Cavan_Slasher
County: Cavan
Posts: 3581

515921 (1) The 5% increase in the numbers travelling to shop in New York are not from the Public Sector !!

(2) The politicians took only a realistic 2% cut but raised their expense claims to 9 million, a rise of 2% !!

(3) As i suggested they are after the Semi- Private Sector now just before the predicted return to cut the Private Sector wages !!

(4) Funny enough, people won't mind too much as long as its not just them !! Thank God for the 3 day week !! Was offered a little nixer which i am contemplating !!

The ESB and Bord Gais are very succesful semi states who made 640 million and 130 million Euro profits respectively. Nothing to be sneezed at along with healthy tax returns and devidents. Its going to be very hard to get a pay cut there. Since the Government cant reduce the value of the currency by 10% there going after it through wages across the board. The Labour relations court because of these profits impose pay rises amongst the semi states, where in the case of RTE etc who make loses there is a genuine reason for paycuts. I'm not a Union man so i'd take a pay deduction in order of fairness, but the law is there

paddyogall (Mayo) - Posts: 5110 - 16/12/2009 21:02:14    515964

I am a public sector worker, and I would like to think that I do a good honest job. I feel really hurt at the ire directed towards me and my colleagues over the past few months from people across the private sector. These same people cannot see the divide and conquer policy being driven by the government and the Indo and are swallowing it hook, line and sinker, but then what would you expect, it was the same insightful people who probably re-elected Fianna Failure to power.
Well today I hit back and saved a few shillings in the process. I recently got a quote for a root canal and filling from my local dentist of €550 and I got the work done up in Camlough, just outside Newry for £150. Now irrespective of my current feelings, with a young family, falling income and that kind of a gap, f*** patriotism. There is nothing patriotic about keeping the Irish professional classes propped up while the rest of us are suffering. Then I got to thinking on the way home that my protest would be to spend as much of my diminishing income outside of Ireland eg up north and online, saving me money and giving the two fingers to all of those who have unnecessarily vilified my colleagues and I for the past year.

gaillimh73 (Galway) - Posts: 669 - 16/12/2009 22:20:02    516072

Gaillimh73/Cavan Slasher, I have no doubt that you do your jobs well, as many others in the public sector do. But can you honestly tell me when you look around your place of work that everyone there is working at full capacity, giving 100%? I know many people working in the public sector and their work ethic wouldn't allow them to mess about all week. However, they get pretty annoyed that there are a number of people there just for the paycheck and do as little as possible. Now I'm very aware of the services provided by the Gardai, fire brigade etc. and the need for them, no qualmns with them. But the civil service as a whole is completely inefficient and bleeding money. The government needs to cut expenditure (arising from their own incompetence). As they can't go and cut 10-20% of the workforce, they need to cut elsewhere. So everyone takes a small hit rather than many people taking a full hit. Now the government got us into this position, no doubt. Bertie constantly bowing to the Union's demands meant that the civil service has been running inefficiently for years. The only way I can really see things getting better is for the government to sell off some of it's substantial assets (selling the DAA, Cork and Shannon airports would raise billions, sell it's stake in Aer Lingus, CIE, An Post). This way these services will be cut from government spending as well as resulting in huge income inflows to help deal with the deficit. It might even make some of them run efficiently! I can't see them doing this any time soon though, so I'm afraid the pay cuts are going to have to come into effect as the country cannot continue to lose the money it's losing. There are people say in town planning etc, the property bubble has well and truely burst, yet they are still in jobs with sweet f.a. to do. If this kind of inefficiency was erradicated, it would go a long way to making the savings that are undoubtedly needed. Just my view though.

Bermuda_Bomber (Meath) - Posts: 101 - 17/12/2009 01:59:16    516229

paddyogall
County: Mayo
Posts: 2104

515964 Cavan_Slasher
County: Cavan
Posts: 3581

515921 (1) The 5% increase in the numbers travelling to shop in New York are not from the Public Sector !!

(2) The politicians took only a realistic 2% cut but raised their expense claims to 9 million, a rise of 2% !!

(3) As i suggested they are after the Semi- Private Sector now just before the predicted return to cut the Private Sector wages !!

(4) Funny enough, people won't mind too much as long as its not just them !! Thank God for the 3 day week !! Was offered a little nixer which i am contemplating !!

The ESB and Bord Gais are very succesful semi states who made 640 million and 130 million Euro profits respectively. Nothing to be sneezed at along with healthy tax returns and devidents. Its going to be very hard to get a pay cut there. Since the Government cant reduce the value of the currency by 10% there going after it through wages across the board. The Labour relations court because of these profits impose pay rises amongst the semi states, where in the case of RTE etc who make loses there is a genuine reason for paycuts. I'm not a Union man so i'd take a pay deduction in order of fairness, but the law is there

With regard to the ESB and Bord Gais o course they made a profit they don't have any competition there might be a few companies supplying power but the transmission system is still owned by the ESB and the regulator must keep the prices high to make it viable for those companies imagine that a regulator keeping the prices high.
These costs must be brought down if and when they are everyone benefits.
The same for private sector wages which IBEC as Slasher is pointing out are trying to reduce and wage costs are the reason why the cost of living is so high in the Republic if proof is needed just compare wage rates with our northern friends.

chainsaw (Laois) - Posts: 712 - 17/12/2009 12:51:02    516413

Chainsaw:
public sector wages are still higher than their equivalent in the private sector? I would be all for not cutting public sector wages if they cut in some other way they can't let people go and havn't had an overhaul of public service processes which would save money (and prove also an overstaffed public service) so wages have to be cut.
Did you hear about the girl working in the public sector (cie) that returned after a sabatical and didn't have a job for her so really gave her a dummy job paying 63,000 she sued them for 193,000 because of a meanless job.. Would that not be an another example of being over staffed.

As for electricity i think this is one area in which the government are doing things right. Deregulation in 2000 open market with northern and southern ireland (will be more beneficical for the north as it should bring down their prices said to be the higest in europe. Also introduction of the REFIT scheme to help with green energies which could mean a greater degree of self sufficency and also a super grind connection which will help connetition as airtricty (parent company SSE) should become a big player. I agree though that prices need to be brought down but hopefully this will happen as dependance on fossil fuel decreases. Having the grid management a separate entity is a good idea Eirgrid should be totally separate and not part of the esb.

The reason their so profitable is partly due to prices but also due to an overhaul effectively running it more like a private sector company. Any bit of competition has this effect.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 17/12/2009 14:03:49    516484

Hag & Cheese, wages are still higher in the Public Sector !! Oh no there not, not now !! Who told you that ?

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 17/12/2009 18:46:43    516703

Bermuda Bomber, As i have said all along the people who we need to get rid of are in middle management. It is top-heavy with them and many of them are not needed. That is where i would start. If you submit a report in the H.S.E. it would be read by about ten of these people and each would contribute their own wee bit as they feel they have to have an opinion on the matter. When you would eventually get it back it would be totally confusing and bear no relevance to the original thus creating frustration and confusion to the people who actually work at the coalface !! All little Hitlers trying to outdo one another and the ordinary workers suffer as do the public !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 17/12/2009 19:02:17    516716

16/12/2009 21:02:14
paddyogall
County: Mayo
Posts: 2105

The ESB and Bord Gais are very succesful semi states who made 640 million and 130 million Euro profits respectively. Nothing to be sneezed at along with healthy tax returns and devidents. Its going to be very hard to get a pay cut there.

_______________
900 employees in Bord Gais cost over €70m per annum. Thats an average of €80k each. The board includes govt appointees from the trade union movement.
put it this way I'm sure o Leary or similar would find scope for adjustment. Although given the boards influence in Legal circles it would be a challenge. I wont even mention ESB - though presume they have stopped paying for the lads in Rhode at this stage. Knew a lad who used to fly from Dublin to cork when he worked with ESB but did'nt claim for it as the mileage and travel time worked out better.

Now Coillte - there is a job CEO on €400k plus - but then again he's able to make trees grow in quarter the time. As for VHI €1.5 bn per annum to make sure that the south dublin barrister brigade are able to have their hips serviced in the blackrock clinic - €150m of that is internal overheads to manage a call centre where the only five answers are A,B,C,D or E.

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 17/12/2009 19:49:10    516796

They are higher per equivalent job see the benchmarking report and the was 2007 so they are higher now seen there has been a 20% drop in pay in the private sector and that dosen't include the 200,000 odd 100% pay cuts. Most of the wealth in the private sector is in the top management i.e exec's so how can you compare wages across the board then!!!! you seem to neglect to mention that.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 17/12/2009 22:20:02    517003

"As i have said all along the people who we need to get rid of are in middle management" so you agree there should be cuts then?? Their can't be jobs cuts so pay cuts need to be made!! It's a simple fact pay cuts or job cuts and there's going to be protest either way. All protest but no solutions offered.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 17/12/2009 22:25:57    517023

Hag & Cheese, 7.5 % pension levy, 2 % health levy, 5 % pay cut, 6 % pay rise which was reneged on and 1 % some other levy i can't remember !! If everyone else can count their "denied" pay rise so can I !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 17/12/2009 22:43:38    517058

Hag & Cheese, the solution was higher taxes as then everyone pays and nobody can complain !! The very rich are still exempt !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 17/12/2009 22:46:27    517071

most taxes are on a par most developed economies the low tax bracket public sector pay isn't add to this low corporate tax so that massively effects tax takes, right when everyone is working there's a trade off on the corporate tax losses but 400000 unemployed means they can't afford such an expensive public service. Again the private sector has taking paycuts and massive job losses but the public sector do not want this at all you can't have your cake and eat it The the majority of the private sector has taken the double hit you complaining about. Scandanavians have higher tax rates but they actually have effective public service worth the money again not a personal attack you generalise so i'll do a bit too.

You haven't really backed up or put forward a valid case why there shouldn't be pay cuts and this is 8 pages worth now.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 17/12/2009 23:47:48    517199

7.5 % pension levy, 2 % health levy (pension and health benefits that most people don't get), 6 % pay rise (pay freeze if not cuts implemented in the vast majority of private sector june 2008). If the public sector took the risks job wise as the private sector then i wouldn't agree with the pay cuts (as basically there would have been a cull of numbers). Job for life state pension. Example of this is contract work pays more as they don't have any benefits and no security. You seem to be highlighting the top earners by 5-10% of the private sector at least my argurment deals with the whole public sector.

What about the private sectors pensions funds which have nose dived in investments.....

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 17/12/2009 23:59:36    517215

Hag & Cheese, their pensions were "gambled" for greedy purposes by bankers and investors now you cannot blame the Public Sector for that !! Our cuts are exactly in line or even worse than in the Private Sector i believe. I know my wages are down about 21 % on what i would have expected to earn in 2010. Many have retired or have left the Public Sector so it will diminish with time. Did you expect the to leave in sympathy with people who have lost their jobs, thats not the way life works. People joined the Public Sector for security, people joined the Private Sector to become rich !! Many of them did !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 18/12/2009 15:15:02    517681

18/12/2009 15:15:02
Cavan_Slasher
County: Cavan
Posts: 3608

517681 Hag & Cheese, their pensions were "gambled" for greedy purposes by bankers and investors.
________________________
global stock markets fell by up to 60% -80% of pension monies funds where there is a high % of pensioners - are invested in equities.
This has been the recomended norm for decades - Not sure that gambling comes into it.

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 18/12/2009 15:27:57    517711

Public sector are useless, about time they got cuts, more needs to be done about their pensions though, more cuts needed.

Cranky360 (Mayo) - Posts: 834 - 18/12/2009 15:56:49    517747

Good man Cranky, you are so intelligent !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 18/12/2009 18:05:17    517881