Omar maybe you should have walked in the opposite direction and have a look at the fine buildings on the quays and look inside you might see who are the real culprits of destroying our capital and our country..Its easy to pick on the most vunererable in society...But maybe you should ask why has the inner city being neglated for years on years there was no celtic tiger in these areas..Some of the best people you will ever meet in Dublin come from the inner city....

B

tomaoo7 (Dublin) - Posts: 5896 - 29/05/2010 21:32:26    661836

Scruffy2Donut
County: Cavan
Posts: 448

661273

Let me introduce you to Rodrigo Duterte. He is the mayor Davao city in the Philippines which at one stage had the highest crime rate in the country. Since he took over he has allowed extrajudicial punishment. Davao city is now regarded as one of the safest and most peaceful cities in South East Asia. He supports a vigilante group called the Davao Death Squad which kills suspected drug lords. He has been criticised severly by left wing groups, human rights groups and Amnesty International. But at the end of the day, despite the criticism and harsh measures, his streets are free from scumbags, and his people feel safe. This is the lead Ireland must follow.



Mein Gott. You escaped from the bunker in 1945 and fooled everyone?

Command me mein Fuhrer.

By the was fuhrer, people like Rodrigo Duterte are now following your lead.

Who is he? He is the major drug Lord in the Philippines.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 30/05/2010 14:06:23    662098

Less equal societies are more punitive. California has 360 people serving life sentences for shoplifting. In Britain, every day 40 people are sentenced to jail for shoplifting. Countries that spend less on education spend more on prisons. Since 1980, US spending on prisons has risen six times faster than spending on schools. More unequal countries also seem to be more belligerent internationally.

If Britain and Ireland were as equal as Japan, Norway, Sweden or Finland, we would all live a year longer, we would have seven more weeks of holiday every year, mental illness, teenage births, obesity, imprisonment rates and murders would all be halved.

And Dublin would look better, as in the Rare oul times.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 30/05/2010 14:36:54    662116

interesting patrique that the four counties mentioned have very high suicide rates, particularly japan

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4656 - 30/05/2010 15:17:00    662151

bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 2136

662151
interesting patrique that the four counties mentioned have very high suicide rates, particularly japan


It is indeed but easily explained.

In an unequal society, the big three being GB, USA and Portugal, rage is directed at others, leading to violence against others.

In a fairer society, and you cannot use the inequallity excuse, rage and subsequent violence is directed at the self.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 30/05/2010 16:36:01    662213

I lived and worked in Dublin in '99 & '00. Granted I worked in D4 and had an apartment in a smart area but I spent manys an afternoon and evening strolling and socialising in the city centre. Dublin's beggars were an accepted charm with the kids in their communion outfits and so forth but you didn't get hassled and approached aggressively as you do now by Romanys and junkies. You could make your way home half cut without fear of mugging or stabbing and take time to look at the buildings in O'Connell street without watching your pockets. The nation at that time was full of optimism and the work ethic was savage. It seems that political correctness, ineffective immigration policies and poor city planning has destroyed a city that could have and should have become a tourist favourite.

The Sunday Indo put a great piece together today on the decline of our society, it likens Dublins descent into chaos to that of the nations economy and tries to draw links. It reflects many of the opinions on this thread and delivers an honest analysis of the problem. It is somewhat of a requiem for a once vibrant and beautiful city centre now populated by the enebriated, drug fuelled and lawless.

I still regard '99 and '00 as the best years of my life and now that i'm a married man with responsibilities I had harboured dreams of returning some day to live there again. I have now resigned myself to never going back as in many people's words "the place has gone to hell"

Until the powers that be deal with the problem in a Rudy Guliani fashion Dublin will remain a tourist no go and any prospect of inward investment of money and talent will be stifled by fear.

I remember Dublin in the 'rare oul times' Unfortunately they will remain just a fond memory.

caughtredhanded (Tyrone) - Posts: 602 - 30/05/2010 20:11:40    662460

29/05/2010 14:42:58
JuanVeron
County: Westmeath
Posts: 1681

661532 Omar,

Before you go knocking Dublin, Let's not forget you 'earn' your living from stealing from the Barksdale Organization in one of the most disadvantaged places in the developed World. Justify your actions please!
____________________
No different to solictors only difference is they carry a suitcase
Its all in the game Yo.

Omar.d (Cavan) - Posts: 1141 - 31/05/2010 09:54:19    662655

29/05/2010 21:32:26
tomaoo7
County: Dublin
Posts: 5278

661836 Omar maybe you should have walked in the opposite direction and have a look at the fine buildings on the quays and look inside you might see who are the real culprits of destroying our capital and our country..Its easy to pick on the most vunererable in society...But maybe you should ask why has the inner city being neglated for years on years there was no celtic tiger in these areas..Some of the best people you will ever meet in Dublin come from the inner city....
B
________________
You have competely missed the point, I have quite clearly stated that this is not a pop at "DUBLIN" or "DUBS" but you are posting a response without even reading or understanding my post

It was a genuine observation which every other poster most of whom are from Dublin have agreed with and provided some sort of feedback on the causes and on the cures. How am I picking on anyone ?. My point was about the proliferation of social drops outs congregated in a specific area. I haven't blamed them or judged them, it was as I said an observation. Clearly the remaining 99.9% of the population including dublin people and inner city
peope do not fall into this category. However unless I started a thread with "I saw a lot of normal looking people today" I fail to see your point.

As regards the bankers and the developers, yes they fueled a building boom, yes them have closer links to politicans that they should have, yes there are governance issues but do you wish to use this mantra for every point on this forum. Are they also at fault for the handpass rule ?
The issue at hand is relevant to welfare, health, planning, justice enforcement, legislation. All of these fall within the strategy adopted by local and national government. So in my mind it is societys problem in dealing with family members and neighbours who have dependancy problems as well as societys issue in terms of who it elects to tackle the wider issues.

Omar.d (Cavan) - Posts: 1141 - 31/05/2010 10:10:15    662663

patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 8439

662098 Scruffy2Donut
County: Cavan
Posts: 448

661273

Let me introduce you to Rodrigo Duterte. He is the mayor Davao city in the Philippines which at one stage had the highest crime rate in the country. Since he took over he has allowed extrajudicial punishment. Davao city is now regarded as one of the safest and most peaceful cities in South East Asia. He supports a vigilante group called the Davao Death Squad which kills suspected drug lords. He has been criticised severly by left wing groups, human rights groups and Amnesty International. But at the end of the day, despite the criticism and harsh measures, his streets are free from scumbags, and his people feel safe. This is the lead Ireland must follow.



Mein Gott. You escaped from the bunker in 1945 and fooled everyone?

Command me mein Fuhrer.

By the was fuhrer, people like Rodrigo Duterte are now following your lead.

Who is he? He is the major drug Lord in the Philippines.

Nonsense. You have no proof hes a drug lord. However it is a known fact he wiped out several druggies in his native city. I suspected you wouldnt like him though. Afterall, he also deals out punishment to the commies and underground left. And they'd be good pals of yours wouldnt they, with your marxist doctrine being churned out regularly.

Scruffy2Donut (Cavan) - Posts: 1112 - 31/05/2010 10:19:12    662668

Jaysus lads just looking at some of the comments you'd swear that Dublin city centre was a no go area... it's far far from it! There are a couple of hot spots to avoid... that's about it! Honestly you'd swear the place had been over-run by junkified zombies with laser vision or something.

As I said above... there are a couple of spots to avoid and unfortunately our Cavan brother walked down one of the worst areas on a bad day!

I was in town on Saturday and had a fantastic day walking around... didn't see one junkie eating a corpse, there was no buildings... just young people and families having fun. I was entertaining guests from the UK brought them to see the Book of Kells, ventured around Grafton Street, then up to National History museum, Tara Broach, Ardagh Chalice, ancient artefacts... went for a bite to eat in the sunshine that eventually broke out in St Stephens green, jumped on a Dublin tour bus and they got to learn about the Vikings, the Normans and the war of independence, a quick drive around the Phoenix park... what a beautiful place at this time of year... saw some deer, then we had pint or two back in the Grave diggers and from that, they wanted to see our National Botanic Gardens in Glasnevin (Sheer joy on a sunny day) we had an Ice cream by the River Tolka, I saw a decent Brown trout… at least two pounds I reckon, and I then took them around a tour of Glasnevin cemetery yesterday..... And not a junkie insight!

A lot of sensationalist posts above lads... we live in a society that has serious problems, just like any society... there's no doubt that we need to clean up these hot spots that junkies and drunks frequent... Dublin as a city has it problems... it's also a fantastic place... when you know the odd street not to walk down.

And our London visitors loved the place…. Loved it.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 31/05/2010 11:06:25    662730

well its definitely not just the northside of the city centre, went to stephens green there for break & there was a gang of junkies harassing people for money, everybody on edge, pulling their handbags closer etc etc they really are intimidating
and as for the romas- the south side is ruined with them. only last week i was told to "**** off *****" & spat at (missed!) for not giving a roma gypsey man a smoke (which i actually didnt have anyway, but thats no the point)
if i was a tourist i wouldnt be coming back. such a shame coz dublin has lots to offer but its easily overshadowed by these kinds of people

mac21 (Leitrim) - Posts: 677 - 31/05/2010 14:26:12    663062

mac21
County: Leitrim
Posts: 507

And why did you let the s*u*bag away with it? You should have returned with a few lads and taught him a lesson, that he wont come to our country and abuse the natives. Eye for an eye.

Scruffy2Donut (Cavan) - Posts: 1112 - 31/05/2010 15:06:34    663129

It's very sad and disturbing that many Dubs feel that way about their city but then they have to live there 365 days a year and these problems are with them constantly. The rest of us can visit then leave without really experiencing the violence, criminality and drugs that are tearing the city apart. For my part I think Dublin is a wonderfully alive yet historic city with a tremendous buzz and atmosphere BUT there definately is an underlying feeling of danger and malevolance
in parts of the city centre which are very offputting. I was in Nice last year and the Gendarmerie appeared to have a zero tolerance to any criminality or bad behaviour on the streets. They were very visable on foot and in their cars and vans and were right on top of street drinkers and low lifes who were annoying locals and tourists; they took no prisoners. There is no doubt drugs are doing this to Dublin and without taking the moral high ground the drugs problem, especially heroin and cocaine, is nowhere near as bad in the North where the public seem to be far more intolerant of drugs and dealers. While some might not like it and others will condemn it the fact is that the draconian way in which many dealers in the North were 'sorted out' was welcomed in many communities and yes that does mean taken out. It is almose unheard of for junkies or dealers to be seen anywhere in Belfast city centre, I am not saying they don't exist but they know to stay away out of the road. It is also a fact that if many of the hypocrites amongst the socialites, beautiful people and D4 crowd didn't use drugs the dealers wouldn't exist so they are in no position to sit on their high horses and point fingers.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9829 - 31/05/2010 15:12:17    663136

Scruffy2Donut
County: Cavan
Posts: 451

was on my own, waiting for a bus & female! maybe i shouldve ran after him with my stiletto! seriously though i was in shock, its very intimidating.

mac21 (Leitrim) - Posts: 677 - 31/05/2010 15:14:42    663141

Nobody has come up with a solution as to where to put these people as :-

1. Prisons are full.
2. Rehabilitation centres are at breaking point or not being funded any longer.

Wait till the dole cuts take effect as the begging will increase, drug taking will increase, crime will increase, homelessness will increase, marriage break-ups will increase, single parent numbers will probably increase too !!

I would like to see some solutions to the problems and not just suggestions for using gas chambers etc !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 31/05/2010 15:59:56    663196

cavanslasher.
i know were u are coming from , but there is not going 2 be any easy solution.
i personally would be in favour of wiping out drug pushers . shooting them in a public place visible 4 everyone 2 see.
and then we could help the victims of all of this , the addicts , take the money off the dead pushers seize their families assets , and build more treatment centres.
there really is the only way 2 solve this SOLUTION . complete wipeout of pushers , without any government intervention, free hand if u want 2 call it that .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 31/05/2010 18:09:21    663443

As stated elsewhere, you really did pick the worst area of the city to walk around! NEVER, do I walk around there and Snuffy aint a shrinking violet either! That quarter of the City is dreadful!
Had you walked the Parnell St, Capel St, Quays area you would not have seen such things, same too for the Southside!
But thats all beside the point!
I notice in town these days a lot of 'new homeless'! These people seem to have a better appearance and manner to them and are obviously terrible victims of the recession! I feel sorry for them ones!
My views are often quite hardline, and I make no apology for them and fully stand over them!

Junkies!....why do I have to pay for rehab for these other parasites? Guess what?....Just like you and every other adult on this earth you had a choice as to whether to stick a needle in your arm or not!.....I choose not, you chose to do it!.....Tough luck!....Wrong choice!....Suffer the consequences!....Why should I pay for it??!!....Good riddance!.....Parasites!

As for the white collar criminals!
We now live in a nation of cowards, shirkers, turn coats and 'YES' men!!
We live in a nation where everyone is afraid to upset anyone else! Where everyone is afraid to confront someone who does wrong, (but they dont mind talking about it!)! How many of us talk about "Oh these bankers etc should be put in prison!".....but they wont cos nobody has the balls to do it!
The Greeks were right!....."No bailout for the rich!....We are not Ireland!".....Brilliant and so true!
We are the fools who are too afraid of 'each other' to upset each other!.....Shirking fools!

I also have to stand up to 'PC' liberal do-gooders out there who just wont accept the fact that some people are just 'BAD' and 'USELESS' and a 'deliberate' drain on society and I dont want to pay to keep them anymore!....Find examples listed below!....We are all adults!....We all need to take responsibility for our actions!
What do you do with a junkie who uses methadone as a 'by the way' along with his 'fix'?
What do you do with a beggar on the streets that was set up with a job to take him off the streets and doesnt bother to turn up for work?
What do you do with these criminals and parasites who have been given every assistance/scheme/course/chance etc on offer and yet the reality is that they 'DONT WANT IT' but instead are happy to be a dangerous burden to you and I???.......Well??
My solution is simple?....Why are these flith not filling in the potholes in our terrible roads, dredging canals etc?
Dont talk to me about 'human rights'!.....Human rights are for humans, not sub-humans!!
Hard labour, bamboo cages in the ground as a cell, floggings, etc!.................These are the key penal ingrediants for a criminal who enters prison to be reformed!
Arent prisons known as reformatorys/correctional facilities??....Isnt the goal, to reform/correct the prisoner and make them want to not return there again??.....Well if it is then Irish prisons/holiday camps dont work do they??.....But you can guarantee they an Irish prisoner doing a 'cell swap' for the duration of his stretch with a Thai prisoner would never commit a crime again!!......Now thats what I call reform/correction!!

"Make crime history!....Abolish human rights for sub-humans now!!"...................Result!

The bottom line is that Snuffys draconian solutions dont sit well with the cowardly shirkers we have become in this country and so we throw money at the problem instead to appease the do-gooders we think we are!.....But we all know that prison should mean PRISON! and that there should be a price to pay when you go there!
Whatsmore, everyone reading this knows that my solutions will have 100% effectivness!....but why wont it be enacted?.....because of a nation of cowardly shirkers and fake 'PC in public' do-gooders that we are!!......So lets all continue to suffer this blight instead!

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 31/05/2010 20:32:16    663638

Omar.d
County: Cavan
Posts: 44

660692 I lived in Dublin for a while in the late 1990's and held fairly good memories of my time in our nations capital though as a single male in his early twenties with a few pounds in his back pocket at that time I would have held a different perspective on life.

Since then I probably go to Dublin 6/7 times a year usually through work to some office block in the IFSC or Dublin 2, or to see a game in Croker (as a neutral before someone states the obvious) , so the parts of town I see are fairly limited.

Yesterday afternoon I had occasion to be in the city centre. Was up to see a show and for a spot of grub before hand. Myself and Mrs. Omar landed up nice and early and Mrs. Omar being Mrs. Omar decided she wanted to spend an hour in Arnotts in advance. I had parked in the IFSC in a mates workplace so we took a walk from there past Busaras, along Abbey street and O Connell street to Henry Street.

It's quite a few years since I've walked this track but I have to say that in any city in any part of the developed world I have never witnessed such abject misery. I passed more Winos' Alcos, Drug addicts, Beggars, loiterers and general society drop outs than I did normal "citizens. This was at 4 pm in the afternoon and within 50 yards of each other on O Connell Street I saw two men fighting in front a LUAS, A drunk banging on the window of a taxi. A woman lying in front a car and two drunks being dragged out of a shop by garda. It was liek being in Harlem or somehwere In addition the area around opposite Arnotts which once had stalls and discount butcher shops is now dominated by "mobile phone unlocking, Massage, Head shops, €2 braiding salons etc.

Now I appreciate that all large cities have areas where this happens but typically this is in suburbs or near train stations etc rather than right in the middle of what is the main thoroughfare. To be honest I can't understand what would draw any tourist to Dublin when one looks at most other European capitals.

Has it always been like this or have things got worse over the last number of years ?

Omar i find your post hard to believe...Its funny how jimbodub can walk around the city and see fo_k all..And you stoll down from cavan and see so much misery in 10 mins...Can't say i have ever seen so much carnage either in such a short walk through the city..

May be your watching to much of fair city..or a scene from hill st blues..

tomaoo7 (Dublin) - Posts: 5896 - 31/05/2010 20:42:17    663664

ta32, Snuffy,

Gentlemen, I agree with both of you wholeheartedly. Zero tolerance is what we need.

Scruffy2Donut (Cavan) - Posts: 1112 - 31/05/2010 20:52:36    663677

Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 2017

663136 In the mid 90s a group was set up called ICCAD...inner city community against drugs..These people drove drugs and dealers from the inner city ....But as always our friends in blue decided to pursue this group and let drug dealers walk the streets...This group lost heart and disbanded and drugs came back to the city in higher volumes..It came to a point where anti drugs activist were going to prison for long spells -and the drug dealers were getting suspended sentences....

tomaoo7 (Dublin) - Posts: 5896 - 31/05/2010 20:53:20    663679