Lets put all national Loyalty aside for one second here lads and be honest Given - Quality, no question. Top 10 in the world Kilbane - Horror Show, Brutal, Liability Dunne - Decent, error prone, gives it his all. Strong in the air Sledge - Championship standard. No more. Josh - Decent but also very error prone when in possesion. Has an awful tendancy to just hoof it when in green Duff - More past it than Bill Hicks. Move over and let McGeady in Whelan - Has a good shot and will run all day, but sure so would half the country Andrews - Useless. Simple as Lawrence - Decent. Should take Andrews spot in the middle as is made to play Centre Mid. Good in possesion. Can actually use the ball...cant believe Trap likes him! Shock! Doyle - The ball goes up...the ball comes back...the ball goes up...the ball comes back.....EXTREMELY over rated! Keane - Decent club player, scores against mediocre teams (Italy excluded, whats rare is wonderful) Spends more time on the wing swinging his arms than actually in the opposition box. Subs Hunt - Comedy Gold McGeady - Bags of talent, needs to get a consistent run in the team. To think we can leave him out is laughable. McShame - Nuff said...... Best - No your not....

Mikeynora (Limerick) - Posts: 888 - 18/11/2009 09:54:34    486977

I think you went past the realism barrier and some of your statements are very harsh. Andrews is far from useless, he was one of our best players on Saturday.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12376 - 18/11/2009 11:00:58    487047

Realism hurts

ConnollyDub (Dublin) - Posts: 2007 - 18/11/2009 11:09:01    487054

Spot on mikeynora

NavyNBlue (Dublin) - Posts: 1357 - 18/11/2009 11:26:50    487067

I have to say that I can't see us qualifying at this stage but I would hope that we bow out showing pride, dignity and skill. There will be a sizable Irish contingent in the Stade de France tonight and they deserve that at least.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9788 - 18/11/2009 11:32:59    487075

Mikeynora you've hit the nail on the head there,it was like reading what i honestly think and to be honest i think most people if they really took off the green shaded glasses which can be hard to do as i often have them on myself when talking bout our chances but realistically this is the worst Irish team in a long time.I don't like knocking anyone who gives their all for the jersey but when Kevin Kilbane earns a hundred caps for our country you know were in trouble,he wouldn't of even been on the team bus when the Charlton era was going on never mind the starting eleven.The problem is we are a sports mad country we want to do well and we hate missing out on all those Major tournaments so the media and alot of fans including myself build us up better than we are on the faint chance we might get to these tournaments,now International football these days there isnt alot between the teams once you go outside the top 8 or ten in the world so in one instance we can compete but the problem is as a small country we generally always have about 5 or 6 good players and then lots of filler in between like to have no alternative to Keane or Doyle and expect to beat France or any other top side is madness,we have no centre back to stick in beside Dunne,We have no center midfield to speak of i see fellas down at night owls playing ball here in Waterford that have more techincal abilty than Whelan or Andrews.All that said ill be praying we can pull of a miracle tonight because the green tinted glasses will be on and ill always support an Irish team no matter what there flaws because they always give it their best.

UptheDeise (Waterford) - Posts: 225 - 18/11/2009 12:17:46    487130

I don't think you were real with regards mc geady. the lad has an abundance of talent don't get me wrong but needs a move to the premiership to help him develop fully. at the moment he has all the skill in the world but lacks a quality end product.
spot on with regards lawrence cracking player. don't agree with doyle, he works alot harder than buffoon keane up front and doesnt get the credit he deserves at times.

cavanmuja (Cavan) - Posts: 228 - 18/11/2009 12:21:42    487142

When i saw that the title was REALISM, i was expecting you to write that
1.we are a small nation of just under 5 million.
2.we punched above our weight for years
3.we are competing in a sport which is referred to by many as a foreign sport.

Fredthered (Donegal) - Posts: 1144 - 18/11/2009 12:33:33    487160

Agree with most of what you say, apart from McGeady,Never seems to produce an end product. He's all spick and no span.

The fact that team has gotten this far is quite an achievment.

JuanVeron (Westmeath) - Posts: 1866 - 18/11/2009 12:35:45    487165

JuanVeron
County: Westmeath
Posts: 918

487165 Agree with most of what you say, apart from McGeady,Never seems to produce an end product. He's all spick and no span.

The fact that team has gotten this far is quite an achievment.

All fart and no S****

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12376 - 18/11/2009 13:03:26    487201

Realism?

They lost 4-1 last night in the U21 to ARMENIA. They have played 6 games, failed to win, and bottom of the group, which includes Armenia, Estonia and Georgia.

now you know.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 18/11/2009 13:44:49    487259

Pretty true mickey just shows what a great achievement it was to make the playoff

denzel (None) - Posts: 452 - 18/11/2009 14:29:34    487331

patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 5462

487259 Realism?

They lost 4-1 last night in the U21 to ARMENIA. They have played 6 games, failed to win, and bottom of the group, which includes Armenia, Estonia and Georgia.

now you know.

Yeah, I know. There should be a Givens out thread on here not a Trappatoni Out one If proper structures were in place the whole way through in the FAI we could have had a great team at the 2009 Euro U-21 championships.

Supple, Joey O'Brien, E Nolan, McShane, O'Dea, McGeady, Ireland, Gibson, Keith Treacy, Long, Stokes.
Subs: Randolph, O'Halloran, Spillane, Chris McCann, Garvan, Stephen Quinn, Andy Keogh etc etc etc.

The shambles the underage structures have become since Brian Kerr depresses me more than anything the senior side do.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12376 - 18/11/2009 14:33:23    487334

Actually Breff, I think he might be the latter!!

JuanVeron (Westmeath) - Posts: 1866 - 18/11/2009 14:54:22    487369

Slovakia, Switzerland, Denmark. All these countries have qualified for the World Cup from the European section by WINNING THEIR GROUPS. They have players from Cesena, Terek Grozny, Spartak Trnava, FC Midtjylland, Aarhus Gymnastikforening, FC Luzerne and many more footballing backwaters in their teams. The fact is we have a squad of Premiership players, with our only major weak positions being left back (Kilbane isn't up to it any more, alternatives injured or untested), one centre midfielder (which is more due to injury and Stephen Ireland's unavailability than anything else) and possibly centrehalf, although I think St. Ledger is well on the way to becoming a Premiership player. I can't understand how people continue to put down this group of players and paint them as no-hopers. John O'Shea is right-back for Manchester United for feck sake! If he's not performing for Ireland then you should maybe be looking at the manager, because he's good enough for Alex Ferguson and has won Premiership and Champions League medals. Damien Duff is another with a Premiership medal. Richard Dunne is statistically the best defender in the Premiership this year, Andy Reid is statistically the best left winger. We have a goalkeeper who is top 5 in the world. Robbie Keane and Kevin Doyle are both proven Premiership goalscorers, Keane with a top 6 club. Mikeynora says about Kevin Doyle "The ball goes up...the ball comes back...the ball goes up...the ball comes back..." Why do you think this is? Maybe it has something to do with the quality of ball Doyle gets (long hoofs from the back) and the fact that he is completely isolated and outnumbered by opposition defenders almost every time. If we don't give them a chance by just hoofing long balls for them to exhaust themselves chasing then they aren't going to score much. I really don't get the man-love some people have for McGeady either, he is a luxury player, he will try tricks that come off maybe 1/5 times, the other 4 times he will lose the ball. His final ball is shocking. He is a squad player who could be brought on or start if the first choice players are injured, nothing more. We have a squad of players who are good enough, but our manager isn't getting the best out of their talents.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 18/11/2009 16:08:03    487473

Breffni39
County: Cavan
Posts: 1449

487334



Brian Kerr was shamefully treated/mistreated by Ireland. They shouldn't have made him manager, rich footballer's egos are NEVER going to be massaged by unknowns like Kerr, but they should have moved heaven and earth to keep him with the youngsters.

Switzerland have just wn the Worold U17 title. Not so long ago Ireland were contenders at that level.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 19/11/2009 01:09:19    487964

18/11/2009 16:08:03
nocky
County: Wexford
Posts: 633


The fact is we have a squad of Premiership players,




Nocky, here was only one squad without a single premiership player in it at the last world cup.


That was ITALY.

ITALY won the tournament.

Your post about Denmark and Slovenia further proves the point. The premiership is not very good, especially the defending. It is over hyped by the people who OWN it, SKY TV.


Can you IMAGINE John O'Shea getting on ANY Italian team? As a defender? Exactly.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 19/11/2009 01:13:52    487966

19/11/2009 01:13:52
patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 5489

Nocky, here was only one squad without a single premiership player in it at the last world cup.

That was ITALY.

ITALY won the tournament.

Your post about Denmark and Slovenia further proves the point. The premiership is not very good, especially the defending. It is over hyped by the people who OWN it, SKY TV.

Can you IMAGINE John O'Shea getting on ANY Italian team? As a defender? Exactly.
________

Are you on the wind up or do you actually believe the drivel you post patrique? John O'Shea or Richard Dunne would walk onto many Italian teams. O'Shea plays for the best team in the best league in the world and in the champions league and even has started in a champions league final or have you forgotten? Do you honestly believe that the standard of defending is so bad at Man United and Villa in the Premiership that it is worse than the Danish, Russian, Swiss leagues and Seria B? Get real.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 19/11/2009 12:24:40    488197

18/11/2009 09:54:34 Mikeynora County: Limerick Posts: 226 486977 Lets put all national Loyalty aside for one second here lads and be honest Given - Quality, no question. Top 10 in the world Kilbane - Horror Show, Brutal, Liability Dunne - Decent, error prone, gives it his all. Strong in the air Sledge - Championship standard. No more. Josh - Decent but also very error prone when in possesion. Has an awful tendancy to just hoof it when in green Duff - More past it than Bill Hicks. Move over and let McGeady in Whelan - Has a good shot and will run all day, but sure so would half the country Andrews - Useless. Simple as Lawrence - Decent. Should take Andrews spot in the middle as is made to play Centre Mid. Good in possesion. Can actually use the ball...cant believe Trap likes him! Shock! Doyle - The ball goes up...the ball comes back...the ball goes up...the ball comes back.....EXTREMELY over rated! Keane - Decent club player, scores against mediocre teams (Italy excluded, whats rare is wonderful) Spends more time on the wing swinging his arms than actually in the opposition box. Subs Hunt - Comedy Gold McGeady - Bags of talent, needs to get a consistent run in the team. To think we can leave him out is laughable. McShame - Nuff said...... Best - No your not.... ___________________ Care to correct your assessment of the Irish players after last night Nora? For the first time Trap actually let the lads play football and look at what happened. Absolutely brilliant performance by the boys in green (or white). Made a mockery of all those who said we were a crowd of useless talentless hoofers, the worst Irish squad ever, etc. I will be the first to admit I was wrong about Andrews and Whelan in midfield, they were absolutely magnificient last night. Andrews made the £20million man Lassana Diarra look like a championship player. They were stifled by Trap's system in earlier matches and were afraid to play the ball for fear of being dropped, when he finally let them off their leash they were brilliant, playing good passes along the ground and getting forward at every opportunity to support the front two. Likewise Liam Lawrence, who can't get into Stoke's team, was brilliant. I didn't think he was capable of a performance like that, but he proved me wrong. Kilbane was excellent, what a pass to Duff for the goal. He wouldn't have made that pass in any other match because he wasn't allowed over the halfway line, except maybe for corners. St. Ledger saw off Gignac, Anelka and Henry at various times last night, proved he is up to the standard and will be playing in the PL next year with Middlesboro or someone else. The defenders you labelled "error prone" didn't make a single error all night. Given is top 5 in the world, not just top 10. Your hero McGeady was his usual useless self last night as well, running into two defenders and squandering our last chance by overhitting the free kick. I have to laugh when I read your assessment of Robbie Keane, hilarious! Kevin Doyle worked his socks off as usual this time for 120mins. Makes you wonder why Trap hauls him off for lesser players after 60-70 in every other match. The bench was terrible last night, Stephen Kelly would surely have been a better option at right back than the accident waiting to happen that is McShane. Andy Reid would have done far more with and without the ball than Darron Gibson who was completely out of his depth. Lee Carsley is another more defensive option who would have been better. Trap needs to take a look at the video of teh game last night and the game in Dublin and realise that we need to play the way we played in Paris in every match. Who still thinks he was getting the best out of this group of players when we were drawing 0-0 with Montenegro and struggling against Georgia and Cyprus?

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 19/11/2009 12:55:46    488220

19/11/2009 12:24:40 nocky County: Wexford Posts: 640 488197 19/11/2009 01:13:52 patrique County: Antrim Posts: 5489 Nocky, here was only one squad without a single premiership player in it at the last world cup. That was ITALY. ITALY won the tournament. Your post about Denmark and Slovenia further proves the point. The premiership is not very good, especially the defending. It is over hyped by the people who OWN it, SKY TV. Can you IMAGINE John O'Shea getting on ANY Italian team? As a defender? Exactly. ________ Are you on the wind up or do you actually believe the stuff you post patrique? John O'Shea or Richard Dunne would walk onto many Italian teams. O'Shea plays for the best team in the best league in the world Do I believe the TRUTH. Well then, how many premiership players did Italy have in their squad? The answer will remain none. And they did win the world cup. For a week I had all the ones at work going. Italy played Australia in the last world cup. I told everyone that I had read all the Irish/British papers and watched SKY so I had put £100 on Australia to win by 5 goals. Why they asked? Well I explained, Australia have 6 premiership players, the best league in the world and all that, and Italy have NONE, so the Aussies must be a cert. Some of them were a bit confused. They might believe it was the best league in the world but they also KNEW Italy would win. I think you might be one of those confused ones Nocky. I mean, Italy had no premiership players when they won Ireland's group, in this world cup. Look at the others. Spain led by Torres from the premiership, scored 25 goals to qualify, none from Torres. And as you said, Slovenia, Slovakia, Denmark, how many had they? But Ireland, Wales, N.Ireland, and Scotland, loads of premiership players, all OUT. Maybe, just maybe, that should tell you something.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 19/11/2009 14:23:14    488326