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To those who disagree that it would be easier to score from 11m, answer me this Dr.Shephard (Leitrim) - Posts: 2187 - 20/01/2010 15:22:30 538108 Link 0 |
To those who disagree that it would be easier to save a penalty from 11m than 13m, answer me this squidword (Louth) - Posts: 2897 - 20/01/2010 15:40:18 538128 Link 0 |
I am genuinely shocked that so many people are having trouble accepting and understanding that it is easier to score a penalty from closer to the goals than it is from further away. This was why I started this thread here on the GAA forum, after reading some of the bizarre suggestions on the thread on the non-GAA forum. Of course it is easier to score a penalty from 11m: (a) The distance from the penalty spot to the goal is less from 11m, giving the goalkeeper far less reaction time. (b) The distance from the penalty spot to each post is less from 11m (12.78m vs. 14.53m) (c) The goal area appears much bigger to the kicker, as he is closer (see Father Ted, Season 2 - Episode 1 "Hell", where Ted explains the concept of "near" and "far away" to Dougal). ___________________ \ / \ / \ / \ / 11m \ / \ / \ / \ / \/ o _____________ \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / 13m \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \/ o I have attempted to draw the angles of the penalties from the kicker's perspective above, but I'm not sure how they'll turn out when (if) this post is published. It's really basic stuff though, anyone who had even a vague understanding on first year maths should get it. Here is a quick comparison between penalties in soccer and GAA - Soccer goals: 7.32m x 2.44m GAA goals: 6.5m x 2.5m Penalty spot is almost exactly the same at 12yards/10.97m (soccer) and 11m (GAA). So, a penalty taker in soccer has a slightly better angle and bigger target than GAA (although the crossbar is slightly lower in soccer), with an extra 41cm to aim for either side of the 'keeper. I don't know the percentage, but far more than 40-45% of soccer penalties are scored. I would also argue that a GAA ball is easier to control and place than the soccer equilavent, which is lighter - but this is a minor point. The percentage of penalties scored in GAA will rise dramatically now that the penalty spot has been moved two metres closer to goal, of that I have no doubt whatsoever. nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 20/01/2010 17:53:29 538334 Link 0 |
Okay, my diagrams didn't work. But anyone who is still struggling with the concept, just get a piece of paper and draw a horizontal line 6.5cm long (the goalline). Measure 11cm and 13cm from the centre of this line to a point (the penalty spots). Now draw lines from the penalty spots to the ends of the goalline. If you have any sort of spatial awareness at all you will see that it should be easier to score from the point nearer to the goal where the angle is wider and the goalkeeper has less reaction time. nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 20/01/2010 20:26:21 538518 Link 0 |
Well done Nocky for explaining it so well. I still cannot get over the fact that there are people who do not think (know) that it will be easier to score from 11m. It is painfully obvious. Dr.Shephard (Leitrim) - Posts: 2187 - 21/01/2010 11:02:28 538697 Link 0 |
Also with a penalty taken from a shorter distance the goalkeeper has less time to react which makes it much harder to save and the angle favours the taker more than from further out !! Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 21/01/2010 11:20:50 538711 Link 0 |
Are GAA crossbars really higher than soccer? I always thought the opposite! sam57 (Louth) - Posts: 1502 - 21/01/2010 12:57:44 538842 Link 0 |
I always thought the same sam57, until I googled it for this thread, but the regulations state that GAA crossbars should be 6cm higher than soccer crossbars. I think the specification for crossbar thickness might be slightly different, but the heights are 2.5m (GAA) vs. 2.44m (soccer). You learn something new every day I suppose. nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 21/01/2010 13:21:37 538876 Link 0 |
I genuinely don't get what the big deal is...A player playing at the highest level of the game should have the ability to kick the ball into the back of the net from 13m out. El.Nino.1 (Tyrone) - Posts: 2 - 21/01/2010 13:31:39 538888 Link 0 |
Cavan_Slasher County: Cavan Posts: 3786 538711 Also with a penalty taken from a shorter distance the goalkeeper has less time to react which makes it much harder to save and the angle favours the taker more than from further out !! The reaction time is the crux of the the issue. If you're good enough to be the penalty taker, you should be hitting the target. As for the angle, from 13m a player needs to be within 14.04 degrees of the centre line to hit the target, whilst from 11m the player needs to be within 16.46 degrees of the centre line to hit the target. Assume the keeper is 1m wide (very fat keeper!), the angle needed to score (assuming the keeper doesn't move) from 11m is 2.6 degrees, whilst the angle needed from 13m is 2.2 degrees. Thus, from 11m you have an area of 13.86 degrees (either side) to hit where the keeper has to move to make a save. From 13m you have an area of 11.84 degrees (again, either side) to aim at. Plus, from 11m the keeper has less time to react. So, there you have it. Mathematically PROVED that it is easier to score from 11m than from 13m. black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 21/01/2010 14:06:16 538929 Link 0 |
nocky BartleDoo (Monaghan) - Posts: 389 - 21/01/2010 14:59:00 538963 Link 0 |
El.Nino.1 Dr.Shephard (Leitrim) - Posts: 2187 - 21/01/2010 15:09:58 538978 Link 0 |
Bartledoo There is a point when getting closer will make things harder, but I can mathematically prove that it is still easier to score from 11m than 13m. black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 21/01/2010 15:13:29 538984 Link 0 |
I'll make one assumption, that the keeper is 1m wide (which would be a pretty fat keeper), with an additional 0.5m reach either side from standing.. The wider From a distance of 13 metres, you have an angle of 14.04 degrees either side of centre within which a shot will be between the posts. From that same distance, a shot must be at least 4.4 degrees away from centre to avoid hitting a stationary goalkeeper. That gives you a total angle of 9.64 degrees to either side which you must hit for the ball not to be saved by a goalkeeper who doesn't dive. From a distance of 11 metres, you have an angle of 16.46 degrees either side of centre within which a shot will be between the posts. From that same distance, a shot must be at least 5.19 degrees away from centre to avoid hitting a stationary goalkeeper. That gives you a total angle of 11.27 degrees to either side which you must hit for the ball not to be saved by a goalkeeper who doesn't dive. So from 11 metres you have an extra 1.61 degrees to aim for to either side of the keeper. Once you hit this space, from 11m the keeper has less time to react than if you hit it from 13m, adding to the advantage from 11m. black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 21/01/2010 15:23:00 538997 Link 0 |
At the highest standard of penalty taking would there not be a, perhaps miniscule, slight advantage to being further out? ie if you were curling it (inswinger) into the top corner or in off the post, the greater distance allowing a wider arc? Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12311 - 21/01/2010 15:46:21 539024 Link 0 |
BartleDoo, I think black&white has explained it better than I ever could. If you're still unable to understand I suggest you go down to your nearest pitch and take a few penalties from different distances, say 11, 13 and 15m. Come back to me and tell us which distance you found it easiest to score from. nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 21/01/2010 15:54:24 539035 Link 0 |
Breffni39 Dr.Shephard (Leitrim) - Posts: 2187 - 21/01/2010 15:57:08 539037 Link 0 |
Breff black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 21/01/2010 15:58:32 539040 Link 0 |
Dr.Shephard Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12311 - 21/01/2010 16:41:11 539102 Link 0 |
nocky BartleDoo (Monaghan) - Posts: 389 - 21/01/2010 17:37:10 539198 Link 0 |