Dr.Shephard
County: Leitrim
Posts: 1144



To be honest Doc... I'll just step aside on this issue. I'm just telling you what I heard.. yes perhaps ur more spot on with it being a possible (Republican Sinn Fein) attack

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 17/02/2010 14:13:10    564268

jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 4317


Good man

Dr.Shephard (Leitrim) - Posts: 2187 - 17/02/2010 14:27:41    564304

Dr.Shephard
County: Leitrim
Posts: 1145

564304 jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 4317


Good man

Hey, you've obviously got a very good understanding of Sinn Fein... I think if it was anything to do with "POLITICS" then it's certainly got more to do with the more radical Republican approach

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 17/02/2010 14:57:23    564347

jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 4336

564941 DellboypolecatCounty

: Tyrone
Posts: 10022

564892 Burn everyone of them and keep them out of towns , villages etc ,

Dell this username of yours... I have a question regarding the origins of it...!

You feel embarrassed about the circumstances that gave birth to ur nickname.... yes?

Were you perhaps under the influence of a legal high at the time?


C'mon Delly welly.... ? Well........?

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 18/02/2010 11:31:49    565247

I hear now that the Government is going to outlaw Head shops full stop....

Well done powers that be...! That's precisely what the drug dealers wanted when they burnt down these shops... one of which had people living over it!

Again congrats to you in Government.... for doing the drug dealers a favour! They'll soon be able to buy plenty of more guns and drugs with the added bonus coming in from the normal head shop customer.

Your lack of understanding on this subject is incredible... clueless....!

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 03/03/2010 14:22:21    577980

jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 4552



This is going to ignite the debate we had not long ago Jimbo and I can see you feel strongly about it as I do, however I don't think I will again be partaking in such a debate as quite a lot of people just won't listen to logic. It gets very frustrating trying to argue with people who allow their opinions to be formed by the most conservative members of the media.

Dr.Shephard (Leitrim) - Posts: 2187 - 03/03/2010 15:03:44    578043

03/03/2010 15:03:44
Dr.Shephard
County: Leitrim
Posts: 1248

578043 jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 4552

This is going to ignite the debate we had not long ago Jimbo and I can see you feel strongly about it as I do, however I don't think I will again be partaking in such a debate as quite a lot of people just won't listen to logic. It gets very frustrating trying to argue with people who allow their opinions to be formed by the most conservative members of the media.

I think this post represents a lot of what is wrong with debate on this site. You are asserting that because someone has a different opinion than you that they didn't form it themselves - rather they were brainwashed into it by the media. On the other hand I've no doubt that you believe you formed your own opinion through critical analysis of the facts presented to you. Or in other words, you are a clever thinker while anyone who disagrees is a brainwashed fool who can't understand logic.
It's an important life lesson - don't think you are smarter than everyone else playing the game. You most likely aren't.

RMDrive (Donegal) - Posts: 2202 - 03/03/2010 16:05:21    578127

RMDrive
County: Donegal
Posts: 2035

578127 03/03/2010 15:03:44
Dr.Shephard
County: Leitrim
Posts: 1248

578043 jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 4552

This is going to ignite the debate we had not long ago Jimbo and I can see you feel strongly about it as I do, however I don't think I will again be partaking in such a debate as quite a lot of people just won't listen to logic. It gets very frustrating trying to argue with people who allow their opinions to be formed by the most conservative members of the media.

I think this post represents a lot of what is wrong with debate on this site. You are asserting that because someone has a different opinion than you that they didn't form it themselves - rather they were brainwashed into it by the media. On the other hand I've no doubt that you believe you formed your own opinion through critical analysis of the facts presented to you. Or in other words, you are a clever thinker while anyone who disagrees is a brainwashed fool who can't understand logic.
It's an important life lesson - don't think you are smarter than everyone else playing the game. You most likely aren't.

You can always rely on RM to show up with his wise words...

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 03/03/2010 16:52:46    578185

I accept the argument that it is likely that drugs would be safer if they were legalised. I also accept the point that it is likely that some soft drugs are probably much less harmful than the results of over indulgence in alcohol.

However in small moderation alcohol is fairly benign and I am sure that in moderation its adverse side effects are much lower on the scale than the effects of other drugs.

Personally I don't take drugs mainly because when I was younger they were never really a part of the crowd I mixed with - though drinking to excess would have been. Possibly I would feel that drinking till you drop was probably not frowned upon when I was in my late teens or early twenties and hence to some extent was socially acceptable. As you grow older taking a good drink is still acceptable but not being in control or having black outs or falling down is not so hence most people modify their drinking habits to be on the borderline of what again I would classify as being socially acceptable.

Clearly there are many people who start drinking at a level that they feel is socially acceptable and don't manage to control it and obviously this can cause tragic problems.

I am at a stage in my life now where to be honest I wouldn't have clue where to go about getting drugs - I have no desire to get them and even if I did I would be more nervous of the people I would have to deal with, what posions might be in the mix, the risk that other people would find our or even worse that I would get caught breaking the law, any of which could have very negative implications to my personal and professional life.

In essence I would not even think of taking drugs possibly because in my world it is not socially acceptable.

My point is that if they were legal and hence accepted socially there is would clearly be much higher usage and hence a much higher risk that a certain percentage of the population would lose control and become addicts etc with wider social consequences. So maybe by not legalising drugs we are protecting a certain percentage of the population from the risk of self harm.

Clearly the same argument could be made about alcohol but the problem is that we are starting from a place where it is acceptable so the demand in an illicit market would be unmanageable but maybe that is only because we have had generations of acceptance.

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 03/03/2010 17:28:20    578227

Dr.Shephard
County: Leitrim
Posts: 1249

578043 jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 4552



This is going to ignite the debate we had not long ago Jimbo and I can see you feel strongly about it as I do, however I don't think I will again be partaking in such a debate as quite a lot of people just won't listen to logic. It gets very frustrating trying to argue with people who allow their opinions to be formed by the most conservative members of the media.

You've a strong point Doc... If Rm actually read some of the replies in the anti-Head shop debate he may change his mind. It was quite obvious that a number of posters really dont understand the subject.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 03/03/2010 17:39:56    578239

You obviously didn't follow this thread very closely RMDrive. If you had you would see the ridiculous statements from the "anti-drugs" side of the debate. People have a real problem accepting and understanding that alcohol, tobacco, aspirin, morphine, valium etc. are drugs.

Here are a few examples from the first few pages of the thread "Drugs are a dirty, dangerous, murky business and should ALL be banned", "I despise and look down on people who take drugs", "I can only assume that people who take drugs have something missing in their lives", "Destroy all druggies...zero tolerance for those who ignore the law" and "Drugs are evil. They corrupt good people by forcing them into a life of crime to feed their habit."

Some posters it seems are incapable of debating this issue. If you want to have a reasoned debate on the subject then I'm sure Dr.Shephard, myself and others would be glad to join in. Perhaps you could explain why you believe legalising certain illegal drugs would be a bad idea.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 03/03/2010 17:42:25    578243

Plans to ban a range of substances sold in head shops have been welcomed by the National Advisory Committee on Drugs.

Youth Work Ireland has also welcomed the move but criticised the Government's response as slow.

It also warned that there are other products not covered by yesterday's announcement.

AdvertisementFrom June, it will be against the law to carry or sell Kettamine, liquid ecstasy, Spice, Snow, Magic, Blow, Tapentadol, BZP derivatives and many more.

The Government must now notify the European Union and it will take three months before the substances become illegal - when they come under the Misuse of Drugs Act.

At the moment, it is legal to go into a head shop and buy legal highs, which mimic the effects of popular illegal drugs.

There has been a big increase in the number of head shops in Ireland in recent months but, following protests, the Government has now decided to ban the sale and possession of many of such legal highs.

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 03/03/2010 18:10:19    578301

No side wins in this kind of debate. Wherever there is an addiction problem whether it be drugs, alcohol, cigs, gambling etc one thing is for sure .. society loses !!
Addictions clog up our prisons, welfare system, hospitals etc Some people cannot stop at recreational use of alcohol, drugs etc and because they have addictive personalities we all suffer and we all pay. I listened carefully to all sides of the debate and did so with an open mind and still do not know where i stand. Head Shops will not stop Drug Dealers because they will offer stronger / cheaper stuff to combat the Head Shops. Anyone who thinks that legalising drugs will help combat the problem is only fooling themselves in my opinion !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 03/03/2010 18:33:53    578339

i was talking to a guard in mayo and i was saying mayo has a serious drug problem he said REALLY i said yeah the lack of them LOL

GerryMc (Mayo) - Posts: 218 - 03/03/2010 20:34:10    578534

ruanua, that is the first sensible argument for the maintaining of the status quo I have read on this thread, but feel that the advantages of legalising drugs far and away outweigh the negatives. Off the top of my head - if drugs are legalised:

- drug dealers are eliminated (this is the only way this will happen, while drugs are illegal there will still always be demand)
- less crime
- less guns
- less people in our prisons
- people buying marijuana no longer have drug dealers pushing harder drugs on them
- previously illegal drugs are taxed and regulated
- government collects hundreds of millions in taxes from newly-legalised drugs (money which was previously going to gangs)
- drugs can be tested and clearly labelled
- money can be spent on better education for our children about their effects
- money can be spent on rehabilitation programmes for addicts
- money can be spent on our hospitals who have to deal with people who overdose

Also, the use of illegal recreational drugs (e.g. marijuana, but particularly cocaine) is quite commonplace among young(ish) professionals (20s-40s) if some commentators in the media are to be believed (which I'll admit is highly debatable), so although it might be a taboo subject among your peers perhaps the percentage of the population you fall into who are deterred from experimenting by the illegality of such substances is not quite as large as you might think.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 03/03/2010 20:45:18    578550

Just noticed that all the Head Shop owners interviewed on t.v./radio have English accents. Are these Head Shops opened in England, U.S. etc at all ? Anyone know ?

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 03/03/2010 21:33:24    578616

Nocky,

Are you serious ? Do you not think the dealers will undercut, strengthen their products to appeal to users i.e. "you will get a better buzz from my stuff than from that weak rubbish in the Head Shops" !! They will not just go away you know !! Also do you not think the drug dealers will target / threaten/ shoot the Head Shop owners if they effect their business. Your solution is too simple !! The drug dealers will just not roll over and go out of business !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 03/03/2010 21:39:24    578623

Cavan_Slasher
County: Cavan
Posts: 4072

Are you serious ? Do you not think the dealers will undercut, strengthen their products to appeal to users i.e. "you will get a better buzz from my stuff than from that weak rubbish in the Head Shops" !! They will not just go away you know !! Also do you not think the drug dealers will target / threaten/ shoot the Head Shop owners if they effect their business. Your solution is too simple !! The drug dealers will just not roll over and go out of business !!
________________

Of course some of the dealers may attempt to undercut and strengthen their products, and there will still be smuggling (just as there is with cigarettes currently), but the vast majority of people would prefer and choose to buy from reputable (legal) sources. I did not state that ALL drug dealers would be eliminated, but surely you have to agree that many would be, and those remaining will also be weakened from a massive drop in their income.

And are you serious? Do you actually think drug dealers would be successful in a campaign against the legalisation of drugs by attacking pharmacies??

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 04/03/2010 11:24:40    578784

Nocky, who do you think burned down the two Head Shops already ? I think drug dealers did, i may be wrong !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 04/03/2010 13:43:23    578974

Cavan_Slasher
County: Cavan
Posts: 4077

578974 Nocky, who do you think burned down the two Head Shops already ? I think drug dealers did, i may be wrong !!

Slash... I can see the authorities turning a blind eye to a "Evil" Head shop being burnt down... sure arent a large number of TD's publicans!! also bad for their own trade....but if Drug Dealers start burning down Government backed pharmacies selling legal drugs... then expect the army to be called in.

You cant compare the two situations bro.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 04/03/2010 14:19:11    579030