bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 1708

Give it a rest will you....

tomaoo7 (Dublin) - Posts: 5896 - 09/11/2009 22:40:57    479841

a good article in the paper today stated that either all clubs or none participate in the rememberance day, this coming from the two biggest clubs in the premiership utd an liverpool not wearing poopies on there shirts! i have no opposition to salutingww1 and ww11 heros but half the wars after this are unjustified!!

dj27legend (Down) - Posts: 641 - 09/11/2009 22:43:22    479848

Real Kerry Fan
County: All
Posts: 1753

479837 I think they have gone overboard with this poppy, british army celebrations in recent years. A celebration of peace would be more appropriate. Celebrating death is nothing to be proud of.

is it not armstice day? the end of the war.

it would'nt leave us with much to celebrate in ireland if death was the issue, 1916, good friday, bodenstown, the soldiers song, ya need blood and guts to unite people, otherwise they start to think for themselves

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 09/11/2009 22:49:09    479854

it would'nt leave us with much to celebrate in ireland if death was the issue, 1916, good friday, bodenstown, the soldiers song, ya need blood and guts to unite people, otherwise they start to think for themselves
dhorse
County: Laois
Posts: 3903

I know but we dont parade them at every sporting occasion which seems to be the present form across the water. I lived in England for a good few years in the late sixties and early seventies and the poppy,world wars etc were remembered in dignity.Never did I see a sporting occasion used for war purposes. Now they are parading the soldiers who are in Afghanistan,Iraq etc using the poppy etc as part of their cause also. Stick to Comemerations but keep it out of sports fields.

Real Kerry Fan (None) - Posts: 2957 - 09/11/2009 23:10:13    479883

Twas surprised to see Michael Ballack wear the poppy to be honest with you's,i'm sure they have a different thing for commemorating 11/11 in Deutshland

Duffy89 (Wexford) - Posts: 3320 - 09/11/2009 23:16:27    479894

Real Kerry Fan
County: All
Posts: 1755

479883 it would'nt leave us with much to celebrate in ireland if death was the issue, 1916, good friday, bodenstown, the soldiers song, ya need blood and guts to unite people, otherwise they start to think for themselves
dhorse
County: Laois
Posts: 3903

I know but we dont parade them at every sporting occasion which seems to be the present form across the water. I lived in England for a good few years in the late sixties and early seventies and the poppy,world wars etc were remembered in dignity.Never did I see a sporting occasion used for war purposes. Now they are parading the soldiers who are in Afghanistan,Iraq etc using the poppy etc as part of their cause also. Stick to Comemerations but keep it out of sports fields.

Do you happen to think part of this nead for the parade of war "heroes" is to try and get a bit of the young generations focus away from the so called "heroes" of Drogba, Neville and Lucas, and onto those who, albeit rightly or wrongly are risking their lives for far less of a reward?

Perhaps the powers that be are trying subconsciously to gain support for the war effort by the transfer of support for those on the pitch onto those in mountains and deserts of Iraq?

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3691 - 09/11/2009 23:24:06    479900

RKF, its a psychological thing !! Its used to stop people complaining about the war in Afghanistan and Iraq where many soldiers are losing their lives. Highlighting the poppy is designed to prevent people being outspoken against these wars. The tide will change as the deaths increase !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 09/11/2009 23:24:56    479902

If in doubt & Cavan Slasher are of course 100% correct, poppy day is being utilised by the authorities to try and win public support for the security forces in general and to boost public opinion for operations whether in the 6 Counties, Iraq or Afghanistan. Another important issue is that Football players are covered by the same EU legislation as any other European Worker. Germans, Irish and Muslim players have been obliged to wear the poppy and participate in the minutes silence whether they wanted to or not. If say the German authorities decided to honour their war dead in a similar manner can you imagine the response of the Sun to British workers in Germany being forced to wear a German symbol and stand for a minutes silence. The odds are that if someone challenged what the British Sporting Bodies are doing at EU level they would be found to be breaching workers rights. Of course it is perfectly correct that they should remember their war dead but it should be kept to seperate ceremonies where people have the free will to either attend or not attend as they wish.

corkcelt (Cork) - Posts: 4388 - 10/11/2009 09:25:45    479998

So britain shouldnt remember their war dead because it might offend foreigners in britain? If people travel to or live and work in a country they should respect its traditions. Similar to anzac day in australia or veterans day in britain. perhaps amhran na bhfiann should not be played before GAA matches as it may offend british people living in ireland? Also Germany has a rememberance day, Volkstrauertag. It is widely respected by all. I dont know what 'The Sun' makes of it but its good to know where you get your sense of righteousness from.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4653 - 10/11/2009 10:15:16    480033

bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 1712

Amhran na bFhiann is our National Anthem. Like every country in the world national anthems are played at sporting fixtures. It is different when you have soldiers and guns paraded at matches.

Real Kerry Fan (None) - Posts: 2957 - 10/11/2009 11:48:41    480117

RKF - They do the same all over the world - American Football games regularly have soldiers in attendence and tributes to those killed.

If you dont agree with these events, simple dont go over to britain. But to go over there and then complain/protest that they are commemorating their war dead is ridiculous.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4653 - 10/11/2009 12:41:24    480207

bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 1713

480207 RKF - They do the same all over the world - American Football games regularly have soldiers in attendence and tributes to those killed.

If you dont agree with these events, simple dont go over to britain. But to go over there and then complain/protest that they are commemorating their war dead is ridiculous.
Never went over there to complain. As I stated in my previous post when I did live there they remembered their dead with dignity.

Real Kerry Fan (None) - Posts: 2957 - 10/11/2009 12:45:15    480209

RKF - thats fair enough, i said dont complain/protest in reference to the celtic fans who did this in scotland at the weekend and those defending this here.

I have also seen war remembrance days around the world - playing 2 up in australia, veterans day parades in the US...etc Its a matter of showing respect for the country you are in and respect for the people there who have lost loved ones. While I might not agree with the wars, i feel it is wrong to jeer and taunt the dead and their families. Apparently I am in a minority on this.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4653 - 10/11/2009 12:54:14    480215

bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 1714

480207 RKF - They do the same all over the world - American Football games regularly have soldiers in attendence and tributes to those killed.

If you dont agree with these events, simple dont go over to britain. But to go over there and then complain/protest that they are commemorating their war dead is ridiculous.

Bad Monkey, throughout this thread I have agreed with some of yur posts and disagreed with others. I accept that a minority of Celtic's supporters are moronic sectarian thugs. I would also like you to accept that Rangers have a far greater minority of these thugs. Sectarianism is institutionalised in the Rangers club, always has been and will be for the forseeable future. As

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 10/11/2009 14:40:26    480303

bad.monkey County: USA Posts: 1714 480207 RKF - They do the same all over the world - American Football games regularly have soldiers in attendence and tributes to those killed. If you dont agree with these events, simple dont go over to britain. But to go over there and then complain/protest that they are commemorating their war dead is ridiculous. Bad Monkey, throughout this thread I have agreed with some of yur posts and disagreed with others. I accept that a minority of Celtic's supporters are moronic sectarian thugs. I would also like you to accept that Rangers have a far greater minority of these thugs. Sectarianism is institutionalised in the Rangers club, always has been and will be for the forseeable future. As I have said previously, Celtic are seen as a Catholic club only because Rangers ARE a Protestant club. People have the right to freedom of speech and expression, ironically due to the sacrifice of WW1/2 victims, and should not by any means have to partake or be compelled to join in any commemorations. Lets not forget that Remeberance day is no longer applicable to the world wars but to all conflicts where British Servicemen have died. The use of Aidan McAnespie as a reason not to respect this commemoration is quite valid and serves to highlight that the blanket commemoration of British Servicemen is incorrect as some quite blatantly were and are murderers who used the cover of the state to escape punisment of their crimes. RKF's assertion that people should not be forced to commemorate this event is correct. If you lived in West Belfast for example, would you expect to have to attend a memorial for Pearse Jordan, shot down in a hail of bullets by the security forces after they ram raided his car. Incidentally he was unarmed. The same can be applied almost anywhere. In relation to German's working in Britain, Ballack given as an example, is it fair to expect that he ( who incidentally may have had a father, uncle, grandfather etc killed in the war) should be expected to commemorate the memory of someone who may have killed his relation. The answer is no. I respect the right of anyone to respect their war dead, but this should not be enforced on someone who does not share the same viewpoint. I wear an Easter Lilly at Esater Commemorations but I do not wear it at work (ostensibly because I am not allowed) although co-workers are allowed to wear a poppy. The fact is that I would not expect people who do not share my ideals etc to have to, yet Irish, German, Italian, Austrian workers etc are expected to commemorate the servicemen of the country whom they fought against!! This is crazy in my opinion and the fact that you expect those who work in Britain to simply accept British customs blindly. Reminds me of a quote from a Protestant man who lived in South Armagh when asked about sectarianism in the area. He said "You don't have to be a Roman to live in Rome but you have to abide by Roman law" In effect Protestants, though small in number in this area were tolerated as long as they kept to themselves and did as they were told. This is de fato sectarianism and you are espousing the same message, quite ironic when you are the one giving out about sectarianism all the time. By the way, I would be interested to hear what your definition of sectarianism is?

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 10/11/2009 15:01:28    480338

just staying quiet for one minute while families grieve loved ones is surely not that difficult. Most people would just respect it because they are in britain and the people there lost alot of family and friends, as they would in any other country. Simple as. Disrespecting this is just the sign of a low human being whether you agree with the wars or not.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4653 - 10/11/2009 17:24:34    480474

What are you going on about Families grieving loved ones, I thought this commemoration was about the dead from World War 1 & 11. Tis 65 years since World War 11 there are hardly any grieving families still around. This was a State sponsored Commemoration everybody inside the ground stayed silent, 40 or so lads outside sang a verse of the Aiden McAnaspie ballad about a GAA lad who was murdered by the British Army. Thats it plain and simple stop trying to complicate the issue and answer the question posed to you by previous poster.

corkcelt (Cork) - Posts: 4388 - 10/11/2009 19:17:32    480553

Corkcelt,a good percentage of actual Celtic fan's have never even heard of Gaelic Football



Where in Ireland is Glasgow ????

Duffy89 (Wexford) - Posts: 3320 - 10/11/2009 19:41:35    480581

I bet quite a number of you had a relation or knew somebody who had a relation who fought in the First World War.

Auldfella (Meath) - Posts: 472 - 10/11/2009 19:56:08    480595

Auldfella
County: Meath
Posts: 132

480595
I bet quite a number of you had a relation or knew somebody who had a relation who fought in the First World War.

None here. Always were a peaceful family.

Real Kerry Fan (None) - Posts: 2957 - 10/11/2009 20:05:03    480611