wrong again pomery. he was 11. but even at 15, the club in question would have 3-4 years of developing a player. marcheda was nearly the full package when he arrived in england

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4202 - 08/04/2010 20:16:46    612350

Mikeynora
County: Limerick
Posts: 331

611426
GLASGOW Celtic Athletic and Football Club are about as Irish as Yorkshire Pork Pies.
They are a British team, playing in a British league, in Britain.
Celtic are British. 100%. Everybit as BRITISH as GLASGOW Rangers FC.

are you on about The Celtic Football Club?

bountyhunter (Cavan) - Posts: 302 - 08/04/2010 20:29:13    612364

Or, barca were so hungry to poach players they went as young as 11 years old. Just depends on how you want to see it. Look barca are not the club you make them out to be. They dot try to get fans in asia, so what, they are obviously getting truckloads of money from somewhere, does it matter if it came from asia or not? Look at the money they spent on ibrahimovic. If you are looking for a youth development club then support bilbao

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 08/04/2010 21:27:54    612444

no i wont support anyone master.

united are a corporate business concerned about profits. barca are owned by the fans and give money to charity. see the difference.

name another player they got at 11?. messis situation is different. he had a growth hormone deficiency. had he not had this, he wouldnt have been at spain until 18

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4202 - 08/04/2010 21:36:14    612455

Why does every soccer thread on this site seem to descend into a debate whether Celtic are Irish or not. I would not really call myself a "supporter" of any soccer team as I do not make the effort to go every week, but I do follow Celtic and Man United. Celtic because there was a lot of emigration from the Fermanagh/Monaghan border to Glasgow and a tradition of following the club was established. While my own family had no direct connection to the city a lot of my neighbours had either come back from Glasgow to live in Ireland or would spend part of the year working there. When I was a kid I thought the Gorbals cross was somewhere between Clones and Roslea!

As for the why didn't you follow Hibs question, my areas links were to Glasgow and not Edinburgh so it was never something I gave any thoughts too. A lot of people don't realise this, but Dundee United were once Dundee Hibernians and were also considered an Irish club. Like Hibs they moved away from their Irish roots gradualy as Irish emigration to their city slowed down and the Irish communities in those cities became smaller and more assimilated, Dundee Utd in the 20's and 30's and Hibs in the 50's and 60's. Emigration to the west of Scotland (thats the Glasgow area by the way) was constant so perhaps this explains the closer Irish ties to Celtic.

Living on the border we had all the English channels and as a kid with the amount of exposure to English soccer it was hard to avoid picking a club to follow. Man United had a lot of Irish players, especially Paul McGrath, so I started to follow them and I have had an interest in them ever since.

One other point on the how Irish are Celtic debate. I have been to home matches and both domestic and European away matches with both clubs and one thing I noticed with United is that occasionally you can meet the odd United supporter who resents the Irish support for the club. This is something that you never feel with Celtic supporters who see their Irish heritage as an integral part of the club. There is an interesting letter to the current edition of the fanzine of "United We Stand" were a Manchester born supporter picks up on this issue and more or less tells the Irish supporters to follow their own league. Its an interesting read for any Irish United supporter. Has any United or Liverpool supporter ever come across any hostility to their support from English fans?

The Hunter (None) - Posts: 22 - 09/04/2010 10:26:22    612562

32_4_1 wrote:

united are a corporate business concerned about profits. barca are owned by the fans and give money to charity. see the difference.

What a truly ignorant post lacking any intelligence.

While the boardroom setup of both clubs is vastly different, the charity work done by players of Manchester United and United as a club is very impressive. This does not just stop at Manchester United. Liverpool also, have huge links with the community, players from both clubs are frequent visitors to local hospitals giving their time & money to help sick children and local charities. Roy Keane often supported many Manchester & Irish charities of condition of anonymity.

Sure Barcelona as a club have embraced UNICEF & have to be applauded for their work with UNICEF. But if you were not so lazy as to just post without any thought or effort, had you gone to manutd.com and searched for UNICEF, you would see the work that Manchester United do on behalf of UNICEF. So while credit goes to barcelona's boardroom for allowing UNICEF on their shirts & paying them for the privilege, there are other ways to help charities.

I accept any criticisms of United as a club, but a lazy post like yours is painful.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6535 - 09/04/2010 11:05:17    612604

Excellent post The Hunter. To answer your opening question "Why does every soccer thread on this site seem to descend into a debate whether Celtic are Irish or not" - it is because of WUMs like PomeroyPlunkett, bad.monkey, etc. Sad people.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 09/04/2010 13:08:20    612751

the ethos of barca are pure. the same cannot be said for madrid or united. thats what im trying to get accross. while united are marketing their brand for asian kids to make more money, barca are training 10 year old home grown players how to play the beautiful game the way it should be played etc. while united become a worldwide commerciaised business who go out of their way to brainwash kids from all over the world to support their business, barca are representing a cause for the catalonian people. while united are squeezing every penny out of every sponsor, putting the club up for the highest bidder, barca are owned by the fans and give money to charity.

the clubs are nothing alike. ones a business, ones a football club. in its most simple form it good v evil. ive yet to come accross a neutral who supported united in last years champions league final

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4202 - 09/04/2010 13:52:26    612802

the clubs are nothing alike. ones a business, ones a football club. in its most simple form it good v evil. ive yet to come accross a neutral who supported united in last years champions league final

sorry mate but you're talking complete & utter rubbish. How many kids from all over Britain have Manchester United given an opportunity to? Go through practically every football league club & you will see a Manchester United link - a kid that got trials with United, played for the first team etc. How many Irish kids have United given an opportunity to? Fair point Barcelona focus on Catalunya & I greatly admire their devotion to locals - the club they are are what United aspire to in terms of ownership.

However, as a proud Irishman, I have to say I'm proud of how United have given the opportunity to so many Irish players to go over to Manchester, pull on the jersey and play for United. Liverpool, Arsenal & Celtic have all done that too. Then people wonder why Irish people feel an affinity to these clubs. Paul McGrath & Roy Keane for example, two of Ireland's greatest players both wore the red of United and earned a good living out of United. It was a mutually successful venture for both players.

As for your comment about coaching local kids, United started the 1999 Champions League final with Ryan Giggs, David Beckham, Paul Scholes and Nicky Butt. Paul Scholes was suspended, Phil Nevill was a substitute. All these players came through the club ranks - Beckham apart how many had significant shirt sales? Were they there for the business or the football side of things.

Taking it further, Celtic won the 1967 Champions Cup with 11 'Lisbon Lions' that all grew up locally to the ground. What an achievement.

I think this hero-worship of Barcelona is media driven. Yes, they're a great club in terms of ownership, but this thing about coaching youngsters locally, Real Betis and Athletico Bilbao do the same. I think you are focusing on Barcelona because they are successful right now. Surely for Celtic to achieve what they did in 1967 is on a par if not better than what Barcelona have achieved under their current coach?

Open your eyes - because a club donates to charity & seems to emphasise coaching young stars, that doesn't mean they don't spend as much if not more than clubs like Manchester United. The transfer of Ibrahimovich is a prime example. Don't be media driven in your Barcelona worship.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6535 - 09/04/2010 14:41:20    612863

i love celtic. where have i compared barca to celtic?. celtic like barca, arnt a business. infact many of celtics and barcas principles are the same. so i have absolutely NO idea why you are dragging celtic into this. they have NOTHING to do with it.

every club has youth academys. every club will bring up a few youngsters. every club will give a bit to charity. every club will have players (who just happen to be at the club, the club has nothing to do with playes giving money to charity are you earlier implied) who will give to charity. thats not the point. argue these points things all you want, but in wont change what united have become in the last two decades.

barca have their principles, ethos and philosophy and have never strayed from it. as a club, they live by them

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4202 - 09/04/2010 15:08:36    612906

celtic like barca, arnt a business says 32_4_1
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!
Tell that to Dermot Desmond!!!!!!!!!
You absolute tool

Mikeynora (Limerick) - Posts: 888 - 09/04/2010 15:35:40    612939

he has the money to take it over, but as a fan doesnt want to.

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4202 - 09/04/2010 16:06:41    612982

(part 1 of 2)


Look I've not read all the posts on this forum either. I've had a manic week at work.

Why do we follow English football clubs? I dunno, cos they represent the height of the game we would all love to have played at? Because they give us heroes? Because Irish football is so amateurish in it's setup & running? Or because we want to associate with winners?

Pick your reason, but to be honest I cannot explain it. I was 6 when I started following United. I think it may just have been because most of the kids in the primary school were following Liverpool. I have never been one to follow a crowd and we used to play Liverpool V United in School and of course the United lads were outnumbered 3-1. The first time I saw them play, it was Liverpool V United on TV and we wore white, they wore red. I looked it up on the net & that game finished 0-0. I think I just liked the colour of the United shirts.

Some people are troubled why us Irish support English teams. It's like a bloke whose missus is meeting someone else. She would not be doing so if things were perfect between you & her would she? I worked with a few lads who used to play for Limerick FC and one of them looked down on me so much for the level I was playing at. How could I ever go watch him & respect him? English soccer players were not looking down their noses at the level he was playing at so why should he look down on me.

Why, or how you started supporting an English football side, or any side, is not important. It's what it means to you is what is important. Manchester United has been part of my life for 28 years now. When I began following we were average, we got worse, we hit the jackpot, life went on. The thing is to enjoy it. There have been times in my life where I recall something that happened, good or bad because a United game was on the same day. I'm not ashamed to say in the lean eras I thought Fergie should go, or that if we got relegated around 89/90 it may have been good, so we could rebuild like Newcastle now. Maybe I was young & didn't realise that taying in the rop flight was paramount. Maybe I just wanted us to win something, even the second division.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6535 - 09/04/2010 16:57:07    613057

(part 2 of 2)

Over the years, the club has grown and grown to mean more to me. Irish people can be so silly when they support English sides. They cheer them in the Champions League/Premiership one week, then hope the players they cheer on fall on their faces playing for England. I wish United's players well whenever they play. Irish people are also afraid to say how they feel about their clubs. How does it make you feel? The day of a big game I wonder who will play, what is the manager saying to the players, how are the players, nervous or whatnot. If they win, I love it, if they lose I'm gutted but cannot wait for the next game. Score with a late winner, it's ecstacy, lose in that fashion, agony. But what the game and your club does to you is amazing - it produces chemicals in your body that lots of drugs or drinks can't :-) When United won the Champions League in 99 I cried, not in a girly way, but in a realisation that one man's vision and courage had paid off by creating something he had to take credit for. He put his faith in a group of youngsters and they reached the summit of European football I saw Liverpool supporters do the same in 2005, I didn't share their sentiments but I understood and wished them well. It galled me to see Gerard lift the cup when Keane didn't get that chance. But that's life - there are knocks and injustices but you have to deal with them. And good luck to whoever wins what because winning a trophy in any sport cannot be sneered at.

English football is slated for it's debt, greed etc, but there is an honesty in it not in other leagues. Teams play each other in the final day of the season fixtures & give their all. United beat Hull with a second string last May - Hull stayed up Newcastle went down. In 1995, as much as it would have galled Liverpool to see us win the title, they beat Blackburn on the final day and we failed to beat West Ham, handing the title to Blackburn. Where else would you find that honesty? 2 teams who HATE each other, yet respect the game so much they want to win even if it hurts them.

Year after year Irish players go across the water in search of glory. Most don't make it, but are their dreams served by the Irish leagues? Not on your nelly. So rather than mocking English football maybe we should realise how big a deal it is in all our lives. Go for a pint on a weekend night, do you talk about the happenings in the Premiership? Of course you do. People make lifelong friendships despite following rival clubs and still remain buddies with a bit of banter. When Ireland have done well in International football most of the players have been playing top flight for English clubs. Like it or not, English football is part of all our lives, unless we choose for it not to be.

I'm very happy following Manchester United. And you know what, even if we do win nothing for the next 5 years 25 years, who cares? I'll still watch every game, go over as often as I can, have a chat with my mates about it & give/take a bit of slagging. But behind closed doors I'll still feel the delight/disappointment/relief and pain each result brings. I see other people feel the same about their clubs and although I don't agree, I understand. I think it helps you deal with life and if it doesn't maybe you're not enjoying it, rather letting it upset you. The game is there for us all to enjoy and enjoying it is the main thing for me. Without United and without United's rivals (even Liverpool!!) life would be a lot more dull.

Yours in sport,

Slayer

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6535 - 09/04/2010 16:57:38    613059

Slayer fair play mate, you have outlined superbly why so many of us follow English football clubs, why there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, and why closet Republicans like 32_4_1 are the sad ones, as it actually bothers these people that so many of us follow English football clubs.

gilly0512 (Galway) - Posts: 1176 - 09/04/2010 18:56:17    613178

Post of the day Slayer, good stuff. Summed it all up well for all people that support their clubs for the right reasons

NavyNBlue (Dublin) - Posts: 1357 - 09/04/2010 21:17:39    613303

slayer
County: Limerick
Posts: 1353

612604
32_4_1 wrote:

united are a corporate business concerned about profits. barca are owned by the fans and give money to charity. see the difference.

What a truly ignorant post lacking any intelligence.

While the boardroom setup of both clubs is vastly different, the charity work done by players of Manchester United and United as a club is very impressive. This does not just stop at Manchester United. Liverpool also, have huge links with the community, players from both clubs are frequent visitors to local hospitals giving their time & money to help sick children and local charities. Roy Keane often supported many Manchester & Irish charities of condition of anonymity.


yes, soccer players give about £2,000 each a year to charity. That is like me giving 1 Euro a year.

And have a look at the figures from Man United playing in aid of the Omagh tragedy.

Just as well it wasn't at a bigger ground.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 09/04/2010 21:32:48    613318

patrique wrote:

yes, soccer players give about £2,000 each a year to charity. That is like me giving 1 Euro a year. And have a look at the figures from Man United playing in aid of the Omagh tragedy. Just as well it wasn't at a bigger ground.

Patrique - I think you are a troll, you see 'Manchester United' and you go on a wind up mission. I think that's sad, but as a person posting on this messageboard, I will give your post the respect it deserves.

First of all, where are you getting your figures from? How did you arrive at 2,000? If this is a factual figure, great, share your source, if this is an opinion, which I suspect it is based on your use of the word 'about', I suggest you deal with facts rather than opinions in this type of debate in future.

How many other clubs were contacted to play in the Omagh tribute game? If Manchester United had not played, would you be mouthing off too? I suspect you would given your constant boring posts about United. So really it is damned if they did, damned if they didn't really.

Do you remember Liverpool sending a side to Cork last season? Was it not a nice gesture? Why did they do it? I think it is because they respect football in ireland given the fact they have picked up players over here over the years. How many requests do the bigger English clubs get to play in Ireland every year? Why did the organisers ask Manchester United and not for example Celtic? Think about it before you reply.

Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester United & Everton have regularly picked up players from Ireland over the last 30 years. Patrique have you ever attended the Kennedy Cup in Limerick, in UL for U13 players each year? You will see scouts from all over Britan coming to take an interest in Irish players. These players are offered contracts, their parents are invited over to the clubs, they WANT Irish players. Do Barcelona? No - they concentrate on the region of the world they live in. Did Barcelona offer to play in Omagh? I don't recall that.

You forget that while the English clubs make official donations to charities, many donations are made in private, anonymously or through third parties. As I mentioned in previous posts, Roy Keane is one example and Kenny Dalglish is another. Dalglish was deeply affected by the Hillsborough tragedy and has done huge amounts of work for Liverpool based charities in the 20 years since. The man loves golf - he organises lots of charity events through golf each year.

So while you have taken a cheap shot at Manchester United, your plan has backfired as it shows how uninterested you are in researching facts. Now next time, think before you post, it should be something you can do as you seem intelligent, you just choose not to appear that way.

Slayer

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6535 - 10/04/2010 13:52:51    613485

celtic often play in ireland. they've played a lot more here than any english team

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4202 - 10/04/2010 17:33:09    613626

32_4_1 wrote:

celtic often play in ireland. they've played a lot more here than any english team


And why were they not asked to play in the Omagh tribute? I would suggest it wasn't down to Celtic as a club, but for other reasons. Think about it.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6535 - 10/04/2010 19:08:20    613660