Smerwick, it's very harsh to say that people who were arguing for Joyce were idiots. I have been a follower of Gaelic Games for a very long time. I have seen an awful lot of both of them. I would feel that overall Maurice Fitzgerald was a better player. I would have had no qualms about him playing in midfield. I don't feel that Joyce could have played at midfield at the highest level. That said however people have posted on this thread that on his day Maurice Fitzgerald was unmarkable. They are right. But so too was Joyce. Ask the defenders of Derry, Kildare, Cork, Meath, Armagh all of whom he took apart in championship football. Both players gave several stunning displays in Croke Park and both at their best were without doubt the best forwards in the country. Many people rightly talk about Maurice Fitzgeralds display in the 1997 final . In my opinion Joyces display in the 2,001 final was better. As I said I feel that overall Maurice Fitzgerald was the better player and I would pick him head of Paraic Joyce. However I don't believe having seen them almost everytime they performed in Croke Park that the gap between them is anywhere near as wide as you feel. Certainly those who argue for Joyce should not be chided as being "idiots".

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6192 - 19/01/2010 17:26:41    537346

Greengrass get over yourself mate don't be so naive. It's just banter. Anyway I'd say by the count of 17-9 so far that it ain't as close as you imply.

SmerwickMan (Kerry) - Posts: 20 - 19/01/2010 17:38:03    537359

For consistency and creativity it has to be Joyce.

tommy k (Galway) - Posts: 3470 - 19/01/2010 17:50:29    537378

Ah come on, in all fairness. Maurice Fitz is one of the all time greats. Joyce was a good player but not in the same league as Maurice Fitz.

JPM1981 (Kildare) - Posts: 825 - 19/01/2010 17:52:05    537382

Smerwick there's nothing to get over and nothing naive about it. You asked for an opinion and you got one, honestly expressed. Nothing I can do if you don't like it. Two of the best footballers I have ever seen and I have been going to Croke Park since the early seventies. Matt Connor by the way was better than both of them. Apologies if you're offended but a piece of friendly advice for a lad with ten posts in total - if you post on this site you need a thick skin .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6192 - 19/01/2010 18:06:59    537415

There can never be a conclusive argument in cases like these.Some things are best left unanswered two great players, one that the definitive answer will be given at 3am falling off a barstool.

Stuckinthepast (Galway) - Posts: 472 - 19/01/2010 18:19:00    537434

Ferguson 35X and it served him for years and did the job that the horse couldn't do but it was no Massey Ferguson 5400 series. That's how I view the Joyce V Fitzy thing. Joyce is the very reliable 35x but he's no 5400 series.

This analogy is unsuitable. It would be more genuine if the 5400 had a history of disappearing when there was work to be done

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 19/01/2010 18:53:41    537479

Greengrass was actually very fair in his analysis. Smerwick I think you might have to work on your communication and debating skills if you think people that don't agree with you are idiots. Otherwise you'll have a very frustrating life.

Marooned (Galway) - Posts: 2408 - 19/01/2010 19:07:02    537493

I see that most are going for Marice Fitz and to tell you the truth with the anti-Kerry bias it's amazing to me that he is so far ahead in the first place. Of course we know Marice was way ahead of Joyce but none of them could make the impact Sheamus Darby made in a game. He had the whole country (cept kerry) on his side and his goal was the single best moment in any game. Full stop.

RememberDarby (Offaly) - Posts: 6 - 19/01/2010 19:26:19    537508

Greengrass thanks for the lecture there again. Your response was appreciated it really was but I was referring to you advising me not to call them idiots twice and nothing to do with your view on Fitzy V Joyce. That's why I called you naive. If your two here on this question are anything to go by I'd say you do a awful lot of patronizing of folks. Any oh my you've been following football since the early 70's, then ok maybe we should all bow down and just hang onto your every word. Give us some more great insight will you lad. I think it's you that needs to get thick skin.

SmerwickMan (Kerry) - Posts: 20 - 19/01/2010 20:01:55    537538

The answer is Maurice, for pure footballing skills. Padraig is very good but Maurice was/is an artisan.

lostintime (USA) - Posts: 533 - 19/01/2010 20:26:19    537549

Maurice

lostintime (USA) - Posts: 533 - 19/01/2010 20:55:55    537567

TheMaster you are a funny man, and being from Mayo you'd know all about going missing when there was work to be done. Last few trips to Dublin proved that. Marooned thanks for the advice on how to debate correctly and also for helping out your mate greengrass there. I will tie one hand behind my back next time I venture among geniuses.

SmerwickMan (Kerry) - Posts: 20 - 19/01/2010 20:58:52    537569

There's not much to choose between them but I think Ja was better than both.

aine007 (Galway) - Posts: 55 - 19/01/2010 21:42:16    537612

Smerwickman you were right about tractors 35x is still going 5400 series is parked in hayshed, I WILL take a tractor that stays going for ever, Joyce is the better player,i agree with those idots you were talking to if joyce was from kerry you would say he was the best player ever,I am looking forward to watching joyce play again this year,Like you said those 35x keep going for ever. i

aggardman (Galway) - Posts: 2 - 19/01/2010 21:50:29    537620

Aggardman thanks for confirming that he was a 35x in comparison to Fitzy, at least you are honest about that. Longevity has nothing to do with greatness. Maybe he doesn't have the competition for his place in Galway all these years. To say that he'd be considered the greatest ever Kerry player if he played for us though is kind of tearing the you know what out of it. I don't think he'd have lasted all those years in Kerry with the competition for places we have constantly. I don't think he'd last in a bunch of other counties to tell you the truth, if he'd move to Mayo I'm sure he could double his longevity. Not taking away from him just giving you some reality which after hearing about him being the best ever for Kerry I think you need it.

SmerwickMan (Kerry) - Posts: 20 - 20/01/2010 11:25:10    537790

As a young lad, I hear Fitz mentioned with reverence throughout Ireland whereas Joyce is "merely" considered a talented forward who Galwegians hapen to like!

A_Border_Bandit (Monaghan) - Posts: 95 - 20/01/2010 12:19:32    537851

As a young lad, I hear Fitz mentioned with reverence throughout Ireland whereas Joyce is "merely" considered a talented forward who Galwegians hapen to like!

Guys like Dessie Dolan, Tommy Freeman, Conor Mortimer or Conal Keaney are "merely" talented forwards. Joyce was a level considerably above that.

Marooned (Galway) - Posts: 2408 - 20/01/2010 12:34:44    537878

Joyce was and still is a legend!

tommy k (Galway) - Posts: 3470 - 20/01/2010 13:32:56    537962

so smerwick man if its not about longevity and consistency, what is it about. because your going in a very roundabout way in explaining yourself since everyone seems to be taking you up wrong. from what i can gather your not really comparing them for what they did for club and county and how consistent they are, more how good they are on raw individual talent. i think anybody would agree fitzgerald is better in this aspect

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4201 - 20/01/2010 14:14:32    538017