Fredrick, are you going to watch the match on Wednesday?

Puddersthecat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1692 - 12/11/2009 22:46:51    482578

after duff, mcgeady, a. reid, keane, ireland (the traitor) miller is our best player. showed the last day he was the only player able to pick out a pass. and he done it a few times. far better than the other rubbish like whelan etc. in midfield. technically a far superior player. apart from reid and s. ireland, he's irelands only player that could split a defence with a killer pass

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4202 - 12/11/2009 23:11:40    482601

12/11/2009 23:11:40
32_4_1
County: Meath
Posts: 1263

482601
after duff, mcgeady, a. reid, keane, ireland (the traitor) miller is our best player. showed the last day he was the only player able to pick out a pass. and he done it a few times. far better than the other rubbish like whelan etc. in midfield. technically a far superior player. apart from reid and s. ireland, he's irelands only player that could split a defence with a killer pass
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Come on Lorcan, you can't be serious this time surely! Liam Miller better than Shay Given, John O'Shea, Richard Dunne, Kevin Doyle, Steven Reid, etc., etc.? I could name 20 Irish players better than Miller! If he is such a fantastic player why was he without a club for so long? Surely a mid-to-lower half Premiership team would have snapped him up when he was available on a free?

vs. Montenegro he played one excellent pass but did absolutely nothing apart from that. He looked promising at Celtic, but his career has really gone downhill since then.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 12/11/2009 23:53:03    482640

check this out

http://www.redcafe.net/redirect-to/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Firishsoccerinsider.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F11%2F11%2Ffrench-and-irish-fall-out-over-box-incident%2F

funny f true...........


or maybe not true

kerryeye (Kerry) - Posts: 76 - 13/11/2009 03:01:35    482681

nocky,if you read my post you would get the message we are in the play off's


still not learn your English I see

Duffy89 (Wexford) - Posts: 3320 - 13/11/2009 04:30:18    482696

i meant more midfielders and attack. for what dunne, o'shea and given do (defend) they are better obviously. apart from them 8 or so who actually is better than miller. when he began his career he was hyped up too much and when he didnt deliver huge performances he was seen as a flop. i think he's better than the likes of andrews, whelan etc. and he can defiantly pick out a pass. something our midfield isnt doing without reid and ireland. so he's be handy to have in there

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4202 - 13/11/2009 09:58:55    482745

13/11/2009 04:30:18
Duffy89
County: Wexford
Posts: 1951

482696
nocky,if you read my post you would get the message we are in the play off's....................What's your point Duffy? Did you read my post? Care to comment on any of the issues I raised in it?
_________________________

still not learn your English I see....................A bit ironic that you should be criticising my command of the English language with a sentence that is grammatically incorrect.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 13/11/2009 12:38:18    482872

13/11/2009 09:58:55
32_4_1
County: Meath
Posts: 1264

482745
i meant more midfielders and attack. for what dunne, o'shea and given do (defend) they are better obviously. apart from them 8 or so who actually is better than miller. when he began his career he was hyped up too much and when he didnt deliver huge performances he was seen as a flop. i think he's better than the likes of andrews, whelan etc. and he can defiantly pick out a pass. something our midfield isnt doing without reid and ireland. so he's be handy to have in there
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Did you watch the Montenegro game Lorcan? Miller did absolutely NOTHING apart from playing one pass in the first half. If he's not capable of splitting Montenegro's defence more than once in 90mins, then he's not much use. In your original post you claimed he was "our best player" after "duff, mcgeady, a. reid, keane, ireland", nothing about attack and midfield only here. You have backtracked from that assertion in the above post, but you are still way wrong.

Andrews and Whelan, although I am not a huge fan of either, are better players than Miller. They are regulars in the Premiership, something Miller never was. Darron Gibson was given a new contract by Ferguson while Miller was released, so therefore he must be a better player. Lee Carsley, Steven Reid and arguably Keith Fahey are better midfielders than Miller. Stephen Hunt and Liam Lawrence are another two midfielders who play regularly in the Premiership, so are better than Miller. Kevin Doyle, recently transferred to Wolves for £6M is a better player.

You are right about one thing - he was overhyped after a few good performances for Celtic, his career has been on a downward spiral since he left.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 13/11/2009 13:07:30    482909

Rory Delap for Ireland. Yes I'm serious - worth a place on squad. Easily as good (while thats not very good) as some of our other midfielders and his long throws add another string to our bow if necessary. Would rate him higher than others in the squad.

the.pundit (Galway) - Posts: 258 - 13/11/2009 15:02:57    483037

13/11/2009 15:02:57
the.pundit
County: Galway
Posts: 210

483037
Rory Delap for Ireland. Yes I'm serious - worth a place on squad. Easily as good (while thats not very good) as some of our other midfielders and his long throws add another string to our bow if necessary. Would rate him higher than others in the squad.
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Completely agree pundit, Delap should be an option off the bench for his long throws (a Plan B). I must admit I'd forgoten completely about him, another example of Trap's selection blindspots. Delap is a far more important player for Stoke (started every PL game this season) than Liam Lawrence (who has only started 4 PL games, none since September). But it's Lawrence who's going to start the most important game in Irish soccer for 7years on Saturday. Ridiculous.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 13/11/2009 15:18:49    483053

Nocky, you're not showing Montenegro the appropriate respect. THey were only bottom seeds as they are a brand new member of UEFA. THey are by far the best of the bottom seeds. THey have a number of players who would go straight into our team. You seem to be equating them with Andorra or Liechstenstein or someone, who we always have trouble with anyway so the 0-0 draw away was decent and the nil-nil draw at home was utterly irrelevant. At the start of the group ours was considered to be one of the toughest. When we go through unbeaten it suddenly becomes a poor group. Hindsight is only forsight for Gob******. Ps Rory Delap has been ignored by a number of Irish managers - I'd say there's some issue there - so no need to add that to your trap-hating bow.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12484 - 13/11/2009 15:36:31    483073

Andy Reid and Stephen Ireland would be some help in the team now. .

allstar4 (Donegal) - Posts: 558 - 13/11/2009 16:09:11    483104

he done a lot more than one pass. he was very impressive. montenegro are a quality team on the up. as someone said they are only coming out of thier split with serbia. hard team to beat

argue all you want. he's the only one capable of passing and dictating the game in midfield on form apart from reid and ireland. if he gets a good run in the team he could be a very useful player for ireland. and hibs are regularly beating and holding ranger and celtic in scotland. wouldnt be surprised if they get a top 2 position in the next few years. and whos centre of their midfield?

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4202 - 13/11/2009 16:46:34    483141

13/11/2009 15:36:31
Breffni39
County: Cavan
Posts: 1411

483073
Nocky, you're not showing Montenegro the appropriate respect. THey were only bottom seeds as they are a brand new member of UEFA. THey are by far the best of the bottom seeds. THey have a number of players who would go straight into our team. You seem to be equating them with Andorra or Liechstenstein or someone, who we always have trouble with anyway so the 0-0 draw away was decent and the nil-nil draw at home was utterly irrelevant. At the start of the group ours was considered to be one of the toughest. When we go through unbeaten it suddenly becomes a poor group. Hindsight is only forsight for Gob******.

Ps Rory Delap has been ignored by a number of Irish managers - I'd say there's some issue there - so no need to add that to your trap-hating bow.
__________________

I'm well aware that Montenegro were only bottom seeds due to their recent independence/split from Serbia Breffni. I agree completely that they were the best bottom seeds in the draw. But they are hardly world beaters, they will maybe be 4th seeds in years to come, anything above that and they would be massively overachieving. They are a tiny nation and we should be well capable of beating them, or at least scoring a goal against them in 180mins!

When we played them in Dublin they were missing at least two of their star players, you say the 0-0 draw was irrelevant, well would it have been irrelevant had the referee not incorrectly decided not to award them a penalty? This would have ended Ireland's Magnificent Unbeaten Record which so many use as a way to justify Trap's ridiculous selection decisions.

At the outset of the qualifying campaign many people massively overrated Bulgaria, thus labelling our group "difficult". Bulgaria were rubbish, we had an easy group, we had the second lowest points total of any second placed team.

On Rory Delap, it is only in the last two years that he has re-emerged as a valuable PL player, his exclusion from previous squads was understandable. His long throws could be another option for us to have off the bench, and as I previously said he has started every PL game for Stoke, while Lawrence has just 4 PL starts this year.

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 13/11/2009 17:20:51    483165

Nocky/32-4-1 there is validity in both your arguments. Miller is not as poor as Nocky would suggest and neither is he as good as 32-4-1 suggests. I do believe that he has good ability and would not generaly agree with Nocky's assertion that because some of the squad are in the premier league that they are better footballers. Miller did ok against Montenegro, however I think that he could have pushed himself a wee bit more in a game that was there to be taken by the scruff. The team as a whole did not perform and I think that he struggled with the mantke of trying to continually force the issue himself. In relation to our central midfiel options I honestly believe that he is as good as whats there. Despite steady performances, Andrews and Whelan cannot release our wingers or frontmen quick enough as they generally look to play sideways and backwards first. There is nothing wrong with that if you have a man in there who will release a quick ball but we don't, therefore teams, especially good teams have the ability to funnel back quicker than we can get the ball forward hence the reason we give the ball away so much. Unfortunately, although I can see us getting a draw on Saturday night I do not think that we will score in either leg so unless we force penalties we are in trouble. Hope against hope all the same

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 13/11/2009 18:07:22    483193

13/11/2009 18:07:22 omaghredhand County: Tyrone Posts: 828 483193 Nocky/32-4-1 there is validity in both your arguments. Miller is not as poor as Nocky would suggest and neither is he as good as 32-4-1 suggests. I do believe that he has good ability and would not generaly agree with Nocky's assertion that because some of the squad are in the premier league that they are better footballers. Miller did ok against Montenegro, however I think that he could have pushed himself a wee bit more in a game that was there to be taken by the scruff. The team as a whole did not perform and I think that he struggled with the mantke of trying to continually force the issue himself. In relation to our central midfiel options I honestly believe that he is as good as whats there. Despite steady performances, Andrews and Whelan cannot release our wingers or frontmen quick enough as they generally look to play sideways and backwards first. There is nothing wrong with that if you have a man in there who will release a quick ball but we don't, therefore teams, especially good teams have the ability to funnel back quicker than we can get the ball forward hence the reason we give the ball away so much. Unfortunately, although I can see us getting a draw on Saturday night I do not think that we will score in either leg so unless we force penalties we are in trouble. Hope against hope all the same __________ Good post omaghredhand, I will admit I was exaggerating just a small bit in my assessment of our midfield options, but it was in response to Lorcan's exaggeration of Liam Miller's ability/performance vs. Montenegro. He is essentially a similar player to the Reid brothers, Steven and Andy (when he is played in centre-mid), although he is as good as neither. Wouldn't have a huge problem with him being in the squad, but no way should he be there ahead of Andy Reid. And since he was never going to start, Steven Reid may have been a better option off the bench, even with his lack of recent match practice. Trap's failure to call up any replacement to the squad is a joke and makes a mockery of the original selection - why call up so many players if you're not going to use them anyway? What you say is correct, we have a complete lack of creativity in our midfield, and the only way we I can see us scoring is if we get lucky from a set piece. But as you say, hope for the best...

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 13/11/2009 18:32:14    483217

dhorse
County: Laois
Posts: 3973

482408 fredrickwood
County: Roscommon
Posts: 1366

482084 nacellabeaga
County: Offaly
Posts: 98

482031 Fredrick

I'd really like to see you do better.

???

And it's Fred Rickwood not Fredrick.GOOD LAD

You are a bit touchy today

I know but ive cheered up immensely now it's friday :)))
I'd nearly laugh at some of your great jokes Ive cheered up that much!

fredrickwood (Roscommon) - Posts: 2871 - 13/11/2009 18:32:56    483218

I'll be honest with you nocky,I didn't read your post,because the fact of the matter is Ireland are one of the only team's to get through the qualifying campaign without getting beat once since Trappatoni took over we've only been beaten twice,vs Australia which was a friendly and also against Poland which also was a friendly.Trappatoni has proved that Ireland don't need Ireland nor Reid,we've came out of game's vs Italy & Bulgaria without getting beat,we wen't back to Valletta with a result,we got out of the cauldron of a stadium in Montenegro with a result also,so what's the point in moaning about who play's or doesn't,we have a genius of a manager in Trappatoni who obviously know's what he's doing,fair enough I will admit that it's not pretty to watch but we're still very much unbeaten !

Duffy89 (Wexford) - Posts: 3320 - 13/11/2009 19:07:59    483236

13/11/2009 19:07:59
Duffy89
County: Wexford
Posts: 1960

483236
I'll be honest with you nocky,I didn't read your post,because the fact of the matter is Ireland are one of the only team's to get through the qualifying campaign without getting beat once since Trappatoni took over we've only been beaten twice,vs Australia which was a friendly and also against Poland which also was a friendly.Trappatoni has proved that Ireland don't need Ireland nor Reid,we've came out of game's vs Italy & Bulgaria without getting beat,we wen't back to Valletta with a result,we got out of the cauldron of a stadium in Montenegro with a result also,so what's the point in moaning about who play's or doesn't,we have a genius of a manager in Trappatoni who obviously know's what he's doing,fair enough I will admit that it's not pretty to watch but we're still very much unbeaten !
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Duffy, what are you doing on this forum if you aren't going to read opinions other than your own? Trappatoni certainly hasn't proved we don't need Andy Reid (I haven't mentioned Stephen Ireland once). Montenegro a "cauldron", haha, good one. Valetta is the capital of Malta, not sure what you're on about there... Go back and actually read my post and you will see plenty of Trap's failings.

You were having a go about my literacy there on another post, a bit ironic coming from someone who cannot correctly use apostraphes or even the Space Bar!

nocky (Wexford) - Posts: 2059 - 13/11/2009 20:25:38    483314

i never said miller was as good as andy or stephan reid. but since both of them are out miller was our only other potenially creative midfielder. now he's out. so we dont have one player left who can actually give a pass. we're really going to half to rely on our wings and hope our strikers do something magic

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4202 - 13/11/2009 21:02:04    483334