That's not cutting jobs that waiting till they retire because they can't cut numbers..... look right ireland has got companies to come here because because of low corporate tax. Granted there's tax from this growing population but were loosing out on 50 billion tax (i heard quoated) from corporation tax yet countries with higher corporate tax and similar low unemployment rates (before the boom time ended) pay their public servants a lot less and have less per head of population.... and i'm not talking the likes of uk and u.s (billions spent on war), public servant wages do not make sense then. Add to this the youngest population in europe leading to higher class sizes but these this young population consumes tax money too. Simple fact is why have a public service that you can afford.

I think the sector of the public service that's hard done by is eduaction needs the resources i don't mean wage wise, to get us out of this eduaction is key but I can admit i maybe a bit biased here being a student.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 12/12/2009 23:20:04    512192

Also how many billions have been spent on training private sector workers who too have emmigrate.... I fell for these people who trained to work in the public sector but how does pushing these into an already over staffed public service solve anything....

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 12/12/2009 23:31:55    512198

Hag & Cheese, there will be less nurses required because there will be fewer hospitals but the population is also on the increase so there will be more people ill. I don't know how they work out the numbers they need to have but there were obviously too many nurses in training. It seems to be the same in teaching with a surplus of trained teachers and no positions despite the rise in population and because of financial restraints there is no new schools. Bigger class sizes also mean less teachers and may lead to drop in the standard of education. The budget lacked a good jobs stimulus package anyway. All doom and gloom !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 12/12/2009 23:56:07    512208

What kind of annoys me about all of this, is that nobody seems to see what the unions have only recently begun to point out - this is a race to the bottom which will lower wages right across the economy. If it's not that - then why did the government break off negotiations on a short time scheme which could have delivered the necessary savings? And their claim that these savings wouldn't have been permenant is only partially true. Nobody who is put on short time goes back on full time until the employer decides they can afford it. Therefore if the unions had struck a deal on short time, their acceptance of that deal was the necessary precedent for the deal to remain in place. Short time was the solution, but the government decided they needed to drive wages down in both sectors.

Now they might be right. Perhaps wages do have to come down. But nobody should be under the illusion that this dispute is about anything other than the wage rate. The public sector pay bill has nothing to do with it anymore, and probably never had. The same captains of industry that broke the country, have no convinced the government that they will save it, if wages are lowered. Meanwhile, whilst these greedy scam artists plan to take even more money out of all of our pockets, we're supposed to attack the public sector and believe that they are overpaid! Well the employers organisations don't fool me. The public sector is not overpaid, it is the private sector that is underpaid.

Wages may have to come down. Perhaps the little guy has to lick his masters boots for a bowel of rice. Perhaps that is the global economy that all of us have to accept. It might be realism, but I find it hard to take. I hope the public sector do stand up to it. Perhaps they could do things that don't inconvenience the rest of us, but expose the government as the idiots they are. The civil service should refuse to provide any breifing or answer any questions for any government TD. The revenue should refuse to chase up any small time tax defaulters. Gards should refuse to issue speeding fines except in extreme cases, allow motorists to proceed without tax or NCT. Parking wardens should refuse to issue tickets. There are lots of little ways for public servants to get at the government without isolating themselves from public support.

Culchie (Cork) - Posts: 799 - 13/12/2009 04:34:51    512275

re: culchie

That's capatalism for you we went from probably one of the lowest paid workforces in the work to one of the highest in the space of 10 years dose that seem right, we've not lost our competitive advantage the only reason companies are staying here is mainly the tax brakes fact that we speak english and are skilled. We complain about companies leaving for cheaper economies but that's what they did in the first place to come here it's the nature of the beast. you cost us too much we leave!!! You can complain about it all you want. I've first hand expireance of this in the 90's i worked for an american company that relocated because of cost 4 years later the relocated again to india because of cost. More and more work is being outsourced to economies like india and china.

The private sector on average is over-paid, the public is overpaid compared to the private sector and other economies, but one of the big problems is the cost of living her is too high caused by greed in the boom times. Wages come down cost if living comes down, cost of living is down by about 10-12 percent shouldn't wages do the same. But again we have a public service that's too big and we can't afford.

also slasher: when irelands population has started to drop due to non-national workers and emmigration due u agree there should be cuts??

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 13/12/2009 13:41:27    512371

Slash you and the rest of the public sector took to the streets to defend your own wallet! End the martyrdom - IT'S FALSE AND EMBARASSING!!!

Do you reckon you'll get the beer cheaper in Newry on your next 'protest' day??!!

Real Louth fan (Louth) - Posts: 3157 - 13/12/2009 14:05:52    512383

Well R.L.F. the only embarrassing thing is how people like you throw insults but cannot stand up for yourself at all.

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 13/12/2009 15:13:52    512457

Hag & Cheese maybe if there is real drop in the cost of living because i don't see it too much now. I read the figures but the drop seems to be in non-essentials !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 13/12/2009 15:19:23    512462

Have you kept track of the cost of food, clothing etc. since the crisis started, the reason your not feeling the effects is that taxes have risen and wages have dropped as you outlined yourself dropping to a 3 day week? Also interest rates are about 5 times lower than what they were so don't give me that. The cost of living and wages are tied together. Look it's the banks and the government that caused this we need the banks as much as i am outraged at what they did hopefully it'll make sure their kept in check now. Government also wrong for propping up an economy on construction short term measure.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 13/12/2009 16:14:36    512521

Word of thanks slasher.

You were a great study aid benchmarking came up in the exam!

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 16/12/2009 12:27:14    515334

Look at the way the media is picking on us poor miss-fortunates in the commercial semi state sector. Have they no shame?

paddyogall (Mayo) - Posts: 5110 - 16/12/2009 13:52:25    515403

Hag & Cheese, thats very funny !! Hope you flew through the exam and Happy Christmas lad !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 16/12/2009 14:06:29    515419

13/12/2009 15:13:52
Cavan_Slasher
County: Cavan
Posts: 3574

512457 Well R.L.F. the only embarrassing thing is how people like you throw insults but cannot stand up for yourself at all.

Well able to. I just don't hide self interest under national interest!

Real Louth fan (Louth) - Posts: 3157 - 16/12/2009 15:50:20    515545

R.L.F. you do you know and you are always shouting !! Small man syndrome ?

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 16/12/2009 16:13:03    515591

16/12/2009 16:13:03
Cavan_Slasher
County: Cavan
Posts: 3577

515591 R.L.F. you do you know and you are always shouting !! Small man syndrome ?

I thought we agreed not to discuss our personal relationship ;-)

Real Louth fan (Louth) - Posts: 3157 - 16/12/2009 16:40:07    515627

R.L.F. ha ha, ok so ! We might both be embarrassed !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 16/12/2009 17:06:12    515657

Its hot and heavy on this page lads but the facts are we will have to race to the bottom to recover. Our little country is well and truely ****** for the next 8 - 10 year at least. Public sector wages will drop another 25 - 30 per cent in that time and that is the hard fact of what is in front of us. The best we can hope for is to give our next generation as little debt as possible for we must pay for the sins of our leaders.

maroon2gold (Westmeath) - Posts: 551 - 16/12/2009 17:23:43    515681

The Private Sector have had their pound of flesh now from the Public sector. What they forgot to realise is that the Public Sector will cut their spending accordding to their income.
In any case its no harm to hit the plumbers, electricians and other construction types who were too arrogant in the boom time to bother turning up for small jobs when there was big money to be made elsewhere. I had to learn how to do a lot of their so called skilled jobs myself and saved myself a bundle.

The same with the Pub owners. The off licence does me and the pals and we can watch out matches and play our cards while smoking in our own place

Tubs.of.ices (UK) - Posts: 33 - 16/12/2009 17:37:16    515703

16/12/2009 17:23:43
maroon2gold
County: Westmeath
Posts: 114

515681 Its hot and heavy on this page lads but the facts are we will have to race to the bottom to recover. Our little country is well and truely ****** for the next 8 - 10 year at least. Public sector wages will drop another 25 - 30 per cent in that time and that is the hard fact of what is in front of us. The best we can hope for is to give our next generation as little debt as possible for we must pay for the sins of our leaders.

Here's hoping!!

If the public sector mindset is in any way similar to those from that sector that post here, then 8 - 10 years would be optimistic!

Real Louth fan (Louth) - Posts: 3157 - 16/12/2009 18:21:45    515762

(1) The 5% increase in the numbers travelling to shop in New York are not from the Public Sector !!

(2) The politicians took only a realistic 2% cut but raised their expense claims to 9 million, a rise of 2% !!

(3) As i suggested they are after the Semi- Private Sector now just before the predicted return to cut the Private Sector wages !!

(4) Funny enough, people won't mind too much as long as its not just them !! Thank God for the 3 day week !! Was offered a little nixer which i am contemplating !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 16/12/2009 20:16:54    515921