Ronan O Gara has more experience

jambread (Cork) - Posts: 307 - 21/03/2010 10:37:05    593771

HAG_AND_CHEESE
County: Tipperary
Posts: 2215

593726
patrique

You just can't admit it sexton played bad. linked up a few times but it was a day when the boot would have won the game in positional kicking and also penalalties. Sexton is a great player when the ball has to be throw around but today the boot was needed to grind out a result and if o'gara was playing we would have won it. The open passing game wasn't working if rog was there pulling the strings we would have won.

Grand if we want to throw around the ball then yes use sexton. But with the way the scrum was working and the way the back were playing kicking was the only option.

And to say if sexton hadn't started today we would have been murdered i think o'gara was brought on too late, he steadied the ship when he came on.



Thank you Hag for agreeing with everything I said in my initial post, indeed you have practically reproduced it verbatim.

Now you and I both know that Sexton did not have a great game, but we know why.

The statement about Ireland being murdered without him at the start, was in anticipation of an OTT approach by others, get your retaliation in first as Willie john used to say.

Mind you, he had contributed all ten points.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 21/03/2010 12:27:21    593829

sexton is by far the better player in open play, his kicking has been poor but it is his first season. Irelands strength is in their backs, Sexton allows them to play, O'Gara doesnt.

nocky as a Lunster man you previously stated your extreme dislike for all the leinster 'D4 head' players-----

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4666 - 21/03/2010 12:27:45    593830

jambread
County: Cork
Posts: 65

593771
Ronan O Gara has more experience


So does Jack Kyle and he was possibly the greatest ever, but maybe he too is past it.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 21/03/2010 12:28:10    593831

Sexton had a bad day from the boot and will have to improve to keep his place, just wanted to get that out of the way early.

Now for all this nauseating crap that we would have won if O'Gara was playing from the start, honestly if you think that then your either a wum or a total fool. Yesterdays game was lost up front, no doubt about that what so ever, ive never seen ireland lose so many line outs and once again we were clinically destroyed in the scrum. Now if Sexton was throwing the ball into the line out and then attempting to catch it at the other end then yes it was his fault we had no attacking platform yesterday but last i checked he was just another Irish back who saw pathetic amounts of ball because THE FOWARDS were all over the shop.

If i was an irish back yesterday i would have had somebody take a picture of me with the ball as a souvenir, it really was that bad so lads cop on and stop blaming Sexton, he was only a small part of the reason we lost, the team as a whole played shocking stuff and fairplay to Scotland thats it, The End.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 21/03/2010 12:47:50    593845

patrique, Sexton was on the pitch for 51minutes yesterday. During that time Ireland scored 1try, 1conversion and 1penalty (10points). We conceded 1try, 1drop goal and 3penalties (17points). For O'Gara's 29minutes we scored exactly the same - 1try, 1conversion and 1penalty (10points), but managed to concede only 6points from 2penalties. This sort of undermines your entire argument, as well as the fact that Kidney also had to call on O'Gara to rescue the game in Twickenham.

Of course Sexton wasn't the main reason we lost yesterday, and nowhere did I say he was, but you can't deny that we did better with O'Gara at outhalf than Sexton. O'Gara doesn't make the line-breaks of Sexton, but he passes the ball flat and on the gain line to O'Driscoll, D'Arcy etc. for them to do so.

Rory Best's inability to throw the ball into the lineout (ovethrew 3 and threw 2 in crooked) was a far bigger problem (our scrums have been a problem for years, so nothing new there). Best has never been a good lineout operator for Ireland, it just shows the bias of Ulster posters when some of them were calling for him to start ahead of Flannery before the 6Nations.

My biggest criticism of Kidney would be that he didn't give Sean Cronin a chance this entire campaign (especially yesterday). He played the inexperienced Sexton at outhalf, but wouldn't play Cronin who would surely have been no worse than Best and would have learned from the experience, as Sexton hopefully has.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 21/03/2010 13:53:16    593883

Patrique i think its very apt you used the phrase "Obviously you have no idea of the concept of rugby" in a few posts because it describes you perfectly. Sexton Broke the line once yesterday and has but in 3 horrible performances in a row in the green shirt, he give's nothing... Your highly deluded if you think Sexton is, or ever will be, half the player O'Gara is. You know so much about rugby Patrique how come the defensive brilliance of Sexton needed Wallace to cover him in the 10 channell just like he's done for O'Gara for years?... The most important thing in any sport is having a cool head to make the important decisions, Sexton has the exact opposite... For a good 10 you need to tackle well, pass well, Kick from play, kick to touch, goal kick, organise your outside players and most importantly make the right decision at the right times.... Look at those attributes and tell me who has more O'Gara or Sexton?.... No questions its O'Gara in any currency

miketyson (Limerick) - Posts: 2748 - 21/03/2010 15:46:22    593932

O'Gara

biffo1 (Cavan) - Posts: 148 - 21/03/2010 20:12:31    594264

Mancirish
County: UK
Posts: 314

589206 Sexton's kicking was a joke at the weekend. For me this has to be the key part of his game if he is to take the kicks for the team. Either Ireland use another kicker and keep him in the team for his other attributes or they wait until he sorts this side of his game out. In a tight game when defences are on top it is the penalties that will win you the game. Often you will not get a try against quality opposition, or it will be the penalties that decide a close game. At the moment he is too much of a liability. O'Gara is the choice for me at present, but I don't think he has long left in his legs.


Well lads Sexton definitely let the side down yesterday his kicking was the difference between the sides as I professed may happen last week. Scotland were the better side on the day and deserved there victory. A sad way to leave Croke Park on that performance.

Good post Nocky I totally agree with your thoughts on the game. Sometimes when I look at Sexton I wonder if he would be better suited to an inside centre, but he certainly isn't going to get that spot at the moment. Ireland should stick with O'Gara for now and hope that Sexton can step up in the future. If he doesn't improve I would be looking else where.

Mancirish (UK) - Posts: 2200 - 21/03/2010 21:59:35    594523

For God sake lads, the winning or losing of the game on Saturday was nothing to do with Sexton or O'Gara. Why do so many of ye feel the need to hang players out to dry?

We made a lot of unforced errors and Scotland played better than us in almost every department, and we still could have won it.

Some of ye need to get over yourselves.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12485 - 22/03/2010 10:18:22    594627

Nocky and MIketyson, why do you bother following the Irish rugby team at all?

Stick to Munster, they evidently have all the best players.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12485 - 22/03/2010 10:21:41    594629

Nocky and Miketyson, i'm sorry but there is so much rubbish in your two posts its untrue.

You even managed a dig at Ulster and called it Ulster bias!!! Cop yourself on!

"3 horrible performances in a row" forget about it mike, thats an abosolute joke of a statement, go to the back of the class.

Looks like Htaem is the only one fit to pass comment in a balanced manner.

Read his post, take deep breaths and get back to us.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12485 - 22/03/2010 10:27:59    594633

No contest. ROG every day.

laflour (Cavan) - Posts: 528 - 22/03/2010 11:08:34    594679

Please point out the part of my posts which do you disagree with and think are "rubbish" Breffni. I will now do the same with your posts (it's called having a rational debate).

You say winning and losing the game yesterday had nothing to do with Sexton and O'Gara - not true. Had we scored all our goal kicks we would have won, despite how bad our lineout, scrum, defense (10missed tackles) and ballhandling was. I read Htaem's post yesterday and have re-read it today and agree with a lot of it, if you actually read my posts you would see that. Where we disagree slightly is on whether we it would have made a difference starting with O'Gara at outhalf over Sexton. Why can't anyone think O'Gara is a better outhalf than Sexton without being accused of a Munster bias?

There is no doubt that Rory Best's inability to perform the relatively simple task (compared to an american football quarterback, say) of throwing the rugby ball into the the correct area of the lineout was a major problem. The jumpers can't be blamed for 3 overthrows and 2 crooked - this is on Best. I would have liked to have seen Cronin given a chance, just as Sexton has been during this camaign.

Finally, here are the goalkicking percentages of each team's kicker(s) from this years Six Nations:
Ronan O'Gara 100%
Stephen Jones 86%
Morgan Parra 86%
Mirco Bergamasco 83%
Chris Paterson 80%
Dan Parks 73%
Jonny Wilkinson 73%
Toby Flood 73%
Jonathan Sexton 38%

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 22/03/2010 11:14:07    594687

I'd take either... ;)

rossielassie (Roscommon) - Posts: 672 - 22/03/2010 11:20:33    594699

re: Patrique

Nope i don't agree with you the statement i took issue with was

"Yep, without Sexton today it would have been murder."

How can that be justified sexton had a poor game kicking from hand was bad bar one of two brakes throght the scotish defence his delivery from hand was bad. He wonce again missed kickes which is the bread and butter of an outhalf. My arguement was that the running game wasn't working so o'gara should have been used as he's better with positional kicking. And to answer on the running game o'gara can produce there too (maybe not as strong as sexton) i could be wrong but was o'gara outhalf when ireland where playing their best rugby winning the grandslam.

Sexton is not at the level yet he'd good displays against south africa and figi but is not consistant enough yet hence my arguement of starting o'gara and maybe bringing on sexton at this point in time. O'Gara when throght a phase where he was off form with his kicking and was dropped should sexton also be now. Also with the pack not producing in open play and the backs being disjoined was it crying out for o'gara positional kicking much better to have a line out in the oppositions 22 rather than scrum against you in your own half they way the irish scrum is proforming. I know the irish line-out didn't function the best but still they might loose position in the opposition half instead of penalties from scrums.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 22/03/2010 12:13:24    594795

I gave Sexton time and defended him but have to say now 100% o'gara. When we get a penalty in kicking distance it is supposed to be a positive for the team. For Ireland when Sexton was playing in the six nations it was a disadvantage, only 38% of kicks converted shows that.

In my humble opinion Ireland are a better team with O'gara on at the minute. Maybe that will change. Sextons kicking at the minute is actually an embarasment, nearly half the success rate of the next worse.

Derry_ledd (Derry) - Posts: 2093 - 22/03/2010 12:40:12    594859

Breffni, Sexton has been terrible in these 3 games and i never said anything about Ulster bias. O'Gara at the moment is much the better player and probably will be in 1 years time for the world cup. If the past 3 games dont show you Sexton isnt ready for it i dont know what will. And its not just his goal kicking his general play lacks coordination. The 10 needs to be the 1st reciever as often as possible but Sexton rarely is. He's lack of kicking to touch (im not saying he should kick everytime but at the right times) takes so much stability away from Ireland and thats the way Ireland play, Get a good position upfield and attack from there not aimless running from nowhere

miketyson (Limerick) - Posts: 2748 - 22/03/2010 12:40:13    594860

Those stats are misleading nocky, as they were against different teams, from different positions and in different weather conditions.

Here a very scientific and relvant stat:

No of munster players that can take any of the blame from Nocky or Miketyson: 0
No of other players: Loads

I'm not here to make scapegoats, the team failed as a unit. I can pinpoint loads of players who didn't reach their own high standards but don't. Ye're logic seems to be "the munster man is better". The line-out failed cos of Rory Best, the team lost cos of Johnny Sexton. It is nowhere near that simple.

You even brought the "Ulster bias" line in for good measure as if makes your extreme criticism more credible!! Pathetic!

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12485 - 22/03/2010 12:49:02    594875

Ps Its important to note that I am not criticising anybody, just defending players from extreme criticism from "fans". Patrique's slating of O'Gara is equally as misplaced.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12485 - 22/03/2010 12:56:30    594894