15/01/2010 17:55:16
dhorse
County: Laois
Posts: 4622

would agree with squid on this, think 2 metre closer would definitly narrow the angle a lot for the Keper, especially as the movement rule is not enforced
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Yes, you're probably right dhorse. Perhaps we should move the penalty spot back to the 20m line, or even the '65 altogether. This would "widen the angle"!

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 15/01/2010 18:18:55    534209

dhorse
County: Laois
Posts: 4622

534168 nocky
County: Wexford
Posts: 1097

533930 15/01/2010 13:35:21
squidword
County: Louth
Posts: 1493

533803
Jinxie,

I'd still prefer the 6 and 3 format. With regard to the backs and tackling as long as they tackle within the rules then they should have no worries about tackling. I believe the adoption this would help to insure that a player coming in on goal was not fouled deliberately (takin out of it)so as to prevent them from scoring a goal (3 points). Furthermore I could see a concept such as this adding further spice to our game of football.

nocky

Bringing the ball forward 2 mts IMO favours the goal keeper. Particularly when you have someone 6'4" between the uprights who stands 2 mts of his goal line.

Squid
_________________


And please explain how bringing the ball closer to the goal favours the goalkeeper again? I also thought it was illegal for goalkeepers to come off their lines before the ball was kicked.

would agree with squid on this, think 2 metre closer would definitly narrow the angle a lot for the Keper, especially as the movement rule is not enforced

I disagree with Squid on this one. 2 metres closer may narrow the angle but it also gives you less reaction time as a keeper. We are now talking about 11 metres. I'm sure a good striker of the ball can kick it at least 60mph. This would give the keeper a reaction time of 0.4 seconds. The penalty taker has 16.5m(square) to hit and the fact is, if they are worth their salt they will score. If the ref implemented the rule already in place regards moving off the line then there would be even less need for ridiculous rule changes. Failing that, get the players to practice a bit harder. I don't recall ever seeing Stevie O'neill miss a penalty

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 15/01/2010 18:27:50    534231

nocky
County: Wexford

You still haven't explained how moving the ball closer to goal favours the goalkeeper

By bringing the ball closer to the goals you're actually increasing (making more difficult) the angle the ball has to be hit at to beat the goalkeeper. This includes every point along the goalmouth from the centre out to any point on the uprights. In short therefore, by moving the ball forward you are in fact making it more difficult for the kicker to beat the keeper wide of centre, the advantage therefore lies with the keeper in this regard.

Regarding how you would record the scoring I think I'll leave that one with you as I'm sure you'll work something out. You don't look to be doing to bad so far.

Squid

squidword (Louth) - Posts: 2897 - 15/01/2010 19:05:40    534273

Squid, by bringing the ball closer to the goal you are reducing the goalkeeper's reaction time as omaghredhand has already pointed out. I would suggest this more than offsets any increased "difficulty" in angling the ball. Since the goalkeeper has less reaction time you no longer have to kick the ball as hard toward the corner. If what you say is true, why do you not move the penalty spot back towards the 20m line?

Giving 6points for a penalty kick would ruin gaelic football. Imagine a team losing a game 0-11 to 1-6, 1-6 winning with the goal (from a penalty) worth 6points. If your rules are applied that is what will happen. Think man!

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 15/01/2010 19:50:41    534317

nocky
County: Wexford


would agree with squid on this, think 2 metre closer would definitly narrow the angle a lot for the Keper, especially as the movement rule is not enforced
_____________

Yes, you're probably right dhorse. Perhaps we should move the penalty spot back to the 20m line, or even the '65 altogether. This would "widen the angle"!

If you like, but why do you want to move it all

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 15/01/2010 19:54:44    534321

15/01/2010 13:35:21
squidword
County: Louth
Posts: 1521

"Bringing the ball forward 2 mts IMO favours the goal keeper"

Did you happen to catch the Wexford-Dublin game on TG4 squid, or see the highlights on the news? Still stand by the above statement?

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 18/01/2010 12:55:14    535853

Didn't see the Wexford-Dublin game yesterday nocky so cant comment on it as I was in Baltinglass to watch Wicklow play my own beloved county. I did however see Wicklow kick a penalty from 11mts out just wide of the post in that match. And yes I do still stand by my statement with regard the angles and the goalkeeper.

Squid

squidword (Louth) - Posts: 2897 - 18/01/2010 14:21:56    536002

No excuse for kicking a penalty wide from 11m, Dublin easily scored two penalties vs. us in Parnell Park, goalkeeper had absolutely no chance.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 18/01/2010 14:47:35    536041

I'd be concerned with your keeper in that case:)

Squid

squidword (Louth) - Posts: 2897 - 18/01/2010 14:59:57    536059

18/01/2010 14:59:57
squidword
County: Louth
Posts: 1526

536059
I'd be concerned with your keeper in that case:)

Squid
_____

You just said you didn't see the game, how can you suggest that the 'keeper should have saved the penalties? 90%+ of penalties should be scored from 11m.

Nocky.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 18/01/2010 15:08:03    536079

nocky
County: Wexford
Posts: 1126


90% Off penaltys should even be scored from 13mtrs not just 11 and not sure who in the thread said goals should be worth 6 points i hope that is a wind up or madness from that poster to suggest that as it would bury the game altogether.

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 18/01/2010 15:18:18    536104

typical dhorse, loses the arguement so starts getting sarcastic. it defies all logic that by moving the ball closer to the goals helps the goalie. so ye, going by the logic here a penalty from 80 metres out would be a certainty, while a peno from 2 metres out would be a guaranteed save. what a load of rubbsh

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4202 - 18/01/2010 15:54:59    536151

"90%+ of penalties should be scored from 11m"


nocky

I'd be very interested to know as I'm sure so would others the criteria you used to come to that conclusion?.

Most people know that the scoring percentage at 13m was just over 40% and that includes scoring a point from a penalty.

Squid

squidword (Louth) - Posts: 2897 - 18/01/2010 16:11:48    536180

Squid said:

By bringing the ball closer to the goals you're actually increasing (making more difficult) the angle the ball has to be hit at to beat the goalkeeper. This includes every point along the goalmouth from the centre out to any point on the uprights. In short therefore, by moving the ball forward you are in fact making it more difficult for the kicker to beat the keeper wide of centre, the advantage therefore lies with the keeper in this regard.


Example 1:
If you strike a ball from 11 metres that goes in off the post (for example) and strike the same shot from 13 metres at the same angle it will go wide.

Example 2:You strike a ball from 13 metres that goes in off the post and strike the same shot with the same angle from 11 metres it will be a lot closer to the keeper.

In example one the shot from 11 metres scores while the shot from 13 metres misses. In example 2 you score from 13 metres and still have a chance of scoring from 11 metres because the shot is closer.

This dosen't prove that its easier from 11 metres but it dose show that you can't say that the angle is more difficult to score from 11 metres as Squid has. Its far easier to hit the target the closer you are!!!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13844 - 18/01/2010 17:10:31    536272

Example 1:
If you strike a ball from 11 metres that goes in off the post (for example) and strike the same shot from 13 metres at the same angle it will go wide.

Example 2:You strike a ball from 13 metres that goes in off the post and strike the same shot with the same angle from 11 metres it will be a lot closer to the keeper.

In example one the shot from 11 metres scores while the shot from 13 metres misses. In example 2 you score from 13 metres and still have a chance of scoring from 11 metres because the shot is closer.

This dosen't prove that its easier from 11 metres but it dose show that you can't say that the angle is more difficult to score from 11 metres as Squid has. Its far easier to hit the target the closer you are!!!

_________________________


MesAmis

You have just proved my point, the ball that's struck from 13 metres that goes in off the post when the same shot is struck at the same angle from 11 metres it will be a lot closer to the keeper. Advantage keeper

Squid

squidword (Louth) - Posts: 2897 - 18/01/2010 17:51:34    536319

I agree with Squid

If you take it to its extreme
If you took the penalty from 1 foot out- off the ground - you would hit the keeper every time -

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 18/01/2010 18:10:46    536340

squidword
County: Louth
Posts: 1530

536319 Example 1:
If you strike a ball from 11 metres that goes in off the post (for example) and strike the same shot from 13 metres at the same angle it will go wide.

Example 2:You strike a ball from 13 metres that goes in off the post and strike the same shot with the same angle from 11 metres it will be a lot closer to the keeper.

In example one the shot from 11 metres scores while the shot from 13 metres misses. In example 2 you score from 13 metres and still have a chance of scoring from 11 metres because the shot is closer.

This dosen't prove that its easier from 11 metres but it dose show that you can't say that the angle is more difficult to score from 11 metres as Squid has. Its far easier to hit the target the closer you are!!!

_________________________


MesAmis

You have just proved my point, the ball that's struck from 13 metres that goes in off the post when the same shot is struck at the same angle from 11 metres it will be a lot closer to the keeper. Advantage keeper

Squid


_____________________________________-

Ignored the first part of my post there bud. Selective reading wha!

To get things clear I wasn't going against you just pointing out that the way you justified it with an earlier post was wrong.

Quick question: Would penalties from 16metres be easier?

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13844 - 18/01/2010 18:26:29    536355

I'm amazed nobody has pointed anyone in the direction of the GAA forum yet!

<<<------- its that way

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12494 - 18/01/2010 18:51:16    536388

Just seen the two Dublin penalties for the first time on the RTÈ news. I was right about the keeper he dived before the ball was hit making it very easy for the Dublin player to hit the ball to his other side. Watch him nocky he will cost Wexford mark my words :)

Two from three so far = 66.3% strike rate. Any other penalties awarded (GAA) over the weekend that we haven't heard about.

Squid

squidword (Louth) - Posts: 2897 - 18/01/2010 19:28:00    536428

Really don't know why I'm having to explain how it's easier to score from closer to the goal, trying to explain this concept to squid is like Fr. Ted trying to teach Dougal the concept of "near" and "far away".

Here is a quick comparison between penalties in soccer and GAA -
Soccer goals: 7.32m x 2.44m
GAA goals: 6.5m x 2.5m
Penalty spot is almost exactly the same at 12yards/10.97m (soccer) and 11m (GAA). So, a penalty taker in soccer has a slightly better angle and bigger target than GAA (although the crossbar is slightly lower in soccer), with an extra 41cm to aim for either side of the 'keeper. I don't know the percentage, but far more than 40% of soccer penalties are scored. I would also argue that a GAA ball is easier to control and place than the soccer equilavent, which is lighter - but this is a minor point.

I would be willing to bet that the percentage of penalties scored in GAA will rise dramatically now that the penalty spot has been moved two metres closer to goal.

P.S. Admins, this is a GAA topic, not a non-GAA one, can it be moved to the main forum or would that require the setting up of a new thread? The main forum has more traffic and this is a topic I would like debated there.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 18/01/2010 20:27:33    536491