see you try and have a discussion with a few nordies and they cant accept you might have a differnt point of view and then they start trying to insult you by calling you a jackeen , well when you start throwing insults you lose

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 23/02/2010 21:53:04    571489

jackeen.
the butchers apron. there must be a link somewhere?

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 23/02/2010 21:53:51    571491

derryman
County: Derry
Posts: 990

571463 There are a couple of posters here that for some reason or another cause the word Jackeen to spring to mind. For the life of me i cant think why ...Explain can't wait for you to enlighten me

tomaoo7 (Dublin) - Posts: 5896 - 23/02/2010 21:54:01    571493

23/02/2010 21:44:00
Orlaith
County: Derry
Posts: 2705

571459
Aw well he could of been for a punishment but it was still allegedly done by dissidents. I dont see a need for someone to get shot though?
__________

He could have been encroaching on the wrong drug lord's turf.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 23/02/2010 21:55:03    571500

hipster
County: Dublin
Posts: 1259

571469 one mans terrorist is anothers hero

Terror like beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder. There is an interesting inscription on a monument at Kilmichael. Be well worth the journey just to read it and contemplate the fundamental truth of it.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 23/02/2010 21:55:33    571501

Once again Just so Hipster can stop talking rubbish. At least get your facts right


derryman
County: Derry
Posts: 990

571454 ta32

No Offence taken . The only reason I asked you was because I was afraid of Hipster, he seems a bit crabbed. By the way would you tell him that as far as I can remember it might have been Ian Paisley and the ULSTER WORKERS strike that brought down Sunningdale. I am afraid of getting my nose bit off.
So the Provos really did not get the chance to reject it had they so wished

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 23/02/2010 21:57:51    571509

Now lads debate the topic not the poster that goes for all of you please.

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 23/02/2010 21:59:30    571515

i was in my bedroom when it happened and no joke i thought my window was going to come through! felt like an earthquake too! street lights were off in half of the town. was weird like because brought back a few memories. not nice ones!

gaelic_life (Down) - Posts: 286 - 23/02/2010 22:03:04    571520

We should remember that the men of 1916 had little or no support as well. It was the same for Robert Emmet in 1803 and in 1848 and 1867.

However, in my opinion, the problem with the RIRA, CIRA etc is that they all believe that armed struggle is a revolutionary principal and therefore believe that if they are not using armed struggle, their revolutionary struggle is not real and is a sell- out. For that reason, they believe their very limited attack in Newry is hugely important because it keeps armed struggle alive, the flame for freedom burning.
However the reality is that armed struggle is a revolutionary tactic, that should only be used when it can further the cause of what it is being used for, in this case the cause of a United Ireland. I don't think there is anyone here that would say they are moving us closer to this. Instead what it is doing is landing many good young idealistic men in prison, a waste of their lives.

They would be best to do what the IRA did in 1962. Dump the weapons (for now) and start building politically. They do have a strong political message. Their views on the GFA, their opposition to PSF etc are all valid. But they would gain more support (today) by building on these politically.

JPM1981 (Kildare) - Posts: 825 - 24/02/2010 09:48:43    571571

Filth of the earth.... ANTI-TREATY types always are... history has proven that once and for all.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 24/02/2010 10:08:13    571586

23/02/2010 21:43:58
Dellboypolecat
County: Tyrone
Posts: 10158

571458 hipster
County: Dublin
Posts: 1257

571419
so only when an agreement suits your needs then you be happy your having a laugh and dell you support punishment beatings is that not against the law

Am against poeple that destroy housing estates through drugs etc . So if punished beatings need to be done to stop these things well i agree with it . But not blowing up poeple or killing them.

________________
Re Punishment beating

1. Who decides what is a crime ?
2. Who decides what the punishment is
3. Who decides if it should be a warning, Beating or shooting
4. Who decides on the persons guilt
5. What representation does the accused have
6. Who ensures that the prosecutors are of appropriate standing, training and independence to make the above decisions

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 24/02/2010 10:11:18    571588

I support Sinn Fein and the Peace Process. The best way to sideline the dissidents is to make rapid political progress. The DUP have held things up for the last 3 years and this has given the dissidents time and space to grow. The logjam now appears to be broken and hopefully we will have full devolution of Justice within weeks. The present situation in the North is a million miles away from the seventies. There is no border now, you can travel the length and breadth of our island without hindrance. Catholics in the North are now equal citizens. The majority of graduates from Queens on an annual basis are now Catholic. Most posters here were not around in the fifties and sixties and have no comprehension of what life was like for Catholics under the monolithic Unionist regime of that time. This monolith has been smashed, Sinn Fein has run rings around the Unionists and the DUP, it is on its way to being the largest party in the North. Total unity is of course the eventual aim, Britain's resolve to keep the North has been broken long ago, from here it is the softly softly approach of persuasion.

corkcelt (Cork) - Posts: 4388 - 24/02/2010 10:30:57    571607

tomaoo7
County: Dublin
Posts: 5119

571432 Dellboypolecat
County: Tyrone
Posts: 10150

571409 Orlaith
County: Derry
Posts: 2701

571345
A 29-year-old man has been shot in both legs in Londonderry.


Punishiment beatings are different as this person could be up to things he should not be. ...................So does that make it ok to shoot someone in the legs

Yes it does. People engaged in crimes against the community, like drug pushing, violence, theft, threatening and abusive behaviour ans so on, should be punished. Personally I think shooting them in both legs is soft. They should be put at the end of a rope. Then we will see who commits any more crime in their neighbourhood. But of course with all these lefty human rights groups around, the justice system will always favour the scum who cause trouble.

Scruffy2Donut (Cavan) - Posts: 1112 - 24/02/2010 11:53:36    571688

Orlaith
County: Derry
Posts: 2705

571345 A 29-year-old man has been shot in both legs in Londonderry.


And to think youse Derry wans complain when other counties slag you about Londonderry;)

orange and blue (Tyrone) - Posts: 1080 - 24/02/2010 11:59:50    571702

Scruffy2Donut
County: Cavan
Posts: 224

571688 tomaoo7
County: Dublin
Posts: 5119

571432 Dellboypolecat
County: Tyrone
Posts: 10150

571409 Orlaith
County: Derry
Posts: 2701

571345
A 29-year-old man has been shot in both legs in Londonderry.


Punishiment beatings are different as this person could be up to things he should not be. ...................So does that make it ok to shoot someone in the legs

Yes it does. People engaged in crimes against the community, like drug pushing, violence, theft, threatening and abusive behaviour ans so on, should be punished. Personally I think shooting them in both legs is soft. They should be put at the end of a rope. Then we will see who commits any more crime in their neighbourhood. But of course with all these lefty human rights groups around, the justice system will always favour the scum who cause trouble. ..........Your in good company with the other gobeens on this thread

tomaoo7 (Dublin) - Posts: 5896 - 24/02/2010 12:00:21    571706

DBPC/Scruffy etc


If you are in favour of punishment beatings - what happens if it transpires that the recipient was innocent
Are the people that gave the beatings without judge and jury now guilty of simple assault
What is their punishment and who gives it ?

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 24/02/2010 12:17:40    571727

ruanua
County: Donegal
Posts: 2939
________________
Re Punishment beating

1. Who decides what is a crime ?
2. Who decides what the punishment is
3. Who decides if it should be a warning, Beating or shooting
4. Who decides on the persons guilt
5. What representation does the accused have
6. Who ensures that the prosecutors are of appropriate standing, training and independence to make the above decisions

Rua, an interesting set of questions. I am studying for a degree in Criminal Justice and have come across the topic of vigilantism. A crime is essentially defined as a breach of the laws of society as defined by the people through their government. Crimes and criminal behaviour are fluid however in that a crime in one country is not in another. It is therefore quite impossible to decide what is a crime. It is dictated by the views/morals/principles of individuals at a given time. People selling drugs or engaged in anti social behaviour are to my mind involve in criminal behaviour. Our current adversarial system has in my opinion isolated the people from the justice system. The system is now a matter of barristers and solicitors and judges without much recourse to the victim. Human Rights lobbys etc have ensured that the system is heavily weighed in favour of the criminal in terms of investigative practices, rules of evidence etc. This, along with the apparent lack of success by the Gardai/PSNI in controlling and preventing criminal behaviour of this nature has led to neighbourhoods living in fear. Although I agree with your sentiments, I am also quite aware from having family in some very republican areas that in the times of PIRA etc, they would unequivocally agree that their areas were safer. You could leave the back door open, you could leave the car open, old people did not fear being attacked in the street never mind their homes. Gangs of youths terrorising the people of estates was unheard of. Although the justice served by vigilantes is summary and without a strong burden of proof, it is and was effective. If a few of the gun-toting louts in Limerick were aware that if they engaged the Gardai that they would be met with leathal force in return, no questions asked, I would suggest that it would be a safer city. The PC/HR lobbies have created the vacuum wherby crime now pays and sometimes maybe stepping outside the law is the way to redeem it!

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 24/02/2010 13:51:04    571836

omaghredhand
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1411

571836 ruanua
County: Donegal
Posts: 2939
________________
Re Punishment beating

1. Who decides what is a crime ?
2. Who decides what the punishment is
3. Who decides if it should be a warning, Beating or shooting
4. Who decides on the persons guilt
5. What representation does the accused have
6. Who ensures that the prosecutors are of appropriate standing, training and independence to make the above decisions

Rua, an interesting set of questions. I am studying for a degree in Criminal Justice and have come across the topic of vigilantism. A crime is essentially defined as a breach of the laws of society as defined by the people through their government. Crimes and criminal behaviour are fluid however in that a crime in one country is not in another. It is therefore quite impossible to decide what is a crime. It is dictated by the views/morals/principles of individuals at a given time. People selling drugs or engaged in anti social behaviour are to my mind involve in criminal behaviour. Our current adversarial system has in my opinion isolated the people from the justice system. The system is now a matter of barristers and solicitors and judges without much recourse to the victim. Human Rights lobbys etc have ensured that the system is heavily weighed in favour of the criminal in terms of investigative practices, rules of evidence etc. This, along with the apparent lack of success by the Gardai/PSNI in controlling and preventing criminal behaviour of this nature has led to neighbourhoods living in fear. Although I agree with your sentiments, I am also quite aware from having family in some very republican areas that in the times of PIRA etc, they would unequivocally agree that their areas were safer. You could leave the back door open, you could leave the car open, old people did not fear being attacked in the street never mind their homes. Gangs of youths terrorising the people of estates was unheard of. Although the justice served by vigilantes is summary and without a strong burden of proof, it is and was effective. If a few of the gun-toting louts in Limerick were aware that if they engaged the Gardai that they would be met with leathal force in return, no questions asked, I would suggest that it would be a safer city. The PC/HR lobbies have created the vacuum wherby crime now pays and sometimes maybe stepping outside the law is the way to redeem it!

Excellent response...here here.

Scruffy2Donut (Cavan) - Posts: 1112 - 24/02/2010 14:51:43    571916

omaghredhand
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1411

571836 ruanua
County: Donegal
Posts: 2939
________________
Re Punishment beating

1. Who decides what is a crime ?
2. Who decides what the punishment is
3. Who decides if it should be a warning, Beating or shooting
4. Who decides on the persons guilt
5. What representation does the accused have
6. Who ensures that the prosecutors are of appropriate standing, training and independence to make the above decisions

Rua, an interesting set of questions. I am studying for a degree in Criminal Justice and have come across the topic of vigilantism. A crime is essentially defined as a breach of the laws of society as defined by the people through their government. Crimes and criminal behaviour are fluid however in that a crime in one country is not in another. It is therefore quite impossible to decide what is a crime. It is dictated by the views/morals/principles of individuals at a given time. People selling drugs or engaged in anti social behaviour are to my mind involve in criminal behaviour. Our current adversarial system has in my opinion isolated the people from the justice system. The system is now a matter of barristers and solicitors and judges without much recourse to the victim. Human Rights lobbys etc have ensured that the system is heavily weighed in favour of the criminal in terms of investigative practices, rules of evidence etc. This, along with the apparent lack of success by the Gardai/PSNI in controlling and preventing criminal behaviour of this nature has led to neighbourhoods living in fear. Although I agree with your sentiments, I am also quite aware from having family in some very republican areas that in the times of PIRA etc, they would unequivocally agree that their areas were safer. You could leave the back door open, you could leave the car open, old people did not fear being attacked in the street never mind their homes. Gangs of youths terrorising the people of estates was unheard of. Although the justice served by vigilantes is summary and without a strong burden of proof, it is and was effective. If a few of the gun-toting louts in Limerick were aware that if they engaged the Gardai that they would be met with leathal force in return, no questions asked, I would suggest that it would be a safer city. The PC/HR lobbies have created the vacuum wherby crime now pays and sometimes maybe stepping outside the law is the way to redeem it! ......................Amazing stuff omaghredhand surprised by you..

tomaoo7 (Dublin) - Posts: 5896 - 24/02/2010 14:51:45    571917

i'll suspiciously take that as a compliment Toma ;-)

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 24/02/2010 15:26:25    571969