Like I said on the realism thread -


Breffni39
County: Cavan
Posts: 1456

Yeah, I know. There should be a Givens out thread on here not a Trappatoni Out one If proper structures were in place the whole way through in the FAI we could have had a great team at the 2009 Euro U-21 championships.

Supple, Joey O'Brien, E Nolan, McShane, O'Dea, McGeady, Ireland, Gibson, Keith Treacy, Long, Stokes.
Subs: Randolph, O'Halloran, Spillane, Chris McCann, Garvan, Stephen Quinn, Andy Keogh etc etc etc.

The shambles the underage structures have become since Brian Kerr depresses me more than anything the senior side do.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12378 - 19/11/2009 15:27:52    488443

19/11/2009 14:23:14 patrique County: Antrim Posts: 5494 Do I believe the TRUTH. Well then, how many premiership players did Italy have in their squad? The answer will remain none. And they did win the world cup. For a week I had all the ones at work going. Italy played Australia in the last world cup. I told everyone that I had read all the Irish/British papers and watched SKY so I had put £100 on Australia to win by 5 goals. Why they asked? Well I explained, Australia have 6 premiership players, the best league in the world and all that, and Italy have NONE, so the Aussies must be a cert. Some of them were a bit confused. They might believe it was the best league in the world but they also KNEW Italy would win. I think you might be one of those confused ones Nocky. I mean, Italy had no premiership players when they won Ireland's group, in this world cup. Look at the others. Spain led by Torres from the premiership, scored 25 goals to qualify, none from Torres. And as you said, Slovenia, Slovakia, Denmark, how many had they? But Ireland, Wales, N.Ireland, and Scotland, loads of premiership players, all OUT. Maybe, just maybe, that should tell you something. ____________________ You can't be for real patrique but I'm going to reply to you anyway because it is a slow day... Have you watched the Champions League lately? Premiership teams have DOMINATED the latter stages of it in recent years. How did Inter Milan, champions of Italy, get on in the Champions League last year? Italy don't have many players playing in the Premiership because they have their own league where most of their players prefer to play. If they want to go abroad they tend to go to Spain, because it is a similar climate and the languages are similar. My point was, anyway, that this squad of Irish players was being massively underestimated by many people. If a player is good enough to play for a club in the Premiership, then they are good enough to play in the other major leagues in Europe, the Bundesliga, Primera Liga, Ligue Un, Seria A etc. Many countries who qualified for the World Cup had players who played in smaller leagues than these.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 19/11/2009 15:29:35    488446

19/11/2009 15:27:52
Breffni39
County: Cavan
Posts: 1457

488443
Like I said on the realism thread -
___________

This is the realism thread.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 19/11/2009 15:38:29    488458

nocky
County: Wexford
Posts: 648

488458 19/11/2009 15:27:52
Breffni39
County: Cavan
Posts: 1457

488443
Like I said on the realism thread -
___________

This is the realism thread.

But is it really???

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12378 - 19/11/2009 15:48:23    488476

nocky County: Wexford Posts: 648 Nocky, my old mate, Ireland have ONE world class player. The goal keeper. In the 50 years I remember them you could also throw in Brady, McGrath, and..............some would have Roy Keane, I am not convinced. But that is it. Mega rich premiership teams DOMINATE the CL because they can sign FOREIGN talents. At the moment the only world class English player is Rooney. So, footballers from GB/Ireland have NEVER done very well at INTERNATIONAL level, because they play bit parts in the mediocre premiership, where the 5th best team lose 7-0 on aggregate to a Portuguese team in Europe. In 80 years of world cups/European Cups, GB and Irish teams record reads as such. World Cup: Winners: England 1966 as the home nation. Semis: England: 1966 and 1990. European Cup: Semis: England 1968 and 1996 (home nation) So when you take away the home country bit, TWO semis in some 31 tournaments, between 5 countries. This is dwarfed by world giants like Denmark, Euro winners, and Belgium, Euro runners up and world cup semi finalists. That is reality.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 19/11/2009 15:58:57    488491

patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 5500

Maybe, just maybe, that should tell you something.

What it tells me is that you have a blind spot to the fact that England, France, Spain, Brazil, Argentina and several others have qualified for the world cup with premiership players. Come on now, Patrique, this isnt the kiddies corner.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12378 - 19/11/2009 16:01:03    488494

Breffni39
County: Cavan
Posts: 1465

488494
patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 5500

Maybe, just maybe, that should tell you something.

What it tells me is that you have a blind spot to the fact that England, France, Spain, Brazil, Argentina and several others have qualified for the world cup with premiership players. Come on now, Patrique, this isnt the kiddies corner


Breff, you need to READ my post.

I said the STARS in the premiership were from overseas, like France, Spain, Argentina, and ONE from Brazil, Robinho.

I also said by and large the GB/Irish players were bit players. So England managed to overcome a load of new eastern European republics, and ANDORRA, but that does not detract from the fact that buy and large, GB/Irish sides have a TERRIBLE record at international level.

We are in danger of becoming like the moronic English fans. The real English fans know the score.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 19/11/2009 18:13:30    488717

Patrique,

I did read your post and it was your usual ill-informed, irrational, "trying to justify your crazy grudges" type of patented nonsense. It is pure illogical drivel. There is no basis to it. You exist in a crazy la-la land where the reality of situations does not exist, the only things that actually exists are things that make you right. Its impossible for the likes of me to decipher.

Plus I dont NEED you to put CERTAIN words in CAPSLOCK when you are trying to EXPLAIN gibberish to me.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12378 - 19/11/2009 19:51:46    488821

19/11/2009 15:58:57 patrique County: Antrim Posts: 5526 Nocky, my old mate, Ireland have ONE world class player. The goal keeper. In the 50 years I remember them you could also throw in Brady, McGrath, and..............some would have Roy Keane, I am not convinced. But that is it. Mega rich premiership teams DOMINATE the CL because they can sign FOREIGN talents. At the moment the only world class English player is Rooney. So, footballers from GB/Ireland have NEVER done very well at INTERNATIONAL level, because they play bit parts in the mediocre premiership, where the 5th best team lose 7-0 on aggregate to a Portuguese team in Europe. In 80 years of world cups/European Cups, GB and Irish teams record reads as such. World Cup: Winners: England 1966 as the home nation. Semis: England: 1966 and 1990. European Cup: Semis: England 1968 and 1996 (home nation) So when you take away the home country bit, TWO semis in some 31 tournaments, between 5 countries. This is dwarfed by world giants like Denmark, Euro winners, and Belgium, Euro runners up and world cup semi finalists. That is reality. _____________ 1. Where did I say Ireland had more than one world class player. 2. You have turned what was a debate about international teams into a debate about the premiership. You first say that it is a poor league then you say premier league teams dominate the champions league. 3. You say that premier league teams buy world class talent. Yes, they do. As do German teams, Italian teams and Spanish teams etc. What is you point? 4. If Irish players are able to play against these world class players every wek in the premiership, then they must be okay. 5. English teams don't really care about the Europa League. 6. Everton are in extremely poor form this year compared to last year when they came 5th. They also are decimated by injuries. 7. That "Portugese team" contained several Brazilians. 8. Ireland has a very small population in comparison to other nations and soccer is only the #2 sport, maybe this has something to do with our lack of true "world class" players. 9. Not sure why you're bringing the English, Scottish and Welsh football teams into this debate. 10. My origianal point was that we had a squad of players who were at least on a par with other European teams who have qualified for the WC. Do you think that Slovakia, Slovenia, Denmark, Switerland etc. have substantially better squads than us? I think its great that you have found out how to use the return bar on your keyboard. But it just makes your posts even more frustrating to read.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 19/11/2009 20:47:02    488869

Breffni39 County: Cavan Posts: 1466 Breffni, Many of my GIBBERISH sayings come to fruition. It was my newspaper headline in 1995 "Sinn Fein/DUP to Share Power" that brought most derision. Guess who is NOW sharing power. 2006 I ranted about Henry cheating Spain, no-one interested, our lovely British Thierry wouldn't do that, and besides, spain are dirty foreigners anyway, was the gist of what I got. NOW, EVERYONE agrees with me. And I have been telling one and all for YEARS that football is bent. NO-ONE listened. Some STILL believe that Liverpool were capable of coming from 3-0 down to Milan the best team in the world in 2005, having already lost EVERY game that season in which they were behind. They might have doubts now. Now, there is no need to dis[parage me because I am right. That is childish. Of course, if you have found a single player in that Italian squad who was a premiership player, I will retract ALL.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 19/11/2009 22:49:22    489027

19/11/2009 22:49:22
patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 5536

Of course, if you have found a single player in that Italian squad who was a premiership player, I will retract ALL.
__________

Oh, now I get it. Marco Materazzi.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 20/11/2009 00:12:01    489099

nocky
County: Wexford
Posts: 662


Do you think that Slovakia, Slovenia, Denmark, Switerland etc. have substantially better squads than us?



Do I think these teams have better squads. Is this the SAME Switzerland who constantly beat Ireland in qualifying tournaments, and just won the World U17 cup?

Is that major tournament winners Denmark, who easily finished on top of Portugal's group?

And Slovakia, part of a country in two World cup finals, former European champions, and lost a few European finals.

and Slovenia who have just knocked out Russia.


No I do not think they have better squads than Ireland. I KNOW it.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 20/11/2009 02:12:55    489132

20/11/2009 02:12:55 patrique County: Antrim Posts: 5552 489132 nocky County: Wexford Posts: 662 Do you think that Slovakia, Slovenia, Denmark, Switerland etc. have substantially better squads than us? Do I think these teams have better squads. Is this the SAME Switzerland who constantly beat Ireland in qualifying tournaments, and just won the World U17 cup? Is that major tournament winners Denmark, who easily finished on top of Portugal's group? And Slovakia, part of a country in two World cup finals, former European champions, and lost a few European finals. and Slovenia who have just knocked out Russia. No I do not think they have better squads than Ireland. I KNOW it. ________________ Right, because Denmark won the Euro92 (17 years ago), they must now have a better squad than Ireland. Slovakia, a team who has never qualified for a major tournament before, must be a better team than us because together with the Czech Republic they achieved success decades ago as Czechoslovakia. Also, Switzerland must currently have a better squad because they just won the u17 WC (how many of these players play in the senior squad?), and because they beat us 4 years ago. You correctly say that Slovenia knocked out Russia - does this prove that they have a better squad than us? We will never know what would have happened had we drawn Russia. I think there might just be some flaws in your logic patrique, but you will have to take back your whole argument now anyway since I named a member of the Italian squad in WC2006 who played in the PL.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 20/11/2009 14:27:43    489416

nocky
County: Wexford
Posts: 665




I think there might just be some flaws in your logic patrique, but you will have to take back your whole argument now anyway since I named a member of the Italian squad in WC2006 who played in the PL



Scrapping the barrel Nocky.

Even I know Inter Milan were NOT in the premiership in 2006.

In the Championship maybe.......................

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 20/11/2009 14:56:44    489451

nocky
County: Wexford
Posts: 665




No I do not think they have better squads than Ireland. I KNOW it.
________________

Right, because Denmark won the Euro92 (17 years ago), they must now have a better squad than Ireland. Slovakia, a team who has never qualified for a major tournament before, must be a better team than us because together with the Czech Republic they achieved success decades ago as Czechoslovakia. Also, Switzerland must currently have a better squad because they just won the u17 WC (how many of these players play in the senior squad?), and because they beat us 4 years ago. You correctly say that Slovenia knocked out Russia - does this prove that they have a better squad than us? We will never know what would have happened had we drawn Russia.


The seeding for the European Championship was done YESTERDAY, 19th November 2009. You cannot get much more up to date, based on results.


Pot One Spain, Germany, Holland, Italy, England, Croatia, Portugal, France, Russia.

Pot Two Greece, Czech Republic, Sweden, Switzerland, Serbia, Turkey, Denmark, Slovakia, Romania.

Pot Three Israel, Bulgaria, Finland, Norway, Republic of Ireland, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Austria, Bosnia-Herzegovina



I note that Denmark, Slovakia and Switzerland are ALL seeded higher than the Republic of Ireland.

It would seem that EUFA agree with me.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 20/11/2009 15:06:01    489463

Patrique , you claim to be a NORTHERN IRELAND supporter but then say ''we don't know what might have happened had WE drawn Russia??'' You are entitled to support who you want but a bit of consistency please!!

dubupnorth (Dublin) - Posts: 1897 - 20/11/2009 15:16:31    489480

Pass no heed on our Bitter Nordie Brethren,for we have once again resumed Normal service and Passed them out in the rankings list,Pity we can't draw them in the Euro Qualifiers we would Humiliate them like we always do when we play them-Even in that Crumbling **** **** of a stadium in Baalfaast.

fredrickwood (Roscommon) - Posts: 2871 - 20/11/2009 15:39:02    489525

fredrickwood , funny thing is , I've lived in Derry 9 years and not ONE Catholic person I know supports the Northern team. They are 100% Republic fans. Just a pity Paddy McCourt had already played internationally for them before he realised his potential at Celtic.

dubupnorth (Dublin) - Posts: 1897 - 20/11/2009 15:43:19    489535

19/11/2009 22:49:22
patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 5536

Of course, if you have found a single player in that Italian squad who was a premiership player, I will retract ALL.
______________

Marco Materazzi was a PL player whether you like it or not patrique, and he wasn't very good there. If what you say is true defenders in the PL are rubbish, so Materazzi who was Italy's defender at WC2006 and starts for Italy's best team must be worse than rubbish.

You have now changed your argument again and have decided to use the FIFA rankings as a way to "prove" that Ireland are worse than some of the other European teams I mentioned who have qualified. Even this does not hold up because at the time they qualified for the WC both Slovenia and Slovakia were ranked below Ireland (Slovenia by a long way).

But we all know that the FIFA rankings are flawed anyway - for example, do you believe Cameroon are actually the 11th best nation because that's where FIFA rank them?

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 20/11/2009 15:49:33    489558

fredrickwood
County: Roscommon
Posts: 1455

-Even in that Crumbling **** **** of a stadium in Baalfaast.



Such jealousy. Just because WE have a SOCCER stadium.

Wouldn't get us playing soccer in GAA grounds.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 20/11/2009 16:11:02    489578