I hear there was a magazine in todays Independent regarding school/college football. It's something I've had many an argument over. First of all I'm all for National School football and Cumann na mBunscoil as I feel here is where kids make their first introduction into football depending on the local club of course. I feel that the childern learn to develope the basic skills of the game here and it can create an interest and hopefully relay these players to the club. However I don't hold second level football in as high a regard. By the age of 12/13 the basic skills are enstilled in each player and the fine tuning is done by the clubs or should be. I've seen in my day the GAA being abused by students in secondary schools. It was seen as getting two classes off every week for training and maybe a day off to travel 30/40 miles for a game. Especially in rural areas where the secondary school is based in the town, you have players who have no more interest in advancing the association and are not even members of their local club playing with the school team. How is this promoting our game? It's being exploited by students who have no more interest in the GAA or its aims. Secondly I place a lot of value on education as well as the GAA and I think when the game is being exploited as such it serves very little purpose. Then you have the die hard GAA lads who go out to training every week but are playing with dossers. These lads often end up losing out on education and can often get into bad habits. As much as I love the GAA, getting a proper education and a secure job is pinned slightly above playing in an often pointless competition. Unless the GAA start offering jobs to teenagers to play for their school my opinion will still stay the same on this. With the recession in full swing now schools are finding it ever tighter for funds. While I agree that it is essential to have extra-curricular activities I don't agree that there should be a thousand odd put aside for Gaelic when it might only serve 20/30% of the school. Certainly here in Sligo and Connacht the second level competitions are run appallingly. Games are never played on time if even played at all. Weather always has a bearing on whether a game is played or not. The standard of football is often poor also and they pair of teams in groups that got be anything up to 50-70 miles apart. All you have to do it look at the Connacht Council schools website to see how many games have been played and called of this year. There are certainly exceptions as some schools seem to be very successful in competitions but there is a major gap between the upper and lower tiers. School football also can aid to burn out. Take for example a 17 year old leaving cert student. He plays for his club minor and possibly u-20 and trains for his school once a week on top of it. Playing club football is a big committment and poses it's own burn out threats as it is. This student trains roughly an hour and a half each time. Thats four and a half hours and then maybe a game at the weekend and they're expected to do homework or study on top of it all. Unless there is a major overhawl of how the competitions are run I think the goal of school football is dead. And remember you go to school to be educated - Unfortunately hand passing and soloing does not come up on the Leaving Cert!!

datsrite (Sligo) - Posts: 473 - 12/11/2009 00:25:07    481803

datsrite datsrite.

fredrickwood (Roscommon) - Posts: 2871 - 12/11/2009 14:51:37    482177

Datsrite datswrong. Couldn't disagree with you more. Firstly your idea on education is very narrow. Schools provide for the academic, social, physical and cultural development of students. Secondly at the highest level, secondary school football provides a higher standard of football and skills development than is often found at club and county level. It can be harder to make the school under 19 team than your county minor team. Thirdly at the lower levels of secondary schools football it has provided an introduction to the sports in areas where Gaa is weak and provides competition levels at which any standard of team can compete, not something found in all club/county structures. On the burn out argument I find this tiring at times. Joint up thinking and a cooperative approach to coaching between club and school means each individual player can be trained to the highest and smartest level. The schools competitions take place from September to March so the overlap should be minimal.

getonwithit (Carlow) - Posts: 527 - 12/11/2009 18:18:12    482369

''less there is a major overhawl of how the competitions are run I think the goal of school football is dead. And remember you go to school to be educated - Unfortunately hand passing and soloing does not come up on the Leaving Cert!!''

Datsrite I disagree strongly with this.School football is far from dead.GAA Developing Officers are putting huge work into our schools and see it as the way forward.Also I feel when our games are under huge preasure from other codes it is a good way of promoting our games.If you read the magazine in the paper you would see top players and managers got out of school football and how important it was on their careers.Also their are a number of players that have proven that you can get a good education and play school football

SLIGO111 (Sligo) - Posts: 73 - 12/11/2009 19:24:08    482422

Any1 know what vec teams strong this year?? Monaghan very strong again!!

Lofty (Monaghan) - Posts: 727 - 12/11/2009 19:58:52    482451

Lofty
County: Monaghan
Posts: 383

482451
Any1 know what vec teams strong this year?? Monaghan very strong again!!

None they're generally far weaker than hogan cup teams etc.

beer baron (Cavan) - Posts: 3916 - 12/11/2009 20:07:21    482456

school football is definately a joke, at least round here. seen as a day off and an excuse not to do homework, no one cares about the football at all. six or seven lads turnin up for training at lunch time but thirty or so wanting to be on the panel to go to a game says it all.

meath11 (Meath) - Posts: 85 - 12/11/2009 20:50:34    482492

Sligo111: How is it the way forward? What do the players learn playing school football that they don't while playing for their clubs? Bar playing with different faces. I don't think Croke Park hold school football to high either or esle they'd ensure it was ran properly. As do the provinical councils.

datsrite (Sligo) - Posts: 473 - 12/11/2009 21:10:22    482509

Datsrite pay attention. Schools senior A is a higher level than County Minor. How can a lad or girl not improve by playing at the highest levels. Harder make a top school A team than a county minor panel. Croke Park regularly commends the work done in schools and the competitions are very well organised as anyone who has ever seen the handout sent out to each school at the start of the year would testify. Its a massive effort by Croke Park and officers at all levels. Perhaps you're removed from the scene?

getonwithit (Carlow) - Posts: 527 - 12/11/2009 21:18:00    482517

getonwitit: I'm certainly not removed from the scene. But you must remeber how many schools are A schools? Theres a serious overhawl needed for C,D competitions etc. B also could also do with a bit of a shake up. I can see whats happening here in Connacht with regards to schools football and as another post said it was similar in Meath. The competition seems to work for the elitist schools but sure thats the case with everything. Where is this document you speak of as I don't remember any teacher ever mentioning it in my day or present day. A quick search on the GAA website returned nine results when I typed in second level. And only one of them was relevant which was the STEP programme and it's aims in second level schools is to train teachers, referees and coaches through schools. I firmly believe the club is the centre of the GAA and where a player picks up his/her skills And in regards to girls football, I know of schools who only allow boys football and forget about the ladies. Not exactly fair is it. I'd also like to see stats for this year to see how many schools felt the bite of the recession.

datsrite (Sligo) - Posts: 473 - 12/11/2009 21:43:57    482536

Colleges GAA is certainly not a waste of time in Wexford anyway datsrite. There is a MASSIVE, sometimes bitter rivalry between St. Peters Wexford and Good Counsel New Ross. The standard is almost as high as county and gives players from clubs who might be weak to play at a much higher level. It doesn't lead to burnout as the competitions are played in the club off-season.

Playing for either Peters or Counsel is almost as good as playing for Wexford to young pupils, and the training done in these schools is of massive benefit to Wexford GAA. The Senior football team in particular is backboned by past pupils of these schools. Enniscorthy CBS have made massive strides in recent years to become an 'A' school, and there is great work done in Bunclody who have a smaller selection of players and play at a lower grade.

In camogie Coláiste Bríde's All Ireland's successes were a catalyst for the camogie girls All Ireland title in 2007.

Maybe ye just need to get ye're act together up there in Sligo, perhaps ye could follow Dublin's example and merge together some of your schools - it is being done elsewhere now too. I'm sure Dublin posters will tell you the benefits the "Dublin Colleges" amalgamation brought to Dublin hurling (now split into Dublin North and Dublin South).

Colleges GAA is certainly not a waste of time if taken seriously, and it is extremely beneficial to young players to play at that level.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 12/11/2009 23:16:51    482606

Getonwithit-- I agree 100% with you.You know what your talking about and you understand what school football is all about.

Datsrite-- nobody is saying that school football should be put before club.People who know what they are talking about eg 'Developing officers' say that school football is very important in developing players.Also schools football is not all about playing matches week in week out,it is about getting coaches out to schools during the 'winter peroid' and kept players active.But it is nice to play and win also!!!

SLIGO111 (Sligo) - Posts: 73 - 12/11/2009 23:20:41    482610

Datsrite. The lower level competitions provides an option for Gaa to students who may be from areas that do not have a Gaa tradition. This is especially true for girls. In Dublin they have E grade competitions I believe, so the competitions at all levels provide for people. Every school has been hit the recession. Leinster Colleges this year is straight knockout, the back door system has been removed to lessen burden of heading to too many matches. 26 schools in Leinster play A colleges, not sure how many play VEC A on top of that. With regards to the poster in Meath. of course there are places where the sport is not fully promoted. But Meath of all counties has benefitted hugely from Schools Gaa. Run through a mEath team sheet and try work out how many played with Pat's of Navan, standard bearers for a long time. Do the same thing with the Kilkenny team and St Kierans. The amazing thing in Kilkenny is that Kierans have never been under such pressure from other Kilkenny schools. The standard has raised as a result. Similarly in Wexford they benefit from schools comp. Wexford is viewed incorrectly as a hurling county when there is a thriving schools football scene down there which has feed into their recent success. Schools Gaa is crucial to the sport.

getonwithit (Carlow) - Posts: 527 - 13/11/2009 07:50:04    482716

Nocky there is nothing wrong with schools football in Sligo,in fact it is better than ever.I dont understand where Datsrite is coming from at all. In the last few years two sligo schools has got to All Ireland finals in grade 'B' and 'C'.Also Summerhill in Sligo are in the 'A' compition this year so from where I am standing there is nothing wrong with schools football here in Sligo.

SLIGO111 (Sligo) - Posts: 73 - 13/11/2009 18:56:09    483227

Meath11 i'm assuming you didn't/don't go St. Pats then. Getonwithit is spot on, out of the 15 that started against Kerry, 8 or 9 of them went to St. Pats as well as a couple of the subs where at least half of them won the colleges A All-Ireland. 4 finals since 2000, winning 3. Playing with your school, certainly in the case of Pats, means you're training with and competing against the best players from 6 or 7 clubs if not more, that can only assist in developing players. And I was there for the wins in 2000 and 2001, and for every player involved I can assure you it wasn't about just skipping classes, it was all about the football.

Bermuda_Bomber (Meath) - Posts: 101 - 13/11/2009 19:36:24    483259

I went to St. Mary's College, Galway, where sport was hugely important, particularly gaelic football and hurling. I was hugely committed to football, only missing a handful of training sessions in the 5 years, and it had no negative impact on my studies. The standard of play was very high, particularly in our many great battles with St. Jarlath's, Tuam. In first year I was coached by Bosco McDermott, and in second year by Liam Salmon, both Galway football legends, and they had a massive influence on me. I remember the thrill of playing Jarlath's in the first year Connacht final in front of busloads of students from both schools - to us it felt like playing in all-Ireland. Two of our best players came from areas that had no local gaelic football club and they had never played a regular game before coming to Mary's. I have nothing but fond memories of my days playing colleges football and I know most of my former team-mates would say the same.

Gaillimh_Abu (Galway) - Posts: 1033 - 16/11/2009 02:15:13    484672

a school in clifden west connemara has got gaa in there school for the first time in 25 years, Senior boys and girls teams. its was the students that wanted to play GAA football in the school. Before if they wanted to play a sport in the school , they had only two choices. Soccer or rugby. the choices where down to what the teachers wanted, and not the students, The students, parents and local clubs have worked hard to get GAA into the school. the local cluds have given money and got sponderships for the school teams. The training is after school, at local gaa pitch, have to work around the other sport fixtures and not allow to have the same pool of players. The clubs have agreed that if students are at school training session , then that all they have to attend. This is a small rural school but 36 lads and 38 girls sign up for those teams. Its was freedom of choice, to choice something that is part of your hertiage and your culture and you can give something back to your school community. The students will learn what it is like to become part of a school team. Gaa is such a big part of the irish History these games have been past down to our sons and daughters , and they should play them in there school community.

galwaybobby1 (Galway) - Posts: 24 - 17/11/2009 00:15:11    485768

''The education of a nation shoul be be boyh mental and physical'' Michael Cusack

JoeHaugh (Clare) - Posts: 8 - 17/11/2009 15:24:54    486233

Right there's a host of comments up since I was last up which is great. I'll address each individually. Getonwithit: You say that schools A is better than Minor A. Are you suggesting that we should take the focus away from the club and centre it on schools? If so I think you're mad. The GAA was founded on club basis and will hold the club at its core. And how is it harder to make a School A team than a County team. Perhaps it is in Carlow where both are a rarity indeed. Unless the school has over 800 boys who go out training and compete for fifteen spots which is impossible County Football is still the highest grade. Also someone mentioned merging up schools to form teams. This is impossible in most rural areas as schools are located in towns that can be anything from ten to twenty miles apart. With a few exceptions in larger areas. Now try organising that for football!! Besides if it did make geographical sense you'd be going down the same road as the VEC teams almost so the present format would be a waste of time. 135 out of 292 scheduled games so far in Connacht schools competitions have been played. These are games that were due to have been played by now. That's a completion rate of 46%. Now try and convince some one that this competition does not need revamping!! Sligo111 you say that football in doing well in Sligo. Take these facts. This year Ballisodare have played two games in Connacht competitions out of fifteen, Coola Post Primary no games in Connacht competitions, Ballymote same as Coola, Tubbercurry (who play B) 7 out of 13, Summerhill (A) 13 out of 17. So I think you can see a pattern here. That schools who enter A and B competitions are the only one benefiting. While these are only Connacht competitions, the county board organised three blitzes and that's it. So tell me that schools football is being run in Sligo. The way I see it is, teams are out training for nothing because simply they have no games!! In fact all its doing is eating up the schools budgets, letting the students go off on the doss and keeping a coach in a job. Unless there is a major overhaul in how Colleges/schools GAA is run it's a meaningless exercise. And getonwithit again, you say that lower grade football is provided for places with little tradition in the game. Remind me again where has more tradition in the game Sligo, Leitrim, Roscommon, Mayo, Galway or Carlow??? And Joe from Clare while that is true, note how he put mental before physical. Schools were built to educate first not to train for football. I'm not saying that the GAA should pull plant on the whole lot but certainly they need to re organise it.

datsrite (Sligo) - Posts: 473 - 17/11/2009 20:16:41    486613

There are lads who play for small clubs , maybe playing in division 3 or 4 of their grade.If a player in that club goes to a college playing A football his chances of improving as a player are considerable.The standard of teams he will play against and the opposition he will face in order to make the starting 15 will benefit him greatly when he goes back to play for the club.

AdamG (Mayo) - Posts: 309 - 17/11/2009 21:46:52    486726