Any opinions on last nights news??

Brolly (Monaghan) - Posts: 4472 - 21/05/2009 13:31:00    289901

who is our??? what do u mean OUR church??????

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 21/05/2009 14:27:32    289958

It's always been known, an inconvenient truth if there was ever one!!... Our little country is a messed up little place. We need to learn our lessons. We're a new little country and we let the Church run the schools for decades because it was cheap to do so... it cost our previous governments very little to "educate" the masses, that's why our elected politicians ignored this problem, and that's why the judicial system is also accountable, mark my words several key Judges in this country will soon resign. Paedophiles were merely transferred from one institution to another, just like cancer spreading, they infected hundreds of children's lives and the Church knew about those individuals, they willingly let children be raped and tortured for generations, this is hopefully the death bell for the Christian Brothers and the Nuns, we no longer need their brand of education. The land should be taken back from them and not sold for millions to further feed the Church; the land should go back to the people, or the profit made by the selling of Church owned land should be used as compensation to those raped and tortured by OUR system,

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 21/05/2009 14:30:47    289961

Well i am a Prostestant, Anglican i think my church has not being affected as much as the Catholic church. Sorry to be Contoversial now lads but do you think Enforced Celibacy in the catholic church has anything to do with it?

paddyogall (Mayo) - Posts: 5110 - 21/05/2009 14:43:15    289980

Paddy, it has EVERYTHING to do with it. It attracted certain "members" of society who would use the church as a cloak of secrecy for their perversions. But again I object to the term "our church" this is not a catholic state anymore and thank god for that. (see what i did there?!) I would still regard myself as Christian, but Catholic.....No. In my opinion the Catholic Church is the single most corrupt entity in Modern Irish History and nothing short of an EVIL Disgrace.

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 21/05/2009 14:58:51    290005

im as open to discussion as much as the next man, but i really think this thread is a too controversal for a laid back forum like HS.

Rhodejim (Offaly) - Posts: 2888 - 21/05/2009 15:08:05    290016

Rhodejim I totally disagree. This is a NON GAA forum and it should be open for all topics including this. The very fact that abuse was ignored and hushed up are the reasons that the problem was so prolonged within the Catholic Church. If we always turn the head when it is mentioned then we are directly contributing to the problem. This was the way the German citizens treated the Jews. They said they didn't know the gas chambers and concentration camps were there but they DID, they just preferred NOT to acknowledge it. Ireland is doing the same with clerical abuse, it's as if we prefer to defend the Church rather than admit that they it committed gross crimes against vulnerable children. By admitting this went on we might start to question our own views and loyalty to the Church so many of us are quite happy to ignore it. It threatens our very being and teachings and is so far reaching that we choose to bury our heads. Yes celibacy was a major contributor to what went on but a lot of it was also to do with power over others who couldn't answer or fight back. The Catholic Bishops have a lot to answer for, some of them should be in the dock with the abusers. The Catholic heirarchy are an insular powerful class driven clique who see themselves answerable to no one especially civic authorities. They still believe they are a law unto themselves even to this day though I believe clerics like Arch Bishop Martin of Dublin are starting to change this perception. I have a lot time for him and believe he would make a better leader than Cardinal Brady who I don't think has covered himself in glory these past few days. Where is ther humility and shame? As a Catholic I believe my Church has failed us badly and I don't know what to think anymore. Can I look at my priest or Bishop on a Sunday with the same respect? I doubt it!

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9818 - 21/05/2009 16:16:34    290108

Liam...

I say OUR because the Catholic Church IS the people. It is the higher-archy and structures within our Church that is the problem. Not the people.
What has happened is the most evil it could be... These criminals don't represent the people with-in our church.
They should be named, shamed, arrested and tried - like the Nazi's were...

Brolly (Monaghan) - Posts: 4472 - 21/05/2009 16:20:14    290113

Brolly are u saying if your not a catholic you are not " of the people"
ARE YOU FOR REAL??!!!

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 21/05/2009 16:30:13    290128

Im genuinely ashamed that theres even such a thing as religion, i really am. But to answer your question Brolly, if i was a catholic i would be ashamed of them but they're only a block in whats become a house of shame built by religions world wide. Religion has been the cause of many sick tragedies on every corner of the globe and while i openly admit that i haven't retained a lot of what ive seen or heard heres a few examples: Catholicism = we know whats going on, its been all over the news recently Sunni Islam = 9/11, need i say anymore American Christians = littered with faith heelers who willfully except desperate peoples money and tell them that they're healed when obviously they're not and could have saved that money for genuine treatments. The years of trouble and all the lives lost over 'the promised land' The thousands of sacrifices that have been offered to all sorts of spurious gods over the last few millenniums. Now i don't want to be taken up wrong here, i fully sympathize with the victims of the horrible tragedies that were revealed yesterday and im not making light of them in anyway. As far as im concerned on that issue it was a thundering disgrace that the names of those evil monsters weren't released and because there is no hell they will die in peace and never have pay for those atrocities.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 21/05/2009 17:15:34    290191

Not until we deal with this outcome properly and bring those responsible to justice will we have tackled the real problems in Ireland. I believe that those directly responsible are the Catholic Church and the ignorance and fear of the Irish State and its people. The real problems in Ireland aren't economic but SHAME.

We were ashamed and felt guilty about our bodies and for enjoying ourselves. All of this the Catholic Church brought upon us. However, they also gave us an education (as opposed to "educating us") (without the abuse) when nobody else would and that should not be forgotten. Indeed others blocked our education.

The others were of course the British and wealthy Catholics who palled with the Brits. That does not mean the British are responsible for the abuse (I have clearly stated above who I hold responsible) but they played a part in it's initiation. Now WE are wholly responsible for putting it right.

Again if we are to deal with this properly (but this is Ireland so we won't) we need to look at everything and that includes its origins. This abuse apparently went from the 1930's to the 1980s so the inclusion of the British and their role in Ireland is also very relevant to putting things right while we the Irish people are responsible.

Real Louth fan (Louth) - Posts: 3157 - 21/05/2009 18:31:36    290285

I am not religous,and do not follow any church.and anyway,why should anybody be "ashamed" of something they have no control over,and the actions of others??

enda.muldoon (Derry) - Posts: 318 - 21/05/2009 19:50:23    290342

It is a disgrace what happened but i will never be ashamed of my chapel as some day i will need god and a priest.

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 21/05/2009 20:26:04    290374

liamwalkinstwon

if you believe in God you will call yourself a catholic. them priests dont speak for catholiscism. what they done is not what God or Jesus preached was it. you dont go to mass to praise the priest. its for God or Jesus and as i said if you believe in the religion you can be assured them priest will be going to hell

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4146 - 21/05/2009 20:37:39    290387

Yes, i don't think the church intentionally set out to attract paedophiles and child abusers, but like most institutions tried to cover things up. Considering transparency the church should be rid of any new cases and no more should come up within the next 10 to 20 years or so...

HokeyPokey (Tyrone) - Posts: 1744 - 21/05/2009 20:46:10    290405

All this proves that there is no God. If there was and he was as powerful and loving as yee all believe he is then he wouldn't have allowed this to happen.

Dr.Shephard (Leitrim) - Posts: 2187 - 21/05/2009 20:46:16    290406

It is not just those that prepetrated these evil acts that are at fault - the catholic church (at all levels), the state and many people outside the church knew what was happening and did nothing. They just shut their eyes and pretended it wasnt happening. It is akin to the people of auschwitz or dachau just carrying on with their lives and pretending not to notice the burning smell coming from the camps. As Edmund Burke said "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".

Thankfully I am not a religious person, how anyone could be a member of an organisation where the sexual abuse of children is 'endemic' is beyond me.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4649 - 21/05/2009 20:51:14    290410

its sad for people maybe a generation ago who are a lot more religious than this one who feel really let down by the church

stranmillis29 (Antrim) - Posts: 788 - 21/05/2009 21:03:12    290419

twas the first time i've ever nearly seen Vincent Browne crying

Duffy89 (Wexford) - Posts: 3320 - 21/05/2009 21:13:16    290432

catholicism/christianity says God made the world and human race so we would have free will to make our own decision. by not letting what happened happen without interfering he takes away our free will wouldnt you say. its the governments fault, and certain irish priests for doing it and letting it happen and the gardaí back then also to a cetain extent. what happened isnt what Jesus preached or his beliefs. its the fault of the people who run the catholic church. not catholicisms fault

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4146 - 21/05/2009 21:30:03    290450