Howshecuttin - Under Jack O'Connor Kerry played direct, route-one football to Donaghy in 2006 and this certainly worked very well for a period as Gooch thrived on his lay-offs. However, teams soon got wise to this. Under Pat O'Shea Kerry have tried to mix this style with patient, possession based attacking when needs be. (They have been critisised this year for over-doing both). My point is that Gooch is the focal point of this possession based attacking and as a result plays a lot further out the field (latter stages of Monaghan and Dublin games last year are a good example). Gooch and O'Shea go back a long way and I think, these days, Gooch has become more a play-maker than score-getter. I'm not sure if you saw much of Dr. Crokes in the AI club series in 2006/2007, but O'Shea's influence on Gooch was very evident as at times he played around mid-field. Over the last few years, in my opinion, Gooch has definitely been in the top three forwards in the country along with McDonnell and Bradley but I think he is developing into a different and maybe better player under O'Shea.

Tomás Tralee (Kerry) - Posts: 391 - 15/05/2008 15:31:51    19470

Liam - If the Martians landed I'd put the ball on the ground and give Brian Sheehan a call!

Tomás Tralee (Kerry) - Posts: 391 - 15/05/2008 15:36:16    19479

woah woah-- how come no one has mentioned oisinn? by far the best player when pressure comes on.
another for the second tier would be niall macnamee and alan dillon. mac is a super player

Rhodejim (Offaly) - Posts: 2888 - 15/05/2008 15:54:53    19490

rhodejim

Your right about oisin although would say he is prob past his best, a medal cabinet any footballer would be proud of, all time leading scorer in ulster championship. Legend

samin10 (Armagh) - Posts: 2434 - 15/05/2008 16:24:41    19510

sam i was basing it on his two league finals, and being a division one player nearly every year bar one, an all ireland semi and a few quarters. also coupled with having to play in ulster where defenses over the past ten years have been very tough.

Baker the glen (None) - Posts: 371 - 15/05/2008 16:32:01    19517

fair enough point about the ulster championship being tough. Dont bite my head off but i dont think he has been that impressive at all in ulster championship. Im sure he has had some very good performances but overall i would not say he has been a real stand out player. As far as the league is concerned would not read to much into it regardless of what division your in. Yes i am sure he has come up against some excellent players and he has certainly done well but most group games anyway are played against half teams and not only that but half fit teams. Dont get me wrtong i am not knocking him i think he is a very good player and any team would be privaleged to have him just saying for all his talents he still like forde has not achieved a great deal.

samin10 (Armagh) - Posts: 2434 - 15/05/2008 16:45:22    19533

colm mcfadden is pure class on his day but when things dont go right they just really dont. A bit inconsistent like the Donegal team, but he's still as good as any around.

Legend92 (Donegal) - Posts: 752 - 15/05/2008 16:53:57    19541

Niall McNamee??

stevieG (Offaly) - Posts: 156 - 15/05/2008 16:55:26    19545

Bradley is no higher than the second tier at present because he plays for himself, when there is a bit of chasing back needed it doesn't happen. Though I believe this year he may have grown up a bit and realised it's a team game. Unproven in the heat of the championship, but we'll see over the next couple of months.

At his best Stevie O Neill is a top tier player and just maybe he'll dawn the red hand jersey again this year.

Dino (Tyrone) - Posts: 19 - 15/05/2008 17:06:48    19554

its fair to say he is a very good player...sure i'd trade 6 longford forwards for one of him (and i know what yer going to say next so dont bother) but if he keeps producing good but not brilliant performances every summer how can he be judged the best. he hasnt even kicked a ball this year yet...maybe the break he had in australia or wherever he was will do him good but i dont no of any player that can just turn it on when he/she wants to. until he can produce performances consistently like we know he can then i'l take my hat off to him but until then....he is no better than your bradleys/mcdonnels/freemens etc

and for the sake of argument if i had to pick a player to kick a ball over the bar to save the human race (well it depends where it was from but say from the 45) i'd pick bryan sheehan...and if he was injured i'd pick bradley next.

howshecuttin (Longford) - Posts: 376 - 15/05/2008 17:32:48    19570

where do ye think declan browne would be, id imagine he would be faily high on the second tier, we didnt see him that often in croker but remember the tommy murphy cup 05 vs wexford it was billed ad browne vs forde browne won hands down kicked some mighty scores that day ? i know it was only the tommy murphy cup but the man has also 2 allstars think if he played with kerry or cork he would be on all yer lists

DVB (None) - Posts: 9 - 15/05/2008 22:06:14    19660

thats a good shout there DVB...never got the recognition for his talent even with 2 all stars

howshecuttin (Longford) - Posts: 376 - 16/05/2008 15:31:15    19998

Tomas, Tralee - Spot on about Gooch. He's an even better player now and has added more to his game, while still giving the scoreboard operator some work to do.

Dino, Tyrone- If Steven O'Neill could play like he did in 2005 he'd be top of any list. We'd have to have a tier 0 just for him.
However apart from '05 he only produced his best intermittently. I know he was plagued with injury problems the last couple of years but even in 2003 he didn't make the starting 15. I don't think he always produced the kind of football that his talent would have merited. If you take '05 out of the equation his career was patchy overall. Admiitedly he was outstanding that year.

aidangalway (Galway) - Posts: 648 - 16/05/2008 15:54:56    20019

aidangalway.

he was outstanding in 2001. allstar

samin10 (Armagh) - Posts: 2434 - 16/05/2008 16:06:36    20029

samin10
County: Armagh

"aidangalway.

he was outstanding in 2001. allstar"
____________________________________________________

Who got an allstar? Aiden?

whiterbannnas (Mayo) - Posts: 2441 - 16/05/2008 16:16:49    20036

no AIDAN did not get one. I dont think so anyway. The Tyrone man.

samin10 (Armagh) - Posts: 2434 - 16/05/2008 16:23:11    20041

if forde was from dublin or kerry there would be a lot more thought of him
the guy is a class act

an.mhi.me (Meath) - Posts: 107 - 16/05/2008 16:56:54    20055

Devenny when he came on the scene ... now Donegals shining light is Michael Murphy, has everything power, feet, vision and a ruthlessness needed to be the best...

Rambow (Donegal) - Posts: 68 - 17/05/2008 00:22:28    20148

rambow, i hope murphy brings his current form into the championship cause hes some talent to have, just what Donegal need

Legend92 (Donegal) - Posts: 752 - 17/05/2008 10:44:33    20170

top tier gooch, mortimer, joyce
second tier, sheehan, galvin, meehan, dooher, cavanagh

ball-boy (Mayo) - Posts: 4211 - 19/05/2008 12:30:42    20634