agree with the minor thing, i suggested that origonally with underage comps. The leinster lge was given a good bash by bkillen and mlr anyhow that i know directly. Cant comment on the other clubs as cant rem results off hand. The junior a thing, well i can only speak for my own club, in that we would love to compete at a higher level but we had problems with the county players being unavailable, 4 in our case, the start co inciding with college exams, i know kk lads do them too! Also as a lot of the games were wknd based we were clashing with fball lge games here. The kk county board were not too flexible with us in refixing them, in fairness i know the have their own logistics to work out. This hampered us with the team we were able to fiels in these. We had bare 15s for games, with some lads playing 3 games a wknd. Dont get me wrong, we really enjoyed different teams to play and its a great idea, but its a difficult one to get the balance rite.

old yellar (None) - Posts: 2631 - 03/11/2009 17:52:33    474269

solo County:Kilkenny Posts:303 I agree with a lot of points you have made. We should be targeting 2 wins in the championship. I think we would be satisfied with being in the top 3 or 4 in the league and avoiding relegation in the Liam McCarthy. Moral victories are know good to us. If you lose by 20 points or 1 point, you still lost. As for Rangers being cocky that they will win Leinster I haven't a clue where you got that out of. A team that is cocky don't win 3 Senior Championships and a couple of Kilkenny leagues in 4 years by being over confident. That is a shocking thing for a Kilkenny person to say. I don't think Freshford will win Leinster, Celbridge and Rangers I think have the beating of them. Freshford shouldn't have won Kilkenny in my opinion. Dicksboro and the Rower are better than them, but fair play to them they won it. Bowsey, go back to "your own county" website. You are ment to be a Laois man let your county name says Carlow. Best of luck to Rangers against Celbridge and Rathvilly against Clara.

hurlingguru (Carlow) - Posts: 1847 - 03/11/2009 19:44:31    474372

old yeller i know what you are saying about not having the players for KK league games with county players and so on. We had this problem this year with a large contingent involved with the hurling and football county teams. We did field however and as a result both Richard Kelly, Gary Kelly andKarl Lawlor staked a claim for places that they subsequently never lost. Without competing in the Kilkenny league and the Leinster league these players would still be playing intermediate hurling this year and the hurlers that were there would still be hurling as they didnt do anything wrong.
You might be surprised what comes from players when they are exposed to a high level of hurling. I certainly was when i saw the progress that these lads made from these games. The Kilkenny league is brilliant for that and the leinster league was fantastic for our lads. I still say though that hurling with your county makes all the difference. It really brings on the lads hurling. This can be seen when St. Mullins and Naomh Eoin were dominating Carlow they always had big numbers hurling on the county team.
Good to be talking about positive things for a change.

aragorn1 (Carlow) - Posts: 156 - 03/11/2009 23:38:14    474557

bowsey... where are those results i asked you for? Do not cast throw away remarks when you cannot back up your point with relevant facts, in this case results of Carlow teams in Leinster championship games. Agree with old yellar, that we have lost and gained a few players born in and outside the county boundary. And yes the vast vast majority of real gaa people move on and accept those things.Most genuine gaa people are interested in the development of the games, and are not interested in the pure pettiness of some personal rivalries that are the result of a belt or a look from a player at some stage in a players life. A few posters are a little too subjective in their comments and are not looking at the broader picture. Yes MLR are successful in Carlow in recent years and yes they are seeking a long campaign in Leinster. Are'nt they right! Sure any club worth their salt would be forward looking and confidence is a good thing. Perhaps some might interpret this as cockiness and by God don't the Irish look to knock those who have a legitimate claim to confidence! I and most Carlow people and gaa people in general, admire a club that has put in hard work, that has trained over many years , that has entered tournaments up and down the country and has competed in Kilkenny leagues and done well. Fair play to them and continued success as well as their neighbours, Skeough boys who have won their Kilkenny championship and beat the Louth champions last weekend. Is'nt it great that 2 clubs living close together can achieve so much! Rangers have now set the standard for all the rest of the Carlow clubs to follow and to match up to. This has been achieved through a combination of dedicated mentors, a good school system in the area, good team managers, good support for players, a commitment to the county teams plus the hop of the ball the odd time, in other words, hard work. For the future, perhaps a county colleges team can improve standards, perhaps, more involvement in Kilkenny style leagues, perhaps more emphasis on junior, minor, under 21 and senior hurling games outside the present championship will work to improve things. There is no single winning formula, for all in Carlow its called hard work. I do not think that we in Carlow are living in the dark ages regarding standards, but we have made progress and there is still a long way to go. We can be negative and indulge in petty club rivalries or we can sit down and work all the harder to ensure more enjoyment through improving the standards. Carlow people involved in hurling are realistic and the last thing we need or are good at is slagging those who are making the effort.

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1879 - 04/11/2009 00:19:15    474572

My arguement is that the Junior A league in Kilkenny is too low a grade to play in. After all it is a second team competition with either guys who are too young or too old to play on the first teams, or lads who missed a years hurling through travelling or injuries.
Brings back to the moral victory thing again. ye shouldn't settle for playing teams second teams. PLay their first teams and develop that way.

solo (Kilkenny) - Posts: 314 - 04/11/2009 09:45:16    474648

Solo, Rangers would be delighted to compete in a higher competition in Kilkenny if it was available to us. The fact is that the only competition we are allowed to compete in the The Junior League. As far as i know, and more knowlegeable people will correct me if i am wrong, the reason Kilkenny wont let us compete in the Intermediate league is that positions in this league contribute in some way to placings in their championship. Rangers have asked for the past couple of years to go to the next level in Kilkenny and were turned down.
When we started hurling in the KK league we got a right few beatings until we got used to the type of hurling up there. We would also accept beatings at the next level if it would bring on our hurling. I think the points made about teams in KK not having full teams or playing second tier players in the league is correct to some degree. The same however can be said of our team. At times we struggled to get 15 players with 9-10 players that would start on our hurling team tied up with the county. This can be a challenge but as i have pointed out to old yellar also an oppurtunity for young lads who are not getting a run on the senior team to stake a claim.
Just as an aside we could do worse than listen to old yellar's points as usually they are constructive and well made. At least he is positive and forward looking in his views which is refreshing.

aragorn1 (Carlow) - Posts: 156 - 04/11/2009 11:19:36    474721

I am not talking about the Rangers when I talk about playing at a higher lever in KK because as you rightly pointed out, the league placings have a bearing on who meets who in the Championship. I would suggest however that ye try to get into the Byrne and Aylward cups. These competitions are run specifically for club players who are not on county teams and both competitions are run with a mixture of senior and intermediate teams based on location - I think the Byrne cup is for Northern Intermediate and Senior and Aylward cup is for southern.
These fixtures are not really taken too seriously because teams rarely have full squads due to county or holidays but are competitive nonetheless as they are derby games mostly.

I would suggest that Carlow senior clubs try to enter these and even if they had to play all games away it would be worth their while as it would give them the opportunity to step up a grade. Couldn't see why the KK board would refuse it as the last 2 years a lot of teams have given walkovers as teams are drawn against the same ones they meet in the Championship proper. It would be a way of refreshing the two cups and give teams chances to play someone different

solo (Kilkenny) - Posts: 314 - 04/11/2009 12:06:21    474758

Solo sounds like a great idea. I have no idea why the Rangers dont try and enter these competitions. Any time you get an oppurtunity to play different teams you should take it. The big problem as i see it with Carlow hurling is you are hurling the same teams year in and year out and in most cases the same player and this leads to predicability and staleness.

aragorn1 (Carlow) - Posts: 156 - 04/11/2009 12:34:26    474788

This is an interesting thread. (apart from the odd shot). Solo I agree with your ideas on the Byrne - Aylward cups, think it has merit. I don't agree with your assesment of JUnior A in Kilkenny. The majority of teams in that competition are the top team of those given clubs. How many second teams are involved compared to first teams? I am open to correction though, as I don't have exact figures in front of me! I also would find it hard to believe that the MLR players themselves are shouting around that they are sure things in Leinster. Big difference between players and supporters on a barstool, so be careful not to brand the whole outfit.

getonwithit (Carlow) - Posts: 527 - 04/11/2009 12:39:50    474797

getonwithit I think you may be mixing up Junior And Junior A. Junior A is all second teams. Junior has a good proportion of 1st teams in it

solo (Kilkenny) - Posts: 314 - 04/11/2009 12:57:36    474818

I stand corrected so solo!

getonwithit (Carlow) - Posts: 527 - 04/11/2009 13:35:52    474858

just to clarify things, we really enjoyed and benefitted playing in the kk and leinster lge. i just pointing out the few problems we had. some great games, but when we tight with numbers we hadnt other lads willing to step in and stake a claim for a place.. then maybe our panel was small, for instance for some 2 of our championshipgames we had just 2 subs, 1 16, 1 17 yr old.... but that just our club! so apart from the senior thing which has provoked great debate, the colleges thing which was another thread, where else do we need to look at?

old yellar (None) - Posts: 2631 - 04/11/2009 13:39:35    474865

I had presumed you meant Junior when you said Junior A.

getonwithit (Carlow) - Posts: 527 - 04/11/2009 13:46:35    474872

Perhaps I'm stating the obvious but whatever about the club and county structures we have already, which I must say from a first hand view are doing great work, hurling must get a foothold in the north of the county. And now is the time especially with football being at such a low ebb. County board must get coaches into Tinryland, Bennekerry, Rathvilly etc. I am of the firm belief that no matter where you're from, if a hurl is put into the hand of most youngsters who have the slightest grá for sport, he or she will find it hard to put down for years to come, especially if their club makes an adequate effort in promoting the game.
However that is a big 'if' in the north of the county as we well know, but the question must be asked, how many of all of these football only clubs, north of Naomh Bríd's catchment area say, have a realistic chance of winning a senior football championship in the next 5 years? Offhand I say Rathvilly, Éire Óg, Tinryland, Blues and Pal, all of whom already provide hurlers to carlow town of course. So why not get hurling into places around tullow to build on their success this year and also Hacketstown as it would also give a new impetus to parishes badly bereft of success for several years now.

Kildavin Clonegal also has screaming potential with their proximity to Wexford and Carlow's hurling Heartland.

Scanny (Carlow) - Posts: 6 - 06/11/2009 01:58:46    476810

just thinking about football in kilkenny, and normally how lads laugh at it, think it a joke. maybe the dont take it serious, but virtually all hurling clubs field a team in some grade, sometimes even if it only 13 aside in a lge/champ. i know its not given any great suss but its still played off. here we have (in no particular order) Eire og with 3 adult teams, Rathvilly with at 2, pal with 2, blues with 2, asca, fighting cocks with 2, clonmore with 2, kildavin with 2, kilbride with 2, ballon, and do we have many hurlers outta them? a few.. maybe we should force these to field a hurling team even with 13 players, to play in junior or intermediate.. will it happen, doubt it..

old yellar (None) - Posts: 2631 - 09/11/2009 20:22:49    479720

why dont kildavin/clonegal field a hurling team at any adult grade anymore? i remember when i played under-age they were always strong & as far as i know they won an intermediate title not that long ago however i remember them not fielding a team the following year in the senior, from what i remember the thinking behind that was they thought they would not be good enough for senior. its a real shame as they should be very goog being that close to wexford. Also i recall a few years ago st fintans were looking to set up a junior team again but were refused by co. board which i cant understand as the more teams the better as we a small county. anyway just a few thoughts....

carlo (Carlow) - Posts: 265 - 09/11/2009 23:59:30    479931

b

carlo (Carlow) - Posts: 265 - 10/11/2009 00:32:20    479947

just wondering why kildavin/clonegal dont field an adult hurling team in any grade anymore , i remember playing them under/age years ago @ they were always very strong. Correct me if im wrong but did they not win an intermediate hurling a few years ago but i dont think they played senior the following year as the thinking was that they were not strong enough for senior. This seems strange to me with them being so close to wexford they should be a force but i suppose all their efforts were being put into the football where they nearly won a c/ship a couple of years ago. Another thought on development of carlow hurling, im nearly sure that a few years ago St Fintans were looking to reform a junior team but co. board wouldnt allow it which is strange because in a small county the more teams playing hurling the better for everyone. anyway Ceatherlach abu

carlo (Carlow) - Posts: 265 - 10/11/2009 15:04:21    480342

palatine have an intermediete team lads!

carlowstar (Carlow) - Posts: 234 - 10/11/2009 16:07:10    480399

yeah, shud have put my point better. Meant as i said at the end, that we not getting enough outta those clubs as a whole.. Ballon also have 2 teams if i think right? Ah ye get the idea!

old yellar (None) - Posts: 2631 - 10/11/2009 17:37:03    480488