I have no pity for teachers none...its a hobby not a job

tomaoo7 (Dublin) - Posts: 5896 - 25/11/2009 21:21:33    494185

PLEASE READ
tommaoo7- Have to disagree with that comment, my missus is teacher and its sick the amount of work/marking/paperwork/planning/differentiating for different levels of ability and assessing they do. The stress they are under and the constant scrutiny they under from parents and the public is immense. They never benefitted from the boom and now the government is coming for a second bite at them. It is not fair on them - they are right to strike, we couldnt do without them, they are professionals and have studided hard for the job. If its a hobby - lets all get the leaving points, get a degree, get a teaching qualification and become teachers.
That said, there are some dossers in the profession, but a few. Walk on to any site or walk into any office or bank and u'll see your fair share of dossers also.

Brolly (Monaghan) - Posts: 4472 - 25/11/2009 21:57:05    494226

25/11/2009 21:57:05
Brolly
County: Monaghan
Posts: 750

494226 PLEASE READ
tommaoo7- Have to disagree with that comment, my missus is teacher and its sick the amount of work/marking/paperwork/planning/differentiating for different levels of ability and assessing they do. The stress they are under and the constant scrutiny they under from parents and the public is immense. They never benefitted from the boom and now the government is coming for a second bite at them. It is not fair on them - they are right to strike, we couldnt do without them, they are professionals and have studided hard for the job. If its a hobby - lets all get the leaving points, get a degree, get a teaching qualification and become teachers.
That said, there are some dossers in the profession, but a few. Walk on to any site or walk into any office or bank and u'll see your fair share of dossers also.


That's your missus's choice so why are you giving out to tomaoo for.Tell her to get out of teaching and go to a better paid job with 4 month's holiday's and holiday pay !!!!!!,you won't find it in to many other proffesion's !!!!!

Duffy89 (Wexford) - Posts: 3320 - 25/11/2009 22:01:58    494231

Brolly take the hit and move on-Its not a life and death situation..theirs 500,000 unemployed in this country at the moment with no future..Who's speaking for them..

tomaoo7 (Dublin) - Posts: 5896 - 25/11/2009 22:04:46    494236

Well the unemployment is certainly not the teachers fault either. What i will say to yourself (tomaoo7) and duffy is - read my first line were i clearly state that i disagreed with your comment on the job being a hobby, and then outlined reasons for that. We'll agree to disagree :)

Brolly (Monaghan) - Posts: 4472 - 25/11/2009 22:11:50    494251

Brolly,from what I read is your saying that it's a difficult job,and you need good leaving points,university degree up till 3 in the morning blah blah blah blah


I worked nights in Dunnes Stores,started at 10pm and didn't finish till 8am on some nights (1 night I didn't finish till 10am !!),i got 4 weeks off in the year,an hr and a half break a night,paid 10euro an hr and got cursed at for what effort I was giving,and I certainly was not in a trade union because Dunnes stores don't have employees on trade union's


Your wife works from 9-3/4 and if she's a secondary teacher she'd get a good bit of break's during the day.your wife is paying a nice pension which she'll get back when she retires,get paid a nice amount,can get paid more if she gives grimes,and is in a trade union to rant to the govt.,get up to at least 4 mth's holiday's a year (which she'll be paid for)

So don't start giving out about the ''poor teacher's'',it's there choice,and they knew what they are getting themselves in for when they signed up there CAO at 6th yr !!!!!!

Duffy89 (Wexford) - Posts: 3320 - 25/11/2009 22:23:27    494267

Did i blame the teachers for this downturn brolly

tomaoo7 (Dublin) - Posts: 5896 - 25/11/2009 22:26:38    494273

Duffy i know they did, and perhaps more of us should have went into the profession seeing its so handy. Any reasons why you didnt? Do you think its fair that the government should take more from them - they've been hit already?

Brolly (Monaghan) - Posts: 4472 - 25/11/2009 22:28:03    494275

Brolly

Do you think it's fair that the Government should take from private sector workers (those that haven't been made redundant), the majority of whom have suffered at least 10% in pay cuts on top of the tax increases/levies from last year? And this money should be taken just to ensure that public sector wages are maintained at their current level?

Did your wife accept the benchmarking increases?

Benchmarking was brought in because the public sector demanded that their pay should move in line with private sector wages. Public sector unions demanding benchmarking because they claimed it wasn't fair that public sector workers be denied the increases that private sector growth was bringing to private sector workers? Surely by that logic then it's only fair that public sector wages should fall in line with the private sector falls?

Or does fairness only apply when it benefits certain groups?

black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 25/11/2009 22:37:52    494289

So why didn't you do it yourself then if its so handy? I suppose its the teachers fault that you didn't go to college too?

Junior Hurler (Wexford) - Posts: 83 - 25/11/2009 22:38:55    494292

Black & White, many people used the C.S.O. figures several times to help make their arguments on previous threads !1 The latest C.S.O. release stated that only 25% of the Private Sector actually took any kind of cut and even today I.B.E.C. threatened to pull out of partnership because their workers want pay increases. Now the figures about pay cuts do not add up !! We are being sold a pup methinks !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 25/11/2009 22:55:38    494305

25/11/2009 22:28:03
Brolly
County: Monaghan
Posts: 753

494275 Duffy i know they did, and perhaps more of us should have went into the profession seeing its so handy. Any reasons why you didnt? Do you think its fair that the government should take more from them - they've been hit already?


I'm currently unemployed,going to be doing a PLC course in sept,and then after the course i'm off to IT Carlow to start doing physiotherapy,after I get through college i'm going to own me own business in hopefully sports rehabilation,I'll set my own holiday's after slogging to start off me business,I certainly ain't going to become a teacher.Andyes Ido think it's fair to bring the pay down,why not,their in a job for life (unlike some people around the country),that's why the points in the LC are so high,and also tell me,what way can a teacher possibly lose there job ?,its unless they lose there mind,or do something thick stupid.

Duffy89 (Wexford) - Posts: 3320 - 25/11/2009 23:06:34    494322

Slasher

What CSO figures stated that?

The most recent CSO publication on hourly earnings is for Q2 2009 that showed an increase compared to Q2 2008, but a decrease since Q1 2009?
Pay cuts in the private sector only really started becoming widespread in Jan/Feb 2009, so it'll be Q1 2010 before the CSO stats begin to show the full effect of these cuts for the YoY basis.

I work auditing private companies. Only one company that I have been at in the last 12 months hasn't implemented pay reductions. My collegues are seeing the same in other clients.
My salary is down 21% before you take into account the tax increases.
Don't try to tell me that the private sector isn't experiencing widespread cuts because I have seen the evidence.

And I notice all the public sector posters are ignoring all mention of benchmarking. I ask again, does "fairness" mean something different when it's not in your interests?

black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 25/11/2009 23:31:50    494360

Junior hurler has the only word of any reason on this. If it's so easy, well paid and such a cushy number how come all the bemoaners chose other professions? Sure any fool could be a teacher. And as for teaching being a hobby? Nonsensical. I am a worker and by christ do I work. There are too many teachers who don't. There are plenty of architects, technicians, plasterers who are useless too. Ireland is a petty nation of begrudgers, whingers and gossips. "He has it, I don't, I know what I'll do, I'll knock him down a peg or two." Ireland is a small fish in a big pond, we are screwed. I don't want to pay for it, my neighbour doesn't want to pay for it, no one does. It's human nature, what I have I will defend and sod the rest. Public sector and private sector need to cop the hell on. Blaming each other, finger pointing, jealousy. Unions both private and public are a total and utter disgrace. I cringe when I see Jack O Connor coming onto the screeen claiming to speak in my name. His points are pathetic and weak while missing out on reality. I'm a teacher and the strike is absolutely ridiculous. I stood for my few hours in the rain in limerick with my colleagues but i realise that it is pointless striking without public support. Those who did not attend for strike duty and went "shopping" are shameful, as were the media who practically said it was a 5mile tail back of INTO members on the way into Newry. The vast majority were mam's taking their kids, who wrongly were out of school, to do a bit of shopping. We are Irish, we want someone to blame, so I blame the land speculators, the governement pushing up the VAT while Northern Ireland's drops, our inflated standard of living funded by credit, the banks, negative equity. Where is the demand on Tesco to drop the price of a pint of milk to that of Northern Ireland's? I am willing to take a pay cut, as are the vast majority of teachers, I've done my sums and as long as my girlfiriend stays in work in the private sector i can hack between 7 and 8%. No more though, that is me at the pin of my collar. Stop this ignorant, futile teacher, private sector, construction, nurse bashing tit for tat. I sympathise with those fathers and mothers who don't know where santa is going to come from this year, with people working but having the noose still around their necks,. We are all human who want the best for themselves but until we realise that we need to grow up and stop pointless bickering we are digging a deeper hole. Last thing, health is wealth and don't ever forget it.

The_16th_Man (Clare) - Posts: 251 - 25/11/2009 23:47:25    494379

25/11/2009 22:55:38
Cavan_Slasher
County: Cavan
Posts: 3301

494305 Black & White, many people used the C.S.O. figures several times to help make their arguments on previous threads !1 The latest C.S.O. release stated that only 25% of the Private Sector actually took any kind of cut and even today I.B.E.C. threatened to pull out of partnership because their workers want pay increases. Now the figures about pay cuts do not add up !! We are being sold a pup methinks !!

______________________
Slasher

Where are you getting those CSO numbers? have you actually read the report The stats are based on average hourly wages not pay now versus previous years for the same people. Even assuming that the stats are correct

1.There are several hundred thousand private sector workers whose wage is now nil and who are not in the statistics
2. The majoirty of job losses are at in construction, Retail, Service, Hospitality and unskilled manufacturing all of which would have had a wage below the average
If these people are no longer in employment the average would actually increase as people in higher skilled manufacturing (eg US pharma) have kept their jobs even if they have taken a paycut.
3. Financial Services jobs would not be impacted by the low/high skill mix and average salary is down 11.9%. This number was also quoted in the papers at the weekend but presume impact or whoever you are quoting decided to ignore this.
4. The stats dont include pension benefits - Anyone in a private sector pension that is DC would have seen their pension fund fall 40% in the last two years. Public servants have seen the value of theirs grow by circa 15% due to indexation and accrued service benefit.
to put that in perspective for someone in the private sector who is 60 years of age and who hoped to earn a pension of say 30k the same as his public sector friend - he would need to have had about €700k saved - he has had about €250k of the wiped out and will only get about €18k per annum while his public sector friend is now getting €32k becase of 2007/2008 indexation.

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 25/11/2009 23:54:58    494390

CSO and generalisations have never and will never give a true reflection of how the ordinary run of the mill joe soap, private, public or unemployed is getting on.

The_16th_Man (Clare) - Posts: 251 - 26/11/2009 00:03:39    494397

Black & White and Ruanua,

It was in the papers last weekend. I looked for them but she who must be obeyed has thrown them out, but it was in the papers !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 26/11/2009 11:11:54    494620

slasher

www.cso.ie publications 20/11/09 and work it out yourself

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 26/11/2009 11:43:04    494641

Best of luck with that duffy. Teachers actually can lose their jobs. Cuts in all sectors mean that a lot will be made unemployed in the next year - newly qualified teachers will be left on the shelf. There are a lot of teachers tied up in temporary contracts - they dont get paid holidays etc, and are struggling to find permanent work. They are being hit. No group is immune.

Brolly (Monaghan) - Posts: 4472 - 26/11/2009 12:07:06    494678

26/11/2009 12:07:06
Brolly
County: Monaghan
Posts: 755

494678 Best of luck with that duffy. Teachers actually can lose their jobs. Cuts in all sectors mean that a lot will be made unemployed in the next year - newly qualified teachers will be left on the shelf. There are a lot of teachers tied up in temporary contracts - they dont get paid holidays etc, and are struggling to find permanent work. They are being hit. No group is immune.

When is the last time a PS worker on a permanent contract was involuntarily made redundent? This "my job's not really safe" stuff is BS. And please don't mention temporary contracts. In the private sector temps get let go on a regular basis and there's no fuss about it as they understand that it's simple the nature of their contract. Whereas private sector workers on permanent contracts could be let go in the morning. There's no value in pretending that the PS is in the same boat.

RMDrive (Donegal) - Posts: 2202 - 26/11/2009 12:26:37    494696