misunderstood souls' to make a go of life and we all got it thrown back in our faces!!......Yet again I ask you....what should we do with that lad?......Another subhuman!

3. I said this on the prostitution thread about prostitutes! Why do they need to do it these days? I cant understand it? Why can other people who may have been laid off work and with a mortage etc still to pay and all sorts of difficulties due to the economic downturn still manage to eek out an existance and scrimp and scrounge every penny to go a long way without having to sell their bodies? Yet, why cant these prositutes survive on the dole money in the same way and all the other benefits they would get no doubt (and probably not a mortage either) rather than endangering their lives every night? You dont have to do it ladies!!....Sub-humans! Oh, and before anyone tells me about them being in fear of their pimps etc, under my 'solution' there would be no such thing as pimps methinks and the whole 'industry' would be consigned to the history books!

contd....

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 03/06/2010 17:11:42    666913

Part 3....

4. The difference between 'right and wrong'!! You dont need education to know the difference between right and wrong!....a baby knows the difference!....so dont try and come that feeble argument with me as an excuse!

5. ""Hmmm, If I stick this needle of junk into my arm I will be heading down a slippery slope that will eventually lead to my gruesome death like I have seen happen to others of my peers! So will I do it or will I not?!"".....If you go ahead and do it, then dont come cribbin to me about it!!.....I dont give a toss! My tax euros will not be spent on fixing your stuipid decision (when even child knows the consequences of taking drugs) while people in Donegal have to travel to Sligo for a dialysis machine and special needs children are losing their one to one teachers!.....No WAY!!!!

Time for some of you to cop on! Resources are being taken away from the kids, mentally ill, elderly, schools, hospitals etc while these sub-humans who never 'WANT' to work a day in their lives continue to laugh up their sleeve at every single one of us fools and pose a danger to us all because of the pandering we do to them!.....Snuffys 'solution' prison "IS" supported by the vast majority of people in this country but we are all just too 'pretend PC' in public to admit it!....In the ballot the real Irishman gets his say!

"Make crime history!....Abolish human rights for sub-humans NOW!"

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 03/06/2010 17:12:55    666916

Sure you can only laugh...

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12464 - 03/06/2010 17:22:40    666931

Snufalufagus interesting ideas but why even bother spending the money on jails to keep them in or wasting money on essentials like foot and clothing. Simply take them somewhere quiet and get rid of them, it would save even more money

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 03/06/2010 17:37:30    666953

Brendtheredhand:

On the contrary this is complete bull! I cant believe that people are actually saying that these low lifes are like this because of the hand they were dealt. That is an insult to each and every law abiding, hard working and morally upstanding person on this island. Just exactly what 'advantage' were we all born into, did we all have a silver spoon inserted into our gobs at birth, no and can tell you that where I am from we had no advantages from birth, be it economically or socially, if anything we had to contend with the power of the sectarian NI state whose primary aim was to disadvantage us. And if we think we had it bad, then my folks had it ten times worse and to this day I am unaware of any of my extended family, school mates, workmates or old team mates who have descended into a world of drug abuse and petty or serious crime. I, like a lot of the posters on here, have no high horse to sit on and therefore I dont begin to pretend that I can take the moral high ground on this, but I can confidentally say that I and many of my peers have indeed gotten where they are today by sheer hard work and initiative and many of my school friends, who like me are from very modest working class roots, have gone on to become architects, doctors, teachers etc. So please dont come the bleeding heart liberal **** with me, not one of those wasters that blight our capital have been forced to take the direction they have, they have chosen that path as it is the easiest way out, helped along the way by weak government and the generosity of the welfare state and those misguided few who seem hell bent on making the rest of us feel somehow partly responsible for their 'plight'.

You've missed my point eniterely, as have some others too. I said that SOME have been born into advantage not all. Yes you individually and your family overcame disadvantage and fair play. But just because you did dosen't make the point bull.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 03/06/2010 17:58:24    666971

Right, its very easy to dismiss arguments against this as "leftie-liberal etc' or for it as 'right-wing, conservative etc' but that makes a mockery of the debate. People aren't liberal on everything or conservative on everything......its a ridiculous way to be, why make a decision on an issue before you've heard which you do if you pigeonhole yourself or others with these labels.

As simple as I can. My point is that a lot of people are very quick to judge. Some people have it easier than others. Yes I agree that it isn't just about the hand you're dealt with but how you play it, however a bad hand makes it harder. A lot of people are very quick to condemn a group of society but forget the fact that they started life in a much better position than those that they love to condemn.

If it was your loved one, your brother, sister, son, daughter or friend, who made the bad choices and did the wrong things, would you consider them 'sub-human?'

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 03/06/2010 18:17:09    666986

Snuffy,

What a complete load of tripe from you and to look for an apology ... Ha ha ha !!

1. Do not call me a disgusting man !! You would not do it if i was standing beside you i bet !!
2. I do not need to wind up posters to put you down. your posts would do that to anyone with a bit of common sense at all !! I asked you what you would do with the old and disabled because your solution to other problems is way over the top and disgusted me. You will get No apology for that either!!
3. Who do you think you are to come out with the stuff you say about other human beings just because they disgust you. You are full of your own importance !!
4. You put down all people who are less fortunate than you as being their choice. Do you think a newborn baby can actually make a choice? Do you think that anyone with a drug problem should actually be put in your cage?
5. You would put prostitutes into your cages too but not a mention of their clients !!
6. You mention one beggar who did not turn up and put down all beggars with this example ... shameful !!
7. As regards removing babies from their junkie mothers .... already happening.
8. Money being spent on housing junkies in prison and not on kidney dialysis anywhere ..... i agree and have already said so, but who are you going to let out to make room?? Maybe you are just going to use your stockades !!
9. Now something you did not know is that children in state care Do NOT thrive at all and i am right in this so you can check it out !!
10. I gave you two examples of children i know and there are about 5,000 others. Believe it or not i work in an area of very high drug use and see its legacy every day. I have seen most of todays junkies as children and have often put forward solutions to the powers that be on how to combat the problem but nobody listens and just lets the problem continue. Some of them end up murdered but does that make the murderers any better than the "sub-humans"?

No Snuffy i will not listen to your ravings or your solutions and unlike your people who vote by "secret ballot" i prefer to stand up and state MY opinions in the open and i do not care who takes umbrage. Now your point in trying to turn my Dole remark in your favour is as disgusting as what you accused me of doing !! I firmly believe that people who get dole should do something to earn it and i have no problem in stating that as it is my opinion whether its right or wrong !!

Now i did not spend as long making up my reply as you did but i will acknowledge your right to state your views however over-the-top they may be as you have as much right to be wrong as i have to be right !! However do not come the heavy-handed route of your last post again because i will not take that tone from you or anyone else !!
P.S. You cannot state that your "solution" is the one held by most people in the state UNLESS you have taken a ballot, anyone would know that !! Cheers !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 03/06/2010 18:31:39    666992

Whats all the talk of 'silver spoons' around here?

I remember the words of my mother many years ago when she said: "I was drying 16 of your towelling nappies in front of a superser and we had £8 to our name in the bank!" My mother used to wheel that superser from room to room in the house to provide heat to the rooms because the rads were to expensive to have on! Mince and spuds were the staple diet because nothing comes as cheap as those and a strict ration of 2 biscuits after dinner!

There was a 'poor family' in my area and I was in school with one of the boys and we were educated by nuns when we were small, that family had chips every day for dinner with chicken nuggets, coke to drink, and a bar with their cup of tea! The parents both smoked and they would complain of having no money and the boy would be in school with no lunch and the nuns would give him theirs! One nun said to my mother that the problem there was: "bad money management"! Why did that mother not go down the 'bare essentials' route that my mother took?

Another one: Not a single day went by that my mother did not do our homework with us! She would sit at the table with us stood beside her and we would go through our spellings/tables/gaeilge tenses with her until it was all correct!....and woe betide us if we got it wrong more than once!....we never left that kitchen table in the evening unable to rattle off what we had to have learned for the next day fluently even if it was at the expense of a red arse!.....and it stood to us because every one of us went to Uni and is a professional this day!

Furthermore: the mother was an expert weilder of the wooden spoon! Punishment for us was true punishment with the wooden spoon (there was a price to pay for doing wrong!) and because of it we have never harmed a soul in our lives or disrespected anybody or anything! What Im saying here is that if filth parents dont show their kids that doing wrong will be punished then the kids will grow up not giving a damn! Solution - lock up the filth parents and take the kids into care!

Dont anybody tell me I was born with a 'silver spoon' in my mouth! My family had no money too when I was a kid, but my father worked his fingers to the bone and my mother managed our money and disciplined us well and 'drilled' our education into us like a good mother does and because of that I am extremely well educated today and can articulate myself well!...............My parents could just as well have gone down the 'God bless us and save us!' route like many freeloaders did/do but my family has a bit of pride and morals and became unrecognisable in our fortunes as a family from the days when my mother was "drying 16 of my towelling nappies in front of a superser and we had £8 to our name in the bank!".

"Deprived areas"!.....no such thing!......Only people who 'choose' to deprive themselves!

And I said before about drugs!......Nobody forced you to stick that needle of junk into your arm, you did it yourself!.....Now way on off and dont be wasting my taxes on your stuipid mistake!!

Ehh, one last thing!.....so called 'deprived areas'!!......Ladies and Gentlemen may I introduce Mr. Bill Cullen! ha ha ha!

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 03/06/2010 18:36:36    666995

Here Snuf we should just go the whole hog and start practicing eugenics..

Inactive x5 (Cavan) - Posts: 1452 - 03/06/2010 19:09:57    667019