I haven't posted on this forum in a year or so,the reason being i felt nearly all threads were decending into name calling and general silliness but this is a great thread and fair play to the mods for letting the debate go on.Firstly I'm happy to note the majority of posters take an informed and mature stance on drugs and there are less than i would have expected of the "kill all druggie" brigade.Firstly let me explain that over the years espeically in my early 20's i took everything except heroin as did most of my friends (notice how everybody here admitting to illegal drug use didnt take heroin as people know its a genuinely dangerous nasty drug,i would presume as in my case this decision was taken through having all the information and knowing the facts) Now I don't really take anything as i grew out of it but still might have a smoke once in a while or a night out on extascy once a year or so.Everything to excess is bad,moderation is the key.Alcohol is the only drug ive ever abused or has caused me harm.When i was younger i got involved in fights/accidents with drink.Now I drink moderately but this drug is worse than any of the other ones ive taken in my and most of my friends opinion.Why are some posters here maintaining that someone who has a smoke is druggie scum whereas someone who gets hammered down the pub or even just has the odd pint is different? is it because the government says its legal to take one drug and not the other? Would you really let those gombeen men tell you what's what.Finally i think it's best summed up by this,years ago in this country we though it wasn't strange to go to a preist for marital advice including that of a sexual nature.I think its coming to the stage where some clown (like a few on this debate) telling the masses about the danger of drugs when they know nothing about them only rubbish like "just say no" will be seen in the same light.

kimbap (Mayo) - Posts: 81 - 13/02/2010 11:30:07    560265

kimbap,

Anyone telling young people to "just say no" is wasting their time. They should be told to make "informed choices" about what they take. As i said in an earlier post, its fine and dandy that many people have took drugs and have come out the other side but we have to think also of the people who died or who have had their lives wrecked by drugs and who have not come out the other side intact. The fact is that many of the banned drugs are banned because they ARE dangerous. They have been tried and tested and banned because of the side effects / dangers they caused to people !!

I am with you on the drink issue as its the most abused drug of all and causes more trouble than any of the others but with everything else its a matter of how much you take and how you handle it. I know lads and if you gave them a packet of wine gums you would have had to remove the black and red ones because they would fight after eating them. Some people just can't manage drink at all !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 13/02/2010 12:00:36    560283

cavan slasher .

thats a really good post slasher.
a really good analysis well put.

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 13/02/2010 12:19:16    560289

Slasher,
I agree with you on the informed decision part,that is my whole arguement.When i was in school we had some reformed heroin addict come to talk to us about the dangers of drugs.He had ruined his life and his mother had died of a broken heart with the rest of his family wanting nothing to do with him.Everyone left that talk adamant they would never do drugs.Then fast forward a few few years when i was in college and all my mates are smoking a bit of weed and look like they're having a great time,i try some and guess what? my life doesn't fall apart and i have a great night.I thought class A drugs were a different story with the media hilighting every death due to exctasy in the mid 90's,then i try that and really have a great time,same with coke.The point is when you throw all "drugs" into the same catagory you are being dishonest and kids will figure this out.Nobody says alcohol is all bad,doctors and everybody else say to enjoy it in moderation.The same information and knowledge should be applied to all drugs.The hyprocricy and ignorance on his issue is what bothers me.

kimbap (Mayo) - Posts: 81 - 13/02/2010 12:29:59    560294

What would alice say????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HmJQyS8QVw

duke_raul (Tyrone) - Posts: 993 - 13/02/2010 13:22:30    560331

kimbap,

yes i agree with most of what you have said but remember not everyone can take it or leave it like you did. That is what makes us all different in life. Another thing about the illegal drugs is that they do not come in a packet with a list of ingredients like legalised drugs do. You don't know what you are putting into your system when you take coke, e's or heroin and many other illegal drugs and you don't know the condition of the back-street lab either !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 13/02/2010 13:29:18    560337

13/02/2010 13:29:18
Cavan_Slasher
County: Cavan
Posts: 3905

560337
kimbap,

yes i agree with most of what you have said but remember not everyone can take it or leave it like you did. That is what makes us all different in life. Another thing about the illegal drugs is that they do not come in a packet with a list of ingredients like legalised drugs do. You don't know what you are putting into your system when you take coke, e's or heroin and many other illegal drugs and you don't know the condition of the back-street lab either !!
__________

That is the one of the best arguments for the legalisation of drugs. By taking drugs off the streets and away from the profit-at-all-costs/junkie dealers they can be controlled, and the drugs can be pure and much safer. You can even then sell them in packets with a list of the ingredients if you want.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 13/02/2010 13:49:29    560351

Again Slasher, I think we're on the same page here more or less.Legalisation or regulation is a whole other arguement.If currently illegal drugs were brought into the mainstream like alcohol,tobacco they would come with the ingredients on the back.For example the rubbish hash you get in ireland that is cut with all sorts of stuff would prob not be allowed sold and i imagine would be replaced by something like afghan or Morroccan hash.Grass would come with varying degrees of strengh and would be marked as such like in Holland.The government would make a fortune off the tax and there would be generally more real info available which would be great.
The issue of people being able to take it or leave is a difficult one,some people take too many pills,some drink too much,some eat too much burgers.As things stand at the moment you can get anything you want but sometimes you have to deal with people you would normally cross the street to avoid and you've no idea of the quality/strenght of what you're buying.

kimbap (Mayo) - Posts: 81 - 13/02/2010 13:52:47    560355

duke_raul
County: Tyrone
Posts: 571

560331 What would alice say????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HmJQyS8QVw


Alice? Alice? Who the **** is Alice?

Royal_Girl2k9 (Meath) - Posts: 2107 - 13/02/2010 14:23:12    560389

This is a very interesting debate and made more so because there are people taking part who are actually currently using drugs and giving their unbiased views however i woluld like to hear from those who have had bad experiences with drugs as well to see how they feel about the proposals to have drugs legalised. i wonder if any will give their views !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 13/02/2010 14:31:13    560399

Discussing 'drugs' is difficult because the term is so general, it incompases everything from caffine to heroin. It is ridiculous to have substances like marijuana illegal. Many of the health problems associated with it come from the very fact that it is illegal and mixed with tar and diesel etc etc. It should of course be legalised taxed and regulated.

Some poster have asked whether people would like their children to take drugs?

Alot of young people are going to smoke marijuana whether their parents want them to or not. If my children were going to do this I would much rather he/she could go to shop and buy clean grass/hashish instead of having to go to some back street drug dealer who would also push harder drugs like cocaine and heroin on them as is the situation a present.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4649 - 13/02/2010 15:42:05    560448

im 17 ... im from dublin .. and i can honestly say hand on heart that i have never tried drugs of any kind and that includes tobacco .. in saying that i am by no means innocent when it comes to causing a bit of a rucuss , i do enjoy the weekly can or two of bulmers in a field somewhere but thats as far as it will go , i dont cause trouble for anyone and thats the way itll stay .

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13654 - 14/02/2010 13:48:34    560875

Alcohol is a drug wayno, and one of the more dangerous ones at that.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 14/02/2010 15:23:10    560934

i can honestly say hand on heart that i have never tried drugs of any kind.... i do enjoy the weekly can or two of bulmers

sorry to break it to you wayno....

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4649 - 14/02/2010 15:30:11    560942

well anything else then .. smokes .. weed hash coke heroine and all that jazz .. sorry about the misunderstandin

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13654 - 14/02/2010 15:57:56    560956

Ive never taken any illegal drugs in my life nor see the need to. I do drink on weekends like everyone else. Surprised at the amount of people who have admitted to doing/ have taken drugs, bit of an eye opener.

rossielassie (Roscommon) - Posts: 672 - 14/02/2010 19:44:03    561119

Only 2% of the drugs being brought to ireland are actually caught. So that means that the drugs are getting in anyway, regardless of what anyone thinks. Yet 40% of police spending is taken up on drug related crime. That is a huge amount of money, frankly being wasted. History shows us that there is a connection between criminals and desired illegal substances (prohibition in the US), but once the substance is no longer illegal the criminal connection fades as the ability to make money has been removed. The very fact that there is such a large amount of drugs being brought into the country so regularly indicates that these drugs are being taken, regardless of them being legal or illegal. So are we only fooling ourselves, and wasting vast amounts of money, in thinking we are making ireland drug free? And more importantly, that we are speaking for the people of ireland when we put so much effort in removing drugs from ireland? All you have to do is read this thread to see that there are as many, if not more drug users (at some time) in the country. It is also clear to see that these people are level-headed, normal members of society, in fact, the most disturbing post on this thread came from a guy who is pretty much tee-total, when he stated he looked down on, and pretty much wrote off anyone who ever took these substances.

What i am saying is if the drugs are getting in and getting taken anyway, why do we continue wasting resources on the notion that we are making a difference? Is it purely to keep up the appearance that we are anti-drugs? (even though a higher percentage of the population clearly are not). Surely these resources would be better spent on removing the criminal side to drugs, as was done with alcohol and tobacco, and placing a tax on the substances to help the country. And before anyone responds with some long-winded rant from an ivy tower, just remember, the drugs are getting in anyway, they are also being taken anyway. Removing the criminality from drugs would actually save lives by removing dangerous mixing agents, as well as the gun crime that accompanies it at present, so when you think about it, wouldnt legalising and regulating them actually save lives? And is our appearance of being anti drugs really worth all those lives we could save?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 14/02/2010 20:41:56    561197

Surprised at the amount of people who have admitted to doing/ have taken drugs, bit of an eye opener.


Yea me too .. very surprised

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13654 - 15/02/2010 10:24:08    561403

The Master,

Where did you get that 2% figure from as i believe the official figure is 10% !! I don't know how anyone can come up with percentages anyway as it is impossible to know what the exact amount of illegal drugs coming into the country is. The figures can only be assumed. A drugs officer in Dublin airport once told me that the only way they can know is by the price on the streets. If a drug is scarce the price goes up, if plentiful it stays the same.

I am starting to believe that legalisation is the only way to control the problem and agree with most of your other points. Though i think that judges should give the big dealers the mandatory sentences as required by legislation !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 15/02/2010 10:59:14    561429

good point master but if you make it legal then more people may try it and in 20 years the health system will be crippled dealing with the problems. as well as this we'l be banning it like cigarettes! your figures do seem like they're pulled from the sky because if someone was counting what came in id expect they'd be stopping it. legal substances arent any better controlled GBH and ketamine are available and still do serious harm, if you risk making things legal where do you stop? do you limit ingredients to only harmless things? can i cut my coke with caster suger?

speedy12 (Fermanagh) - Posts: 592 - 15/02/2010 11:38:15    561478