Get rid of this rubbish thats ruining our game bring in the life or death again! Vote for or against the back door. Im against!

defeatest (Cork) - Posts: 270 - 15/10/2009 12:04:16    455216

against the back bring back the old championship

Tomlangan (Mayo) - Posts: 406 - 15/10/2009 12:10:32    455217

I'm in favour. Two provinces, Munster and Connacht, are by and large always won by just two counties. Ulster, and to a lesser extent Leinster, are far more competitive. The back door system lessens the advantage that the strong counties in Connacht and Munster currently have.

Tongo (UK) - Posts: 1795 - 15/10/2009 12:11:32    455220

This would suit the bigger two in Munster and Connacht, but realistically all that training and effort for one championship game? Championship needs a complete overhaul - more emphasis needs to be placed on the National League - ie top 12 in the the league compete for All Ireland Senior, next 12 compete for Intermediate - rest for Junior title. Winners or finalists promoted to next grade, bottom county or bottom 2 relegated to next grade.

irlande (Fermanagh) - Posts: 535 - 15/10/2009 12:19:58    455228

i vote to delete this thread, cos the back door system is here to stay whether you like it or not. P.S no surprise the 2 posts so far agreeing to scrap it are from counties beaten by back door teams and two of the biggest chokers when they get to big matches in croke park

The.Rock (Meath) - Posts: 582 - 15/10/2009 12:28:57    455243

I know that we NEED the back-door to have a bit of a summer ourselves but I think that Down and other counties could benefit from it actually going because it would bring back the excitement in the provincial championships to a certain extent and we can raise our game when required.

Also Kerry would stop getting second chances to beat Cork

Down_man94 (Down) - Posts: 90 - 15/10/2009 12:44:11    455263

Down_man94
County: Down
Posts: 5

I know that we NEED the back-door to have a bit of a summer ourselves but I think that Down and other counties could benefit from it actually going because it would bring back the excitement in the provincial championships to a certain extent and we can raise our game when required.

Also Kerry would stop getting second chances to beat Cork
_______________________

Football's not all about Kerry you know. The backdoor has helped plenty of other All Ireland winners, eg. Tyrone, who would have only won the All Ireland once were it not for the back door.

3inarow08 (Kerry) - Posts: 2455 - 15/10/2009 12:48:58    455273

Tongo
County: UK
Posts: 34

I'm in favour. Two provinces, Munster and Connacht, are by and large always won by just two counties. Ulster, and to a lesser extent Leinster, are far more competitive. The back door system lessens the advantage that the strong counties in Connacht and Munster currently have.
_________________________

What a load of tosh.

Munster and Connacht are as competitive, if not more, than Ulster, the only difference being Ulster having more teams than the other two. Which makes Ulster worse in my eyes. You say only two counties win Connacht and Munster - name a county other than these two counties, Tyrone and Armagh, that have won Ulster in the last ten years? Answer - NOBODY. So while Kerry, Cork and Tyrone, Armagh dominate their provinces, at least Sligo put up a challenge to Galway and Mayo in the recent past. As for Leinster, yes Dublin have won the last 5 in a row, but many other counties have won it in the last 10 years, ie Meath, Kildare, Laois.

Basically it all has to do with the number of teams in each province. The more teams in a province the more likelihood you have of having different teams winning it each year. It's to Dublin's credit that they have been so consistent in Leinster the last 5 years. The provincial system should be scrapped and be drawn up into 4 groups of 8 teams each.

3inarow08 (Kerry) - Posts: 2455 - 15/10/2009 12:58:22    455284

You are one touchy lad 3inarow08. Heaven forbid anyone would (even accidentally) impugn Kerry by referring innocently to their success through the back door. By the way I am 100% behind the qualifier system. It has been a breath of fresh air to the Championship.

gaelantrim (Antrim) - Posts: 1616 - 15/10/2009 13:06:06    455291

Keep it until somebody comes up with a better suggestion.

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 15/10/2009 13:11:16    455298

I like the extra matches that the qualifiers bring, otherwise the season ends early for a lot of teams. Just look at Wicklows run this year. In relation to Kerry, front door,backdoor Kerry have got through to croke park(look at the statistics), so I wouldn't change the rules just to prevent Kerry. If there is another system that can keep with the extra matches, maybe that is the way to go but to go back to the old system would just boring and same old teams meeting up again and again, year in, year out. Also, its unfair to teams losing early in the championship to be out just after one game.

kerrykerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1779 - 15/10/2009 13:44:49    455339

I'm against...

...but only if it's replaced with a meaningful, fairer competition. County championships are organised along round-robin/league table formats before the top-placed clubs advance to the knock-out stages. There's no reason why the inter-county championships can't be organised along these lines. Having a National League that guarantees teams a clutch of competitive games that no one is too bothered about just doesn't make sense.

We can improve on the back-door system, no doubt but going back to the dark old days of unbalanced provincial championships would be a retrograde step.

Googan (Meath) - Posts: 105 - 15/10/2009 14:01:00    455366

I preferred the old championship, do or die as the OP points out.

bosch (Derry) - Posts: 873 - 15/10/2009 14:57:37    455415

Keep it as it is. Maybe needs a tweeking to favour the provincial winners, as they dont get a second chance.

JPM1981 (Kildare) - Posts: 825 - 15/10/2009 15:05:07    455426

Its a window dressing exercise only to make the championship look good, but in real terms all its doing is giving the big guns a chance to regroup should they be beaten first time out, ie Kerry (2), Galway,and Tyrone, next year will be no different, they say the cream always comes to the top, I have no problem with that, but I do have a problem with how it gets there, to make it a more level playing field, pull the plug on the back door system,---at least in its present foremat.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3204 - 15/10/2009 15:52:34    455477

Ah triona, good to see a jaundiced viewpoint. I believe i referred to the whole province and not just the dominant counties. One cannot deny that Dublin, Tyrone, Armagh, Kerry, Cork, Mayo and Galway have all dominated their respective provinces of late, such is the way of sport. However, one also cannot deny that there is more depth in Ulster and Leinster then there is in Munster and Connacht. Derry (2004), Fermanagh (2004), Meath (2007 & 2009), Monaghan (2007), Wexford (2008) and Kildare (2009) have all made an impact on the latter stages of the Championship in recent summers. I'm not noticing much coming from Munster and Connacht. Just when was the last time Kerry lost a Munster Championship game to anyone other than Cork? And vice versa? Without checking the stats, i would reckon the 1992 Final against Clare in Kerry's case. (Although i will stand corrected on this one!)

Tongo (UK) - Posts: 1795 - 15/10/2009 16:05:40    455495

Divide Ireland into four equal groups as close to each other as geographically possible.

Suggestion:- North South East West.

Antrim Cork Dublin Galway
Armagh Carlow Kildare Donegal
Cavan Kerry Louth Mayo
Derry Limerick Laois Roscommon
Down Tipperary Meath Leitrim
Fermanagh Waterford Offaly Sligo
Monaghan Wexford Westmeath Longford
Tyrone Kilkenny? Wicklow Clare
London Prelim rd
New York Prelim rd

1. Each group to be run by Provincial Council of that region.
2. Open draw in each group which equals 4 winners and 4 losers
3. 4 losers will get second chance with open draw against each other in their group. No second chance to anyone after that which guarantees everyone 2 games
4. 4 winners in each group will play each other in open draw.
5. Winners of losers will play winners, again in open draw.
6. Winners of each group will then play All Ireland Semis.

Draw format for each Group/Region Note;- winners in brackets. ( ) All hypothetical.
W Winners Losers Semi Final
1V2 (1) 1V3 (1) 2V4 (2) 1V6 (1) 1V5
3V4 (3) 5V7 (5) 6V8 (6) 5V2 (5)
5V6 (5)
7V8 (7)

Advantages
1. Each group/region gets same amount of games.
2. Each team will get 2 games minimum.
3. Back door for losers of 1st round only.
4. Only 1 representative from each group/region
5. Without calling it provincial finals, call them Regional Finals.

Disadvantages
What to do with Kilkenny? I say make them play football if they want to play hurling and handball too if necessary.

Modification of my idea is allowed and welcomed. No criticism is allowed only if you have a better idea to anything Ireland has had in the past.

Thank you for reading my post. .....The Skipper.

TheSkipper (USA) - Posts: 71 - 15/10/2009 16:48:07    455563

Tongo, I gave you the reason why you see more counties from either Ulster and Leinster at the later stages - because there are more counties in Ulster and Leinster.

We have 6 in Munster, realistically there are 5 in Connacht. Leinster has 11 (not including KK) and Ulster 9. Going back through all of history you are bound to get a few years where a certain county will have a good crop of players and make a good run of championship appearances and possibly wins. The more teams in your province the more of a chance of a county having a good run every blue moon. So the reason there is "more depth" in Ulster and Leinster is because there are "more teams" in both. Depth = number of teams in my book.

As for much coming from Munster or Connacht, Sligo have done well in recent years. Limerick aren't too bad either. And I wouldn't discount Tipperary. Any of those three teams I mentioned would beat the likes of Fermanagh or Wexford right now.

The last time Kerry lost in Munster to anyone but Cork would probably be Clare in 1992 as far as I know. I'm also open to correction. Limerick have beaten Cork in the recent past also.

3inarow08 (Kerry) - Posts: 2455 - 15/10/2009 16:57:56    455575

There are huge problems with the back door IMO. Sweeney on the back page of the Sindo did a great article on it a few weeks ago: http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/novelty-gets-shown-the-door-1903772.html

His major point about the novelty of the 90s which was the most open decade in the history of Gaelic Football. With the back door all that is gone. A second chance suits stronger counties. It always has. How many times have we seen the stronger team winning a replay? Usually if the weaker teams doesn't do it the first day, they won't do it the second day.

Googan mentions a round robin system. While it gets rid of the provincial championships and does not get us back to a straight knock out, I would prefer it over the current system. The dates for each round could be laid out at the start of the year. Of course the powers that be would not like to condense the Championship season down to 6 or 7 weekends (3 group games, round of 16, quarters, semis & final) due to the negative impact on TV, it would be a lifeline to clubs.

On the subject of clubs, I think every county should be forced by Croke Park to play at least one round of their first team championships in both hurling and football between the end of the national leagues and the start of the provincial championships. It's bloody ridiculous that junior B players have to wait around until the middle of August as we did in Kildare.

Cilldara_2000 (Kildare) - Posts: 57 - 15/10/2009 17:02:14    455585

Scrap it! Bring back the old system!

Royal_Girl2k9 (Meath) - Posts: 2107 - 15/10/2009 17:45:47    455648