ROG at the moment. A more consistent goal kicker hands down. Dan Parks isn't the best No 10 in Scotland but he is there for that reason alone. Sexton was indicating for ROG to come on to replace him which was was a sure sign his faith in himself was gone at that point?Not a good sign in my opinion.

jonny1951 (Mayo) - Posts: 1431 - 22/03/2010 13:10:57    594908

Sexton's Confidence must be at rock bottom , his kicking is woeful and was not helped with being sub again as he was about to kick for goal , time for kidney to try the Ulster men Wallace or Humphrey's.

DynamoDooher (Tyrone) - Posts: 423 - 22/03/2010 13:50:01    594975

Sorry Breffni, but you simply can't argue that those kicking statistics are irrelevant or misleading. Sexton had 16 kicks at goal from a variety of angles in different weather conditions under different amounts of pressure and scored just 6 of them (37.5%). O'Gara had 11 kicks and scored them all (100%).

Sexton's success rate being so low it is not an accident due to difficult weather conditions or taking all his kicks from the position O'Gara scored his conversion to level the scores on Saturday. 37.5% from 16 kicks is just too low, if he was above or around 70% you might have an argument. As it is I think O'Gara's 11 kicks and Sexton's 16 is a large enough sample size, as is Parra's, Bergamasco's, Jones', Parks', etc. Of that list perhaps Flood and Paterson's are the only misleading statistics as they did not have as many kicks.

Please quote an example of "extreme criticism" of Sexton from me. It don't think it could be argued that my criticism of Best was "extreme" either, I merely pointed out that he failed miserably to throw the ball accurately into our lineout. 5 of the lineouts we lost on Saturday were due to throwing errors from Best. My reference to an Ulster bias was brief and only aimed at those Ulster posters who felt Best should have started at hooker in our earlier games when Flannery was available.

Also, Munster players are far from immune to criticism from myself - Flannery cost us big-time with his petulant kick in Paris (not his first moment of stupidity). Hayes' scrummaging also was a big problem (although he has been a fabulous servant to Ireland and we don't have too many other options). I happen to think Ronan O'Gara is a better outhalf than Sexton and Flannery is a better hooker than Best (two widely held beliefs), nothing to do with what province they come from.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 22/03/2010 13:57:55    594981

I was obviously being tongue in cheek with that stats comment Nocky, as it appears that "rational debate" means total disregard for anything that backs up the opposing arguement - see my team stats.

Your comments may not be extreme criticism on their own but your reluctance to blame anyone else highlights the criticism.

Rory best threw several good throws, but the calls were wrong on some and some the scots simply stole. Crooked throws are more likely when you lose confidence in your team-mates ability to catch good ones. Best has to shoulder some of the blame but so do all the other line-out operators that are above reproach from yourself.

Your analysis of the game is tabloid in its nature, blaming all the easy targets and giving all the sacred cows a free ride, when practically everyone bar Bowe and O'Callaghan disappointed. O'Driscoll was alright, but poor by his own standards.

We failed as a team.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12485 - 22/03/2010 15:00:39    595046

I have already took apart your "team stats" argument Breffni, so much so that you stopped replying, so I am not going to go over that again.

Yes, we did lose a few lineouts where Best did not overthrow the ball or throw the ball in crooked, but as I said in a previous post "the jumpers can't be blamed for 3 overthrows and 2 crooked - this is on Best." He threw one crooked to O'Callaghan who was at the very front of the lineout only 5 yards away! This is inexcusable. He shouldn't ever lose confidence in his teammate's ability to catch the ball if he throws it to the right area, we have some of the very best lineout operators in world rugby. Some of the calls didn't help, asking him to throw the ball to the back (the most difficult throws) probably wasn't brilliant lineout calling (I think O'Connell may be to blame for that as the lineout caller).

You are correct, we were poor as a team yesterday - missed tackles, silly penalties conceded, poor handling and knock-ons, a bad scrum, terrible lineout, poor at the breakdown, easy goalkicks missed, etc. Yes, we lost as a team. This does not mean that we are not entitled to debate what went wrong. Two of the biggest problems in my opinion were our outhalf's inability to convert the simplest of kicks and our hooker's inability to accurately throw the ball into our lineout.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 22/03/2010 16:27:33    595168

Breffni what are you saying that i criticise everyone except Munster players.... This forum is about Sexton and O'Gara. I think O'Gara is better, he is the only Munster palyer ive mentioned and Sexton is the only player outside Munster that ive mentioned. I couldnt give a hoot about munster when Ireland is concerened. Ask anyone in the know, i came on here last year when Leinster won the H-cup and offered my congratulations, ive never uttered a bad word about any of the 4 provinces. Its my opinion O'Gara is better than Sexton, you dont agree fair enough but i wont have you coming out with outlandish untrue statements with no foundation whatsoever... and id appreciate if u didnt put myself and Nocky together and im sure he wouldnt either

miketyson (Limerick) - Posts: 2748 - 22/03/2010 17:16:03    595264

O'Gara

jimmy90 (Kildare) - Posts: 160 - 22/03/2010 17:55:23    595336

Sexton had a poor six nations kicking wise but will of course get better. Sexton is a far better all round player than O'Gara and allows others around him to play better. O'Gara is severely limited in open play and his tackling is a liability, his kicking suits munsters forward dominated play but doesnt suit ireland whose strength is in their backs. Sexton is an excellent kicker and has proved this before for both leinster and ireland, seems nerves got the better of him, a young man in his first six nations it can happen.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4666 - 22/03/2010 18:04:53    595349

Ireland will not improve as a team under O'Gara.His kicking for territory works for Ireland,and helps them grind out results against mediocre northern hemisphere teams.But they will not expand their game this way,thus not improving as a team.Sexton is the way forward for Ireland,simple as that.Yes his kicking was erratic in the past couple of games,and this needs to improve,but more tries will be scored with Sexton.

lyoto.machida (Meath) - Posts: 343 - 22/03/2010 19:57:26    595517

Relax. Those who know about rugby union, the selectors, management and other assorted "experts" ALL say it MUST be Sexton.

Even Eddie Butler, Mick Galway and Franno say it is a no brainer.

Just as England show signs that it is no longer 2003 and you now need more than just a kicker, some on here want Ireland to select a very poor man's Johnny Wilkinson.

Amazing.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 22/03/2010 20:26:55    595582

miketyson
County: Limerick
Posts: 1079

595264 Breffni what are you saying that i criticise everyone except Munster players.... This forum is about Sexton and O'Gara. I think O'Gara is better, he is the only Munster palyer ive mentioned and Sexton is the only player outside Munster that ive mentioned. I couldnt give a hoot about munster when Ireland is concerened. Ask anyone in the know, i came on here last year when Leinster won the H-cup and offered my congratulations, ive never uttered a bad word about any of the 4 provinces. Its my opinion O'Gara is better than Sexton, you dont agree fair enough but i wont have you coming out with outlandish untrue statements with no foundation whatsoever... and id appreciate if u didnt put myself and Nocky together and im sure he wouldnt either

Fair enough Mike, sorry about that!

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12485 - 23/03/2010 10:26:36    595880

nocky
County: Wexford
Posts: 1737

595168 I have already took apart your "team stats" argument Breffni, so much so that you stopped replying, so I am not going to go over that again.

This is very juvenile. You did not take apart my stats Nocky. You pointed out an error, which didn't change the stat but which I accepted and you then disregarded them as they didn't suit you. Hence, me jokingly disregarding your kicking stats. That went right over your head though. I stopped replying = I stopped headbutting a brick wall.

Yes, we did lose a few lineouts where Best did not overthrow the ball or throw the ball in crooked, but as I said in a previous post "the jumpers can't be blamed for 3 overthrows and 2 crooked - this is on Best." He threw one crooked to O'Callaghan who was at the very front of the lineout only 5 yards away! This is inexcusable. He shouldn't ever lose confidence in his teammate's ability to catch the ball if he throws it to the right area, we have some of the very best lineout operators in world rugby. Some of the calls didn't help, asking him to throw the ball to the back (the most difficult throws) probably wasn't brilliant lineout calling (I think O'Connell may be to blame for that as the lineout caller).

You are correct, we were poor as a team yesterday - missed tackles, silly penalties conceded, poor handling and knock-ons, a bad scrum, terrible lineout, poor at the breakdown, easy goalkicks missed, etc. Yes, we lost as a team. This does not mean that we are not entitled to debate what went wrong. Two of the biggest problems in my opinion were our outhalf's inability to convert the simplest of kicks and our hooker's inability to accurately throw the ball into our lineout.

We have nothing to worry about so, as it appears apparant that all our team faults will be miraculously solved by replacing Rory Best with Jerry Flannery and Johnny Sexton with Ronan O'Gara. Flannery has never thrown crooked and O'Gara has never missed a kick! World Cup glory beckons! Who knew it was so straighforward!

Ps. Still laughing at you arbitrary examples of criticising Munster players - Jerry Flannery shouldn't kick people and John Hayes is old a can't scrummage! - you really went to town on them there!

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12485 - 23/03/2010 10:36:44    595887

"You are correct, we were poor as a team yesterday - missed tackles, silly penalties conceded, poor handling and knock-ons, a bad scrum, terrible lineout, poor at the breakdown, easy goalkicks missed, etc. Yes, we lost as a team." You obviously didn't read this sentence Breffni. This would indicate we have more problems than just at hooker and flyhalf. I also commented on how bad our scrum was separately. What I said was "two of the biggest problems in my opinion" were at hooker and outhalf on Saturday. This doesn't mean they were the only problems we had, or even the two biggest problems.

I think I also criticised O'Connell for his lineout calls, and he plays for Munster, but like miketyson I don't care which province our players come from when wearing an green jersey. I find it pathetic that you continue to have this petty slagging match with myself when our views aren't even that far apart but you give posters who say things like "time for kidney to try the Ulster men Wallace or Humphrey's" or "Sexton definitely let the side down yesterday his kicking was the difference between the sides" a free ride.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 23/03/2010 11:21:50    595935

nocky
County: Wexford
Posts: 1740

595935 "You are correct, we were poor as a team yesterday - missed tackles, silly penalties conceded, poor handling and knock-ons, a bad scrum, terrible lineout, poor at the breakdown, easy goalkicks missed, etc. Yes, we lost as a team." You obviously didn't read this sentence Breffni. This would indicate we have more problems than just at hooker and flyhalf. I also commented on how bad our scrum was separately. What I said was "two of the biggest problems in my opinion" were at hooker and outhalf on Saturday. This doesn't mean they were the only problems we had, or even the two biggest problems.

I think I also criticised O'Connell for his lineout calls, and he plays for Munster, but like miketyson I don't care which province our players come from when wearing an green jersey. I find it pathetic that you continue to have this petty slagging match with myself when our views aren't even that far apart but you give posters who say things like "time for kidney to try the Ulster men Wallace or Humphrey's" or "Sexton definitely let the side down yesterday his kicking was the difference between the sides" a free ride.

Jesus wept! Look nocky this stuff never goes anywhere with you. Forget it. You are always right. I'm just trying to reason with you, I am not forcing opinions. I don't have extreme opinions like yourself. You are more and more like Patrique and 32_4_1 every day with your refusal to accept slightly differing views than your own and smug dismissal of posters. I never slated ROG like you did Sexton, or Flannery like you did Best, but someow I need to defend myself?

You are the big critic of Irish rugby (and soccer), not me.

Get over yourself man!

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12485 - 23/03/2010 11:55:02    595985

The only thing I "slated" Sexton over Breffni is his placekicking (37.5% success rate is just not good enough), and believe it or not I wasn't the only one to do that. You could say I "slated" Best but I think this is a fair criticism as he clearly didn't do a very good job throwing the ball into our lineout on Saturday. I don't think you'd get too many people who disagree with either of those criticisms.

What are the "extreme opinions" I hold? Please do tell me. You seem to have buried the hatchet with miketyson despite the fact that he has been far more extreme in his criticism of your darling Sexton e.g. "Sexton is a LONG LONG way from being an international outhalf".

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 23/03/2010 13:03:37    596097

People shouldn't be so quick to ridicule Sexton. He is playing decent stuff from open play but his poor goal kicking is a huge liability. He offers much more from play than O gara and IMO is a certain starter for 2011 world cup if fit and kicking well. ROG has been a great servant to Irish rugby and is a viable alternative. Every player goes through a period of patchy displays. Sexton will come back stronger. The goal is the World Cup. O gara has had tough times in the past. Most notably his horrendous world cup. People are also forgetting o gara's goal kicking was terrible at times last year.

Hanley2 (Longford) - Posts: 420 - 23/03/2010 13:34:00    596137

"The Guardian" newspapers BEST Newcomer to the 6 nations award went to....................Johnny Sexton!!!!!!!!!!

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 23/03/2010 20:38:38    596831