tonorio,

don't get me wrong I can see why Celtic attract so much fans from the Republic & the North, as I see why Rangers have fans in the North too. But it's too easy to just follow them because of sectarian divide. In contrast, anyone who follows Liverpool, Arsenal, United, Forest, Villa, Everton etc is bound to have become a fan admiring the football these sides played in the late 70's or early 80's for example.

I've been to one of the games you mention above and yes there is a nasty element to the rivalry between these clubs. But that said, it's not done along sectarian lines. With Celtic & Rangers I'd always be afraid that when push comes to shove, people will align themselves based on non-football reasons. When you look at the attendances yes they are very impressive, but where are the clubs making progress?

Personally I think the Scottish League should have a 2 tier system with 20 teams per division. As it stands, there is hardly a need to even scout the opposition any more in Scotland. For example, at the start of the year, Inverness play Aberdeen. Why scout them, seeing as you will probably be playing them again in 4-5 weeks time and you are likely to draw them in a cup game too. 10 team leagues that become a 2 horse race after 15 games attract very little interest.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6534 - 11/05/2009 13:01:28    280025

Scottish football is crap, end of.

jimmyjoebob (Armagh) - Posts: 137 - 11/05/2009 13:39:35    280067

Scottish Football is a joke!! Celtic and Rangers would struggle against relegation for the firstfew years, BUT if they survived, with the fan base, the stadiums, the pull of the clubs and being in the premier league, i think, IF they survived a few years, they would go on to be giants. As it is they are 2 big clubs dying in a pathetic league.

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8170 - 11/05/2009 14:13:20    280098

tonario. I dont think you get to decide who posts and who doesnt. People who dislike Celtic are more than welcome to post. This being a discussion forum and all that.

spudenator (Laois) - Posts: 1052 - 11/05/2009 14:25:39    280115

Last year I attended 2 Champions League Games on consecutive nights. Tuesday at Old Trafford United already qualified were playing Sporting Lisbon and the following night at Parkhead a do or die game between Celtic and Shaktar Donesk. It was my first and only trip to Old Trafford and I was genuinely shocked by the venom and aggression in the United singing. Most of the game they were singing vicious anti Scouser and anti Leeds United Songs. The contrast in a much more tense occasion the following night couldn't have been more different the Celtic support were singing totally non offensive Celtic songs and even a Man Utd. Fan who was with me for both games had to agree that the Celtic supporters were something special. There is no such thing as Old Firm supporters, there are Celtic supporters and Rangers supporters. They are not peas in a pod as some would conveniently suggest they are as unlike as chalk and cheese. With 60,000 people anywhere you will of course get a few neds but the vast majority are the soundest lads you'd meet anywhere.

corkcelt (Cork) - Posts: 4388 - 11/05/2009 14:45:13    280143

I agree but non GAA Forum!

Real Kerry Fan (None) - Posts: 2957 - 11/05/2009 14:46:13    280145

It's funny how folk on here can say Scottish football is rubbish, yet forget that it is almost certainly as good as, if not better than both the Irish league and league of ireland !! Are we as Irishmen, taking the ' English' perspective that scottish football is rubbish?. I swear some people must forget that Liverpool and machester is abroad

Meath_bhoy (Meath) - Posts: 590 - 11/05/2009 15:19:31    280180

The scottish league, or Celtic and Rangers, arent as bad as people make out. It became very trendy a few years ago to reject Celtic and the Scottish league. I'm not sectarian in any way and follow Celtic as a football fan and in the same way I'd look out for London Irish or say Boston Celtics. THese days that is considered some sort of crime.

The Scottish league is pretty watchable, in the same way as the Portuguese, French, Dutch leagues are. Pretty much the same teams win it every year and there is often a poor standard.

This is the type of thing that annoys me about some soccer fans. THey think the premiership is over-hyped and below them, take the easy option by cliched slagging of the Scottish league, hate Man U and think becasue the watch a bit of la liga or whatever their opinion means more. All they are are fanboys of the la liga rather than the premiership. Real, Juventus or Bayern are the same as Utd in their respective countries but they don't hate them which is a contradiction if you ask me.

I just watch and enjoy all the leagues for what they are.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12483 - 11/05/2009 15:43:09    280205

HAIL HAIL

ljd01 (Meath) - Posts: 18 - 11/05/2009 22:32:07    280523

tonorio
County: Offaly
Posts: 14

279851
Patrique - One little correction, Rangers are going for their 52nd not 54th


Just seeing who was paying attention.


And Rangers and Celtic would enhance the premiership, which currently has 16 useless sides.

Comparing recent results in Europe is pointless. At present The Gers and Celts get about 3 million in TV money. West Brom get 40 million.

So if we give Rangers and Celtic a lot more money, they can afford better wages and attract better players. At the moment a player is more likely to sign for Hull than Celtic or Rangers, simply because Hull will pay them more.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 11/05/2009 23:02:30    280553

corkcelt, I've nothing against Celtic fans but I would disagree with your post above. Manchester United & Liverpool is a rivalry going back years with the origins of the dislike emanating from the shipping trade in Britain.

Celtic & Rangers are divided across religious grounds and if you think they're not, why do their fans revert to type when the old firm meet? Why do Celtic fans come down to Manchester/Liverpool for testimonials & Champions League games and sing songs about sensitive subjects like bombings in Britain?

Pat Crerard, Lou Macari & Brian McClair played for both Celtic & Manchester United, where do their affections lie? United of course. Souness played for and managed Rangers & Liverpool, where does his affection lie?

I was at Old Trafford for the Champions League final of 2003 between Milan & Juventus. The pubs & clubs were open without trouble until the small hours. Yet for games where Celtic & Rangers come to town, the place is shut down shortly after the games ends - eg last year's UEFA Cup final.

One more point: No Manchester United or Liverpool player has been injured after their games in my living memory. After old Firm clashes, Barry Ferguson & Neil Lennon have both been assaulted. Neil Lennon received death threats for playing for Northern Ireland and Celtic, just like Anton rogan did in the 80's. Do Manchester United or players fans receive death threats for playing for their country?

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6534 - 12/05/2009 14:11:46    281119

Comparing recent results in Europe is pointless. At present The Gers and Celts get about 3 million in TV money. West Brom get 40 million.

So if we give Rangers and Celtic a lot more money, they can afford better wages and attract better players. At the moment a player is more likely to sign for Hull than Celtic or Rangers, simply because Hull will pay them more.

not really. Why have sides like Aalborg & Rosenborg been able to compete in Europe when Celtic & Rangers can't?

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6534 - 12/05/2009 14:27:16    281136

Slayer,

Funny u say that bout places closing because I was in Manchester in October for the Celtic match and no where was closed early.

And regarding not competing one bad season doesnt mean we can't compete. Last year Rangers got to Uefa Cup final and Celtic were knocked out by Barca. No shame there. We know we're never going to win the CL but no one is apart from the big 4 or Barca.

tonorio (Offaly) - Posts: 609 - 12/05/2009 15:06:32    281205

or milan when they are back next year

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4202 - 12/05/2009 15:08:10    281210

C'mon the Hoops..

Galway11 (Galway) - Posts: 570 - 12/05/2009 15:12:01    281218

unfortunately celtic attract a huge amount of 'up the ra' type barstool republicans, it really puts alot people off the club. Most right minded people dont want to associate themselves with these morons or the sectarianism that surrounds the club...who can forget the protester outside croke park holding a 'no to foreign games' placard while wearing a celtic jersey & tracksuit...

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4663 - 12/05/2009 15:13:58    281223

When AC Milan won the Champions League 2 years ago they played Celtic in the quarter final. We were denied a blatant stone wall penalty when Nakamura was pulled down in the box with 5 mins to go with the score at 0 - 0 in the San Siro. Kaka scored a wonder goal in extra time and Ancellotti said that the hardest game they played in the entire competiton was the Celtic match in Milan. For a team with such little resources we punch above our weight but Strachan still deserves all the criticism he gets for not starting McGeady on Saturday against Rangers.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9837 - 12/05/2009 15:18:58    281230

slayer County: Limerick Posts: 696 281136 Comparing recent results in Europe is pointless. At present The Gers and Celts get about 3 million in TV money. West Brom get 40 million. So if we give Rangers and Celtic a lot more money, they can afford better wages and attract better players. At the moment a player is more likely to sign for Hull than Celtic or Rangers, simply because Hull will pay them more. not really. Why have sides like Aalborg & Rosenborg been able to compete in Europe when Celtic & Rangers can't? Celtic and Rangers have better European records than Aalborg and Rosenborg? Celtic at home in particular (obviously, they never win away :))have beaten almost all the top European sides. They reached the Uefa cup final a few years ago and narrowly and controversially lost to Mourinho's Porto who won the champions league the following year. Also as Ulsterman says Celtic gave Milan run for their money a few years ago. Also its only for Rangers fans that pubs close up. Celtic fans are welcomed woth open arms and won a FIFA award for the behaviour of their fans in the Seville for that Uefa final. Rangers on the other hand are constantly in trouble with the authorities everywhere they go. Celtic fans have their faults but they certainly do not deserve to be tarred with the Rangers brush.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12483 - 12/05/2009 15:31:28    281247

Breffni, can I just say though I've nothing at all against Celtic (or Rangers) for that matter. My whole point about them is that I don't think it is right to follow a club because of Sectarian divides. That said, I know Celtic fans who take no part in Sectarian divide and love the club passionately. I admire what Celtic in particular achieved in their history, such as being the first British club to win the Champions Cup in 1967 and I would have loved to have seen them achieve European success under O'Neill in particular as I feel he is an excellent man for managing clubs on low budgets and making them believe they are world beaters - Didier Agathe is a prime example. I also feel that the rivalry between both Celtic & Rangers is pretty strange. Manchester United & Liverpool are rivals for a number of reasons, but none of them religion. No player has moved between United & Liverpool for over 40 years, showing that it is not the done thing and there is more to it than just money. When United were selling Paul McGrath, Liverpool offered 800K but he went to Villa for 450K. Heinze was not allowed to join Liverpool last year. When Gerard hinted he wanted to leave Liverpool, he told the media it would be treason to move to United. Both clubs represent different ways of life in different cities. Celtic & Rangers represent one City, divided loosely along religious grounds. When either club negotiates TV deals or imagine rights, their biggest ally is the other. That is not the case with United & Liverpool.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6534 - 12/05/2009 16:12:53    281296

No player has moved between United & Liverpool for over 40 years = Paul Ince

You can't criticise Rangers\Celtic for having rivalry between each other because of cultural\ethic\religious differences because that was the situation at the time. Glasgow was full of Irish immigrants in the late 19th century and tensions\resentments built up from the local population for whatever reason. The scenario between L'pool and ManU was totally different and for starters they are not even from the same city.


The L'pool\ManU rivalry is just as vile as any rivalry, inc Celtic\rangers rivalry. Just go onto any of the hillsborough memorial groups on Facebook and have a look at some of the comments from Mancs...It's disgusting !!

Meath_bhoy (Meath) - Posts: 590 - 12/05/2009 17:05:08    281360