Dizzy you have made a couple of points that are fair enough but still open to interpretation. You complain that London were 10 points up and didn't bring on subs, can you take a look back to Kilkenny against Waterford in the All-Ireland. Kilkenny were up by 20 points but still the only substitute made was for Comerford who was injured and he gave McGarry a run in his last outing so are you implying that Cody has no respect for his bench and that they may as well not be there? I am not comparing London to Kilkenny or Bolger to Cody I'm sure none of the London players would have been happy to be taken off as they are all fighting for a place in the team for the semi-final. They work hard for their places and don't want to hand them over to somebody else. I know I always wanted to play every minute of evry match. Tom Twomey was excellent when he came on but I believe that he had been very poor in the games beforehand. A midfielder or defender was brought on which could be perceived to be a strange decision but maybe not when you consider that Roscommon had put their centre back up full forward who had a good hand and I presume they wanted extra cover back there to help the full back under the high ball. With regards to Cody even some of his own team mates have said to me that he has loads of skill but lacks physical presence and has struggled since his injury. I still can't see the politics that the knockers are on about and dizzy you have yet to name me a better London team than that which started with the exception of maybe Twomey starting. If it was down to me I would have Vaughan over Cody every time and I'm not a Kilburn man. Name your team dizzy

hypocrit3 (UK) - Posts: 15 - 15/06/2009 23:40:48    312828

I think the main grievance players are having with selections is that players who are playing bad are not getting subbed/dropped and the subs are not getting a chance. Faire enough if some think j. cody is too weak, but that is based on opinion so far as he has not got a sniff of a game in 6/7 matches. In this time new players were drafted into the panel ahead of him and they were thrown straight in for a chance before him. I dont think anyone here is out to bad mouth anyone, to be fair to vaughen he always gives 100% but the fact is he is not getting the scores or having an adequate input to be playing ahead of someone like Twomey who played every game and in my opinion offers more by the way of ball winning and creating chances. I saw a couple of the previous games also and dont believe he played badly except apparantly the derry game which i did not see. I do think that if they are to win they need scoring forwards on the field outside of finn/mcmullen and also midfielders. the team has been chopped and changed around quite a bit lately. for argument sake my team would be the following.
Gannon
burke power/tierney phelan
fox healy kennedy
mcmahon downes
mythen/twomey dwyer o grady
mythen/twomey finn mcmullen

1st subs k. forde, j cody, h vaughn

apache (UK) - Posts: 36 - 16/06/2009 00:09:45    312864

sleep now lads work in the morn

mucker (Donegal) - Posts: 479 - 16/06/2009 00:31:24    312891

hypocrit3. I think you should read my post/s again and digest them fully.You say that i complain that london never used any subs on saturday, where in my post did i say that then???. You elude to mentioning names the likes of cody and twomey.I have never mentioned either of these lads names in my posts. While you seem to want to justify everything that i have wrote then maybe you can tell me why you say twomey had a few bad games and thats why he was dropped so to speak,Well Mr Twomey had a bad 30 mins against Derry and thats it as far as im aware.This other corner forward hasn't been good for the last 4/5 games and he has not been even called ashore once,maybe you can explain that and why do they persist with him when it is so obvious to everyone that he is not up to it. Your logic behind bringing on a back man for Martin finn and not a forward is laughable to say the least,10 mins to go,up 9 points,London playing with a strong breeze,Roscommon have only scored 1 point from a free at this stage and you think it was a tactical strategy to bring on a back because Roscommon had moved their centre back up to full forward because he has a good hand.If their 6 forwards could not score then he was hardly going to do the job for them.You are desperately trying to defend some very unfair decisions and whilst i am willing to look at every argument on merit, you are wrong on this one,no doubt about it.You also say you would have vaughan over Cody any day.Well i have never mentioned Cody as a relaement for him,so im not sure why you want to say that although im sure he is worth a run out instead of vaughan for a change.You also ask me to name a starting 15. Well for the next game if everthing goes to plan and everyone is available i will give you my team,no problem there. 1. P.Gannon 2. E. Phelan 3. F. Tierney 4. C.Burke 5. K. Kennedy 6. N. Healy 7. S.Fox 8. F.Mcmahon 9. K. Downes 10.M.Mythen 11.C.Dwyer 12.N. O Grady 13.T.Twomey 14.M.Finn 15.K. Mcmullan

dizzyrascal (UK) - Posts: 13 - 16/06/2009 09:50:29    313016

I think apache has summed it up nicely in his post. This thing about J.Cody not having a physical presence which was stated by Hypocrit3,are you saying that Vaughan has or something. J.cody is about a foot taller than vaughan,Vaughan is about 5'4,thats some physical presence. Anyway best of luck to them in the nicky rackard as they have got a handy draw in the semi final and should easily get to the final i think.

stranded (UK) - Posts: 408 - 16/06/2009 10:16:40    313041

Physical presence shouldn't matter, although I know that was not the excuse given it was only hinted that that could be a reason why! If he is good enough then size shouldn't matter, i'm not saying the player in question isn't good enough as he is a good hurler in London but i'm just responding to the question of physical presence.
Just to come away slightly from that argument, just wondered what you all thought about the post regarding club hurling and the effect the county is having on that. I mean I support the county 100% but think they need to limit the number of competitions for the sake of the clubs. The clubs may be a victim of the counties success! Agree, disagree or any solutions... interested to see the feedback!

Sean Howlin (None) - Posts: 175 - 16/06/2009 16:19:55    313610

Dizzy why is it laughable to bring on a defender to help out the backs when you are 10 points up. Does this back not deserve a chance to play. Where is it written that a forward must replace a forward. Is it not the case that London were 6 points up in the first half and threw that lead away through a soft goal and what's to say it might not have happened again. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. The selectors were probably just minding the house to make sure of the victory. With regards to your team you did your best to keep all the emmets men on it and yet you accuse Bolger of having club politics. O'Dwyer is a fine hurler but hasn't produced in the last two games, taken off in both I believe. I'm not saying he should be dropped but I cannot understand why Vaughan is getting this stick and not a word about Dwyer. Do you see what happens on the training field. Do any of us on this board know who is impressing in training? If any of you don't agree with the selecting then you can very simply amend this by getting your name proposed to the county board next year. I don't know who asked where O'Dea was but if you ask me he's no loss and that's from experience of having played with London. Ask anybody there were about 12 emmets players on the panel last year and one or two would simply come training the Thursday before a game and still get selected. That is a fact.

hypocrit3 (UK) - Posts: 15 - 16/06/2009 17:42:22    313738

I think i have upset you there hypocrit3. you have now taken to taking verbal swipes at other peole who have nothing to do with this. You now say Dwyer has been playing poor and was taken off in the last 2 games and yet you still fail to acknowledge that the other corner forward who has been poor for the last 4/5 games and he must stay on the field no matter what.Once again your logic astounds me.You ask me to pick a team and then you accuse me of picking all the emmetts players.Are you for real or what?????. This debate has nothing to do with the emmetts players and again you are so blind that you cannot see this.Its about all things being fair and equal to everyone that is trying to get a place on the starting 15,can you not see that for crying out loud.You are more interested in insulting people from what i can see now. Trying to have a debate with some people on here is a waste of time.People come on here to give opinions on things and thats all but, when it gets to this sort of behaviour from someone like you its time to stop.

dizzyrascal (UK) - Posts: 13 - 16/06/2009 18:18:14    313798

lads this is why a london team could never ever be selected its war shure looked every club man is out for his own for the team like , i know it looks good if 12 emmets make the team or 12 gabs lads but is it not better to bring home the cup at the end of the day .

The_Ditch (UK) - Posts: 43 - 16/06/2009 23:21:59    314151

Are you for real dizzy? I never posted anything on this website before this debacle. The reason I started was to the defend the player and selection team that you and one or two others were having a pop at. Vaughan has worked his socks off and I don't know where you get your info but I know the players on the panel rate him and mark my words he will be a match winner. For the record I AM NOT A KILBURN GAELS MAN, I don't care what club a player is from as long as the team are winning. London have been winning their matches by 10 points plus but yet some of you are here focusing on the negatives. It is the likes of you dizzy that make me become negative because rather than say the management and players have done well so far this year, they went to the bother of getting 20 plus players out, trainings are good, you say well yeah they won their matches but the teams they played were useless. Is it the fault of this selection team that London were down in Division 3B, is it their fault that the GAA restructured and London are playing Nicky Rackard, is it their fault that there is a shortage of scoring forwards in London? You have annoyed me rather than upset me. How about you start talking about the positive aspects of London hurling this year. This whole debate could have been avoided, which I for one wish it had and I'm sure many others would agree. Over and Out. (Thank God I hear you say).

hypocrit3 (UK) - Posts: 15 - 17/06/2009 09:11:08    314318

Lads, as a close friend of quite a number of the lads on the London panel (from all clubs), I can tell ye that they think very highly of Vaughan. For some reason, it just hasn't come off for him in the last few games, but the feeling is that its only a matter of time before it clicks for him (even though) they are in the semis now. He might not be tall in stature but he is phsically much stronger than J. Cody.

Personally my starting 15 would be;

1 P. Gannon
2. E. Phelan
3. F. Tierney
4. C. Burke
5. K. Kennedy
6. N. Healy
7 S. Fox
8. F. McMahon
9. K. O'Dwyer
10. T. Twomey
11. N. O' Grady
12. M. Mythen
13. H. Vaughan
14. M. Finn
15. K. McMullen

Unfortunately, I don't think the calibre of many of the subs is up to scratch. Top 4 subs are probably, N. Cody, K. Downes, K. O'Dwyer, J. Cody. At best, the rest are good club hurlers. With a few of the additions to the county this year, hopefully the club championship will be of a better standard than last year.

Does anyone know of any lads playing club hurling that would be good enough for the county that isn't part of the set up yet?

redbaron (UK) - Posts: 2 - 18/06/2009 14:12:31    315936

Redbaron. you have K.O Dwyer playing midfield and you also have him as a sub,whats all that about?????. Your take on vaughan is that its just not happening for him at the moment but your confident it will soon,it better cos there are only 2 games left!!!!!!!!!!!

stranded (UK) - Posts: 408 - 18/06/2009 15:27:42    316029

Stranded I would assume redbaron meant to say k. forde at midfield? So basically from everyones opinion so far the consensus is that the selection panel have still not got the starting team right. I agree with redbaron that the players seem to rate vaughan from training sessions but why leave a man on the field for 70 mins of everygame and drop lads like Twomey, Downes and O Dwyer without switching them or giving them more chances, that is my only grievance. I agree that vaughan is a fine hurler but I also think the other lads are, and they get taken off when things dont come off so why is vaughan immune. And i would say he is not the only man given his fair share of chances. I would have question marks over tierney who has been given chances in every position of the backs and I would be wary of his lack of pace if i was involved. Maybe Im off the mark?

apache (UK) - Posts: 36 - 18/06/2009 23:27:36    316608

Apologies, I meant K. Forde in the middle of the field. I must agree that no matter how good a man is (Vaughan in this case) they should not be treated differently to anyone else on the team. Not far off the mark with Tierney either. He has good hurling in him, but seems to be a tad slow for this level. Only time will tell.

I do feel that London have the best chance for a long time to reach a final, with the semi in Ruislip against Louth/Fingal. Here's hoping. It would be a great lift for everyone involved in hurling in London, club and county alike.

redbaron (UK) - Posts: 2 - 19/06/2009 07:42:06    316703

Lads, as ye will have seen i have debated this at length with my pal and sure as hell dont want to get involved in a drawn out debate again where certain individuals are slagged off,thats not what we are here to do.Hurling is all about opinions,sometimes we are wrong and sometimes we are right, However, the main thing i was ever trying to get across was that i felt some people were getting preferencial treatment,Like someone just said,other players were being taken off when they were playing bad and this other player in question is never ever taken off, whilst he may be doing fine in training he is not producing anything on the pitch where it matters most,i say this from what i see through my eyes,other people see different through their own eyes. Thats hurling for you!!!!!!!

dizzyrascal (UK) - Posts: 13 - 19/06/2009 13:20:31    316987

Lads I've just come across this post and in fairness we shouldn't be saying anything negative about any of the team, I know it's unfair on lads not getting a run but why fix it if it's not broken? I've gone to all the London games at home and yes Vaughan is not going well at the moment but it's encouragement he wants not a slating. I've watched him training and in fairness he is going well. As for people mentioning Cody as maybe a replacement or at least giving him a run I totally agree with him getting a raw deal in there. Has he had a fallen out with management does anyone know? I know him and a lot of players well and since he's come out of hospital I heard he's in the gym 3 nights a weeks trying to improve on what people are saying his lack of "physical strength" so he knows his own weaknesses. What baffles me about this player is why he won't do it in training, I watched him play for the Emmetts against Gabriels in his first game after his injury and I never seen someone to take so many belts and still get up and hurl very well. Then against all be it poor opposition Tomas McCurtains he played wing back and was easily man of the match. I wonder does Bolger or Bergin attend these games. I wouldn't change the team other than i'd have Twomey and Downes starting for definite and maybe Vaughan would be a better impact sub might not be a bad idea to put Neil Coady in full back. All in all the boys are doing well I suppose the only thing we can do is give them our support.

Faithfull (Offaly) - Posts: 573 - 19/06/2009 13:25:58    316990

Lads never mind playing Cody up in the forwards, it's the other end of the field he should be, have any of ye ever seen the chap play in the goal, an incredibly intelligent goalkeeper, he could put a ball in a lads hand from 80 yards and is a great shot stopper. I'm a Kilkenny man (a rare one who can't hurl) and I watched him play an under 21 league final against James Stephen's in Nowlan Park a couple of years ago and it's the only time i've ever heard people saying the goalie bet us on his own, I later found out when he was 16 he was sub goalie on the Kilkenny minor panel that had Cha and Richie Power on it, but he just refuses to play in the goal even though it's his strongest position. The only match London lost was due to soft goals and soft goals almost cost them the league final too so I wouldn't be saying anything about Vaughan or any of the other forwards cause they've done the business in every game. Someone must be winning the frees and creating the scores for the scoring forwards and only real hurling people will see this. It's the other end that needs tweaking

Outsider222 (UK) - Posts: 95 - 19/06/2009 15:20:32    317154

jaysus lads,ive been monitoring this situation for a while on here now,I have read every post by all the different posters and have tried to look at it from what information is being put on here.Now lets get this straight before anyone comes on here accusing me from being a club that might favour anyone. I do play hurling here but with a team in transition at the moment and as you might guess not any of the top flight teams. So here is what i think. It seems to me that most posters seem to agree that young Cody is getting a raw deal somewhere along the line. I have seen him play and he is a decent hurler. I have also seen vaughan play and would suggest that there is not a lot between them.If its correct as most posters say and vaughan is playing very poorly in the last half dozen games then he should be taken off or dropped and someone else given a chance,whether its Jason Cody or not.Also from what i hear and see he cant even get 20 mins of a game to try and impress,now that i would have major worries about from the selection point of view.That would seem to me to be very unfair on the lad.Im sure he is entitled to be given a chance in a game to see if he can do the business as it seems that an awful lot of people are getting chance after chance from what i can read on here.One poster said that vaughan and the other forwards should be left alone as they are doing the business,Well most people would agree with you but not on the vaughan one as he is clearly not doing the business.

illbustya (Leitrim) - Posts: 76 - 19/06/2009 17:54:34    317321

Hot off the press. Nicky Rackard will not be played in Croke Park. Its an awfull shame if this is not in croker. Gutted.

stranded (UK) - Posts: 408 - 19/06/2009 17:57:26    317325

Anyone out in ruislp yesterday to see the game between Kilburn and gabriels. Who won and was it any good??????????

illbustya (Leitrim) - Posts: 76 - 22/06/2009 11:42:18    319160