32_4_1
County: Meath
Posts: 1810

549771

Not lucky just 2 great teams ....

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 03/02/2010 17:46:29    550722

bayern played united off the park, and terry slipped at the most important time in the game i.e luck

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4202 - 03/02/2010 17:54:42    550738

As Patrique rightly points out United were a slip and the width of a post away from losing in 2008. Scoring that penalty wouldn't have made Chelsea a great team. Nor would holding out for an extra couple of minutes have made Bayern Munich a great team in 1999. In fact given the team's he's had and the money he has had to spend some would say Alex Ferguson has under-achieved in Europe. Two European Cups isn't a great return in how many years, and it could easily have been none

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 03/02/2010 17:57:43    550745

bayern played united off the park, and terry slipped at the most important time in the game i.e luck

Don't see how you class either win as lucky. United were the best team over the 98-99 Champions' League, going undefeated through the competition. Bayern were the better team in the final, but they stopped playing after 88 minutes. United didn't have to rely on deflections for their goals, they earned them by continuing to play and try for a score until the final whistle.

United had a slice of luck with Terry missing his penalty in the shoot-out, but then Chelsea's equaliser in that game was highly fortuitous, a fact overlooked by revisionists like yourself

black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 03/02/2010 18:01:48    550756

32_4_1
County: Meath
Posts: 1812

550738 bayern played united off the park, and terry slipped at the most important time in the game i.e luck


United should have destroyed chelsea as it should not have went to penaltys and we beat bayern 2-1 with class and the whole way through that year united where brilliant hardly luck.

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 03/02/2010 18:02:30    550757

Unlucky side: Valencia?

JuanVeron (Westmeath) - Posts: 1866 - 03/02/2010 18:19:22    550779

arsenals invincibles are without doubt the best british team since the liverpool team of the early 80s.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4666 - 03/02/2010 18:29:27    550793

Did you know that Phil The Power Taylor says that he's just lucky to...........

Funny that isn't it????????

Mancirish (UK) - Posts: 2200 - 03/02/2010 18:30:59    550799

Liverpool, Ac Milan and Real Madrid, the kingpins of european football, the rest are playing catch up.

PJ (None) - Posts: 2288 - 03/02/2010 18:49:52    550828

why pj. liverpool have 1 extra european cup over ajax and munich. historically the 5 kingpins are - madrid, milan, liverpool, munich and ajax and they all have the uefa badgo of honour

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4202 - 03/02/2010 20:24:24    550965

i meant badge.

and ye veron, valencia were extremely unlucky

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4202 - 03/02/2010 20:25:40    550968

arsenals invincibles are without doubt the best british team since the liverpool team of the early 80s.

Arsenal went unbeaten in the whole 2003-2004 season in the Premiership. Arsenal were unbeaten away from home in the 2001-2002 premiership season, losing 3 games, all at home.

To put Arsenal's 2003-2004 season in context though, they lost 6 cup ties in that season: 1 FA Cup, 1 League Cup & 4 in the Champions League. In the 98-99 season, Manchester United lost just 4 competetive games all season (1 League Cup & 3 Premiership). Arsenal's 03/04 season yielded 1 trophy, United's yielded 3. Which is better? I think both were pretty special achievements & are rightly celebrated by the respective clubs.

But then you think of Celtic in 1966-67 who won every competition their first team entered (maybe more, youths etc?). Phenomenal - and before anyone thinks it I'm NOT a Celtic fan, I just think what Stein's team achieved was superb.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6548 - 04/02/2010 08:37:17    551116

The best European (& British) team ever was the Nottingham Forest team who won the European Cup 2 yr's in a row,and winning everything else around them at the same time (bar of course the FA Cup) under the leadership of ol' big head himself Brian Clough.

Duffy89 (Wexford) - Posts: 3320 - 04/02/2010 13:04:25    551456

Duffy89,

good point but I think it is a pointless (but a fun) debate. Many of the sides who have won have had huge amounts of cash, or had little cash and lots of hard workers. There is always a reason the sides who win, do win. What marks Clough's Forest out for me is they won the English second tier, came up & won the top flight and then won back to back European Cups. That is a pretty meteoric rise for any football side.

Is it better than any other European Cup winners achievements? That's a matter of opinion & I don't really care. I enjoy the achievements my team have achieved but it doesn't stop me from recognising or applauding the achievements of other clubs.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6548 - 04/02/2010 13:36:12    551491

'Is it better than any other European Cup winners achievements'

Celtic winning with all players born within a short distance of the stadium was an incredible achievement that will never be repeated. Ajax's win in '95 with virtually a fully Dutch team and only two players over 25, not to mention playing arguably the best football ever seen in Europe, has got to be up there as well. These two clubs like Nottingham Forest had little money and personally makes it a better achievement than a team buying 4 or 5 European Cups

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 04/02/2010 14:09:35    551531

Some people on this site seem to constantly want to show off their superior knowledge on all things football. Lets not be stupid the United team of '99 was a great team. Now i'm not saying they are the greatest by any means but give them some credit. They won the league on the last day of the season. The following Saturday they beat Newcastle in the FA Cup final, having beaten Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal to get there. And on the following Wednesday they won the European Cup.

Bayern should have won that game but they didn't. In '08 United had a better of the first half, scored a great goal. Remember Chelsea's goal was quite fortunate, deflecting off Ferdinand and landing straight at Lampard. Chelsea came good the second half and I reckon United had better of ET. I think they fully deserved it that year. Vidic and Tevez were immense in that game. I remember Anelka blaming Avram Grant for missing his penalty. lol what an idiot.

Adler (Monaghan) - Posts: 754 - 04/02/2010 14:19:18    551550

03/02/2010 18:01:48
black&white
County: Sligo
Posts: 690

550756
bayern played united off the park, and terry slipped at the most important time in the game i.e luck

Don't see how you class either win as lucky. United were the best team over the 98-99 Champions' League,


Hard to argue with this because United won the tournament and also WON the best LOSER'S section, all in the one tournament.

In those days the quarters were made up like the current Heinekin Rugby Cup, six group winners and the two best losers.

Bayern Munich ran out easy winners of United's group, but United won the best losers section.

Often asked as a trick sports question at quizzes, "Who were the best loser's and winners of the same tournament". The answer being United.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 04/02/2010 14:26:58    551562

Tralee Dynamos,

09KY36 (Kerry) - Posts: 329 - 04/02/2010 15:14:39    551646

Good afternoon, it was getting a bit lonely down here in this bunker so I came up for a bit of fresh air. Any interesting topics/threads yesterday while I was away? Back to the point Man Utd have been very very unconvincing in the Champions League and I have always said if Ferguson was a manager on the continent he would have been sacked a long time ago. Utd stole it against a brilliant Bayern team in 1999 who should have been 4 or 5 up by half time, it was daylight robbery. Likewise Chelsea dominated Utd for 70 mins in the their final and only a shocking penalty miss by Terry denied Chelsea a fully deserved win. Milan and Barcelona have given Utd a whipping and total football lesson when they met. I would agree that Liverpool's record in Europe stands alone for an English team, Utd are not even on that register.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9837 - 04/02/2010 15:17:30    551652

oops, sorry United were NOT the BEST runners up that year.

Ranking of runners-up
Team Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts
Spain Real Madrid 6 4 0 2 17 8 +9 12
England Manchester United 6 2 4 0 20 11 +9 10


Sorry about that. So we had the 6 group winners, and then 2 best losers, United being the 2nd best loser.

But still by far and away the best team in Europe that year. Don't let facts and stats deter us,

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 04/02/2010 15:34:32    551686