Patrique

I had a chance to be General Secreatary there but that pays about 50,000 euros a year but means a 16 hour day,

Down here asst seceratray is €170k which is also the basis for a union leaders salary both for about a 30 hour week. A Sec General gets an extra €50k.
The pension benefits are worth 40% on top of that. Im not sure if they get expenses and allowances - highly unlikely

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 16/11/2009 23:00:12    485718

16/11/2009 16:06:07
black&white
County: Sligo
Posts: 580

485178 rua

I'm an Assistant Manager in Big 4 firm, and figures stated are current going rate across Deloitte, PwC, EY and KPMG.
______________
Apologies clearly you would know. Ten years ago the going rate was 30k IEP thought it would have gone up more. We are large clients of two of the above and the hourly rates have gone up by a bigger percentage in the last ten years. Though I am aware that there was pay cuts in a few of them last year. Even still I assume you are being charged out at about €250k a year (1250x200) (after non billed time) which is a good return for somebody somewhere.

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 16/11/2009 23:06:59    485724

Cavan_Slasher County: Cavan Posts: 3225 485455 Black & White, you are not so naive to believe that all the self assessed are honest in their tax affairs and that they cannot fiddle their books by the use of a good accountant. The dentist who is getting education grants for his children is well connected with a big noise in the income tax office and will not be put under any pressure by them at all imo. I often saw them golfing together !! many people would say "fair play to him" !! Of course I'm don't believe that all self-assessed tax payers are honest, but the vast majority are. Both of my parents are self-employed, creating jobs for others by virtue of their businesses. Neither have ever manipulated a tax return, but by your logic their scamming everyone left, right and centre? Whilst I was in college I spent two summers working in an a small accountants office in Sligo, preparing accounts and tax returns for farmers, builders and shop-keepers. Not one person was manipulating the books, and they were all more worried about getting hit with penalties and fines if they made a mistake than they were with trying to squeeze an extra few euro out of the tax bill. Falling under self-assessment also means that someone is self-employed, and is usually operating as a partnership or sole trader. They take on all of the risk of running the business, and stand liable to lose every personal possession, including their homes, if the business fails. They don't get a PAYE tax credit (E1,830) and if their business fails they are not entitled to social welfare benefits, unlike people who were employed by others. Every expense that they incur for the business that employed people take for granted (e.g. mileage) comes from their own pockets, and they have to 100% fund their own pension (something that even the most stingy employer wouldn't force on employees). As I said before, you're main gripe with self-assessment seems to be that being part of the PAYE system prevents you from committing fraud. If you know of people doing it so flagrantly then go the the guards. If they're conspiring with Revenue officials then shop them too. If you have suspicions but you can't prove anything then ring Revenue in Limerick and tell them that you have suspicions and why, they'll put this dentist onto the high risk list and he'll be in line for a Revenue audit pretty soon. If there's anything fishy going on then a Revenue audit will catch it.

black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 17/11/2009 09:52:02    485866

Black & White, while self-assessed people do not receive a tax credit they can claim relief on anything from a computer to shoe laces, including car, petrol, clothing etc and this can work out as very much better than an allowance as there is no end to it i am told. I would have no hesitation in reporting tax fraud as i have to pay everything. Thanks for the info regarding Limerick !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 17/11/2009 12:03:38    485967

Cavan_Slasher County: Cavan Posts: 3227 485967 Black & White, while self-assessed people do not receive a tax credit they can claim relief on anything from a computer to shoe laces, including car, petrol, clothing etc and this can work out as very much better than an allowance as there is no end to it i am told. I would have no hesitation in reporting tax fraud as i have to pay everything. Thanks for the info regarding Limerick !! What can be claimed is restricted to items that can be demonstrated to being "wholely and exclusively" for the purposes of their trade/profession. You list clothes as one of the items, but they are specifically not allowable based on case law (you need to wear clothes whether working or not, thus not "wholely and exclusively" used for the work. Similarly my mother is a GP, yet Revenue have determined that GP's are NOT entitled to claim captal allowances on their cars, as they also have them for personal use. How exactly Revenue expect out of hours emergency house calls to be made when GP don't need a car is beyond me, but thems the rules. Also, relief on business expenses are also available to PAYE workers, you just have to complete a return in January and apply for a rebate. Just like with self-employed people you have to be able to demonstrate that the expenditure was wholely and exclusively for the purposes of your work. The main reason that this relief tends not to be claimed is virtually all employees are re-imbursed for work expenditures by their employers.

black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 17/11/2009 13:52:04    486109

it'll save the government money this striking...

HokeyPokey (Tyrone) - Posts: 1744 - 17/11/2009 14:13:45    486144

I don't think any of you work as you are always on here.

Puddersthecat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1692 - 17/11/2009 14:49:54    486184

Puddersthecat
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 336

486184 I don't think any of you work as you are always on here.

The nature of my work means I have very busy spells and some (rare) quite spells. Thankfully I'm in the middle of a quiet week, but come next week it'll be a very different story. Budgeted to do 65 hours next week, and around 55 per week until xmas, so I might as well enjoy the opportunity for a bit of debate whilst I can!

black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 17/11/2009 15:13:13    486221

Puddersthecat, as with B & W i also work hours that suit my job, not me, though i am not entitled to unsocial hours as i signed up for it !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 17/11/2009 15:44:11    486267

black&white County: Sligo Posts: 588 _______________ Your points are accurate and in the main I agree. However Sligo must be a more honest neck of the woods than most. I once worked in the same game in the mid/Late 1990's and the following were not isolated 1. Undeclared cash sales and corresponding cash wages in the hospitality trade - Drink bought in NIRE and purchases not declared to ensure consistent margin 2. Undeclared Door income in niteclubs 3. Part cash payment in the construction sector 4. GP's declaring GMS income but only partially declaring private income 5. GP's/Dentists keeping diaries of prebooked appointments but accounting for walk in business off the books 5. Very low "birth yields" amongst cattle/Dairy farmers 6. Purchase of 4x4s as business vehicles 7. Establishment of companies with spouse as an employee so that every trip into town would attract mileage and lunch expense at approve revenue rates Plus obviously the legitimate tax schemes available to self employed- best example is - I have say a doctors surgery - I establish a company and the company owns the surgery. The doctor pays the company E50k per annum in rent. The company pays no tax as it has section 23 relief on other properties. The doctor receives a E50k expense against profits.

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 17/11/2009 16:17:56    486304

Plus obviously the legitimate tax schemes available to self employed- best example is - I have say a doctors surgery - I establish a company and the
company owns the surgery. The doctor pays the company E50k per annum in rent. The company pays no tax as it has section 23 relief on other properties.
The doctor receives a E50k expense against profits.

But then aren't allowed to touch the income paid to the company and have pay 41% income tax, plus levies etc if you ever actually take the money out of the company.

black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 17/11/2009 23:40:24    486874

rua The things you mentioned I saw none of in my time working in the small firm, but admittedly this was after the Revenue crack-downs had began, and the guy I was working for was whiter than white. As I said, anyone I dealt with seemed terrified of the consequences of getting on the wrong side of Revenue. It was around the time that Revenue were starting to investigate the Single-Premium Insurance Schemes. A client (a farmer) arrived in looking to declare that he had previously purchased such a product (for approx E10k) to avoid the taxes, and wanted to make a voluntary disclosure. The boss knew that Revenue were only investigating people with over E20k in these schemes, but under due to the legislation surrounding the Revenue investigations he would have been breaking the law to tell the client this, and the old man ended up paying about E5k in taxes and penalties. Sort of sums up how by-the-book the guy I worked for was... I no longer work in tax, so my experience was limited to the small practice above.

black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 17/11/2009 23:50:41    486881

17/11/2009 23:40:24 black&white County: Sligo Posts: 592 But then aren't allowed to touch the income paid to the company and have pay 41% income tax, plus levies etc if you ever actually take the money out of the company. __________________ Used to be Plenty ways around that too - One was Put the four teenage kids on the payroll - Pay them E12.5k each per annum. They dont pay too much tax on that - and you have E50k out of the business almost tax free to pay for their education

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 18/11/2009 16:36:34    487511

Rua

Revenue are well wise to the payroll trick I'm afraid. You get hit with an audit and they'll immediately look ask for work records. They'll check school records and will launch a case if the children are still in full time education.
I've also heard of one case where a family business was prosecuted for having an U-16 working above the maximum hours permited by legislation.

black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 18/11/2009 17:32:07    487598

rua

Think we're getting sidetracked here!

My original point was that conning the taxman is not something that every self-employed person does, despite slasher seeming to think that everyone is at it.
There are ways to do it, but they are nowhere near as common as they were 10 years ago, as due to Revenue clamp-downs you face a much higher probability of being caught.

black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 18/11/2009 17:37:02    487604

Black & White, i don't believe that the tax dodgers would be foolish enough to leave a little ginger-bread trail behind them and while i agree that they are not all at it i would say there is a fair proportion. Every tradesman i had dealings with in the last three years wanted cash and when i refused and paid by cheque they said they would not come back !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 18/11/2009 17:59:21    487630

People are saying the next Tuesday's strike will "affect HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of innocent people".

I thought you told me the public sector didn't do anything?

So which is it?

And I note the Allied Irish Bank officials are restricted to a mere 633,000 Euros a YEAR. How could ANYONE manage on that?

I think I will ask for a wage cut to ensure these unfortunate people get at least 700,000.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 19/11/2009 01:00:12    487958

Tax in the Republic of Ireland? Are youse joking?

The PD's collapsed because their main policy was less tax for the rich. The rich didn't pay any tax anyway.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 19/11/2009 01:05:11    487963

My best friend a teacher works 4 short days and 1 long day...his long day which he complains bitterly about is all of 4 hours long in all a total of 16 hours per week.

I'm sure there are many in the private sector who often work 16 hours a day.
As far as I'm concerned the teachers Trade Unions only pretend to have the interest of their pupils at heart when in reality they have no interest in anyone but their members....I should have said their PAID UP MEMBERS

chainsaw (Laois) - Posts: 712 - 19/11/2009 10:43:52    488098

19/11/2009 01:00:12 patrique County: Antrim Posts: 5489 487958 People are saying the next Tuesday's strike will "affect HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of innocent people". I thought you told me the public sector didn't do anything? So which is it? And I note the Allied Irish Bank officials are restricted to a mere 633,000 Euros a YEAR. How could ANYONE manage on that? ______________ Its about a 75% pay cut over 2 years - Maybe the public servants should do the same The CEO of a bank with a E100bn balance sheet gets E500k which is less than many RTE presenters. As slasher says (pay peanuts etc) Bod Diamond earns that a week

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 19/11/2009 11:04:19    488121