People are missing the point of the non-competetion Go Games model. Its designed in order to ensure that all the skills of the game are practiced and developed which does not happen in an under age competetive situation. You'll see U10 games get dominated by the 2 or 3 players in each team who are more physically developed then their peers. They win possesion then run through the opposition with the rest of the players hoping to pick up a break or two.

Competetion should not be totally taken out but as the original poster says there is a significant argument to limit competetion in the early days. This ensures that by the time the children are around U13 they have been given time to develop their skills in match situations as well as in training drills.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13811 - 19/09/2009 15:03:23    430499

SeamieMac

We are adults here and we are having a debate with people on both sides making very good points. You have lowered the tone. You made a statement with the words containing "best international research". The "best" is always subjective, what one person considers the "best" might be what another person considers the "worst". Also, as a person involved professionally in social science research, the one thing that is true for all research is that there is room for further research. So essentially "the best international research" as you put it, is essentially just opinion. Do not talk to me about loose "facts".

Left Corner

I like the Go-Games concept (well, like the Down poster, some of it is good and some not so good). I have stated in my previous post that I believe there should be reduced sided games. I follow this 95% of the time (we match the number of players we have with the opposing team to avoid cancellations and to avoid having subs), we also play the rules of the game (one-hop, one solo etc), sometimes modifying so only full forwards can score (and rotate the full forwards to ensure that all of the weaker players get to touch the ball). However, the only point where we disagree is keeping score. It really does not matter to me too much, but from my experience of working with kids, they WANT competition. If our adult team were as competitive as our under 10s, we would be senior!

Thistle Harps, Royal Girl and others have made some very good points on this subject. We might not agree but I do respect the opinions of the other side (Thistle Harps and Left Corner etc)

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 19/09/2009 15:23:18    430506

To Wingwonder,

I dont think we are the worst county in Ireland and by the wat it is being tried out at U8 and U10. The dispute is about bringing go games at U12.

Next time get your facts right before you comment,

Hurlingguru.

hurlingguru (Carlow) - Posts: 1848 - 19/09/2009 15:45:17    430525

BennyBunny, please read my original post and please don't misquote me. I didn't use the words 'best international research' once. Get your 'facts' right before making 'loose' accusatory statements. Yes you are entitled to your opinion but the fact still remains that too much competition at a young age is not healthy for kids and can have a detrimental effect on their development. Like it or not, thats the truth of the matter. Competition has its time and its place but not at u8 or u10 level. Fun, enjoyment and development of skills is what is important in this age group through small sided games. Yes we are all 'adults', as you put it on this board but let's stop trying to impose 'adult' values on children's games and you as a so called student of social science should know that better than most.

SeamieMac (Donegal) - Posts: 15 - 19/09/2009 16:06:05    430540

I think every club should give it a go. The concept is first class. I have been involved in it for three years with our club and it really brings the weaker players on and forces the better players to release the ball and become more of a team player. Taking away the competativeness allows coaching to focus on technique and the kids having good fun. The other option is to rely on a goalie with a good kick out who can reach the midfielder who will steamroller his way in on goal.

I realise the tradition and passion associated with representing your club be it under 10s up to senior, but let's take it one step at a time. Let the children enjoy playing, teach them the skills (how many under 10s are encouraged to use their weak foot in a match?) and gradually introduce the competative aspect at under 13s/14s.

On the point of keeping the score. The good thing about Go games is that there is flexibility to customise the rules. I think the idea of not keeping scores is aimed at under 8s.

thistle_harps (UK) - Posts: 879 - 19/09/2009 16:48:42    430556

No problem with Go Games up until under 12 level. it usually means every lad gets to play and gets involved in the game. But at Under 14 thats where the real competitions should begin.

Kildress WT (Tyrone) - Posts: 67 - 19/09/2009 18:49:18    430591

in holland they have brought in a rule when the 2 teams turn up they mix the 2 teams together to play a match and if one team is beating the other team handy they stop the match and and mix the teams again , like what we all done when we were kids remember , they reakon it improves their skill levels and get use to playing in different positinos and different players it seems to work for them

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 19/09/2009 20:20:59    430640

Good debate here: remember my original post was in response to the ridiculous story from Carlow. If the GAA had a system like the Leitrim one mentioned here it might be the best compromise HOWEVER competitions don`t increase skill level-they impede it. The encouragement in Games must be to develop the ability to play the ball on both sides. Go Games Rules can be modified to meet all needs remember..

leftcorner (Wexford) - Posts: 302 - 21/09/2009 16:29:59    432155

lads just want to look at it from a different angle for a minute... the refs. in meath (and probably many other couties) there is a system called young whistlers. it introduces teenagers, like myself, to refereeing so that the sport doesn't suffer a famine of officials in future. as we are only starting out we can't be expected to ref matches of any real importance, afterall we're only learning. therefore we ref these under 10 and 8 games. if you were to over complicate things at these ages then consequently parents/mentors would become involved, intimidating and off-putting referees. this is not good for the sport as it wouold most likely lose what are voluntary teens genuinely interested in the game enough to give up their time- free of charge- as from as early as the first game they ever ref they are being abused and feel they cannot handle this. the experience of reffing these games is absolutely vital. on occasion i'm asked to keep score and its no problem but for some of my peers maybe even that is a little bit too far at the age of 13-16.
however if it is kept as it is (here anyway), i.e no score, no physical tackling, no competitiveness, then we can get a taste of refereeing and this will undoubtedly lead to numerous refs in the future, without which the game couldn't go on.
also, those going onto senior reffing would have more experience than most current refs, being able to ref from the age of 15 would mean they are fully competant aged 30+.

as far as i'm concerned though the game should not be competitive up untill u12s, as consistent losing would surely put young kids off the sport, as well as my above reason. or maybe the system mentioned by Dr.Shephard from leitrim i think, which would seem to be a very good system if implemnted properly, provided mentors/parents realise they're only kids and it isn't overly serious, i.e don't intimidate refs or employ any foul tactics for the sake of winning.

meath11 (Meath) - Posts: 85 - 21/09/2009 19:27:01    432371

This debate is central to the future development of individual players and their skill levels and also to the club and county teams of the future... i think that that the go-games model is essentially sound in principle and yet can be modified depending upon the age group involved and that 'competitive spirit' can also be part of the development of our young players. As players get older i think that this competitive element automatically develops within them. The problem in the past was that parents etc put too much pressure on their sons and daughters.

For many people the thing to avoid at all costs is where we have ranting and raving parents and mentors involved putting off payers for all time! Also we want to develop the skill levels. Under previous models parernts/menors often lost their senses and screamed abuse at children and these never played again. Also. people bemoan the skill level at present... why? because strong under 10 and 12 players run right through teams. So the GO games has gone a long way to rectifying this situation. Teams play for fun and skills are encouraged. In viewing some of these games players have enjoyed them and yet they do need a little more competitive edge to the games... and a lot of contributors to this debate on this site are already putting this competitive edge into their games with good positive effect.

If the games are structured right and the emphasis is taken away from winning then competition can be there and players can experience this in a healthy environment ... ie... no parents/ mentors losing their heads.

One positive element from Carlow juvenile games is that they have a 'club of the year' award. Marks are LOST for players AND mentors who are over the top in their verbal comments to each other or to the officials. This has helped develop a better overall respect for the players themselves where more positive comments are now there more often and also with the opposing teams.

When people are asked to change things we are usually slow as we are more comfortable with what we are familiar with. Those who have thought these changes through need to 'educate' many of us who have not yet been lucky enough to see all the sides and benefits.

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1881 - 24/09/2009 11:49:15    435119

Thats a really good post Carlowman.. More information on Go Games needs to feed its way down the line.. Talking to a guy I know in the know apparently a major information campaign is in the pipeline and not before time..

leftcorner (Wexford) - Posts: 302 - 24/09/2009 12:40:12    435175