so what if uruguays colours are the same. it dosnt take away argentinas being the same as the sky, does it?

and ye i do have a soft spot for forlan. was treated terribly at united and once let go to villareal we really saw what he could do. most times he played for united he would get goals aswell

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4201 - 11/05/2009 23:20:01    280583

just shows the poor standard of la liga when forlan can score for fun

bigcook (Longford) - Posts: 129 - 12/05/2009 00:06:11    280624

forlan; couldnt cut it at utd and was shipped off to a poorer standard league
well Patrique, beckham, mcmanaman, lineker and owen didnt struggle from what i remember. When you look at the likes of raul bravo, relegated with leeds and then straight into the real madrid team the following season. Similarly forlan took an age to score for the most attacking team in the league playing against these so called rubbish english teams, yet was a superstar in spain. Antonio Nunez, Mark Gonzalez, the list goes on. Any decent player who was rated highly in england was able to cut it in spain, the opposite cannot be said. As for tough tackling, there is no rule against it, its as much a part of the game as silky skills. If a player cant handle it then maybe he's not as complete a player as he thought.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 12/05/2009 00:17:49    280631

messi has had 3 quad injuries and a broken metatarsal that i can remember and hes only 21. hes no two footed either hes left footed dont talk rubbish, he play on the right but he cuts inside nearly every time.

speedy12 (Fermanagh) - Posts: 592 - 12/05/2009 10:16:25    280738

Personally i think its insane to compare Messi with Ronaldo, Ronaldo is just frightening.

GetOverTheBar (Tyrone) - Posts: 1388 - 12/05/2009 11:03:35    280803

Brolly you hit it on the head. Whether Ronaldo is technically better than Messi is a pont that could be argued for ever and a day. One thing that cant be argued however is that Ronaldo is more effective than Messi. There are people who are going to admire the Spanish and Italian league because they belive it is technically superior to the epl. There are a couple of facts that need to be realised though. The epl is played at a far higher pace. There is less time on the ball and there is more grunt in the tackles. Messi would not look as good in the epl because managers would just crowd him out in the midfield which Ferguson will probably be trying to do in the CL final. Ronaldo scores goals left right and centre in the most competitive league in the world. Ronaldo even though he is on the ground a lot is a lot stronger than people think he stands 6'3. I believe as he gets older and uses his strength more to stay on his feet and protect the ball he will become more of a handful for defenders.

JohnMitchel (Dublin) - Posts: 178 - 12/05/2009 11:13:40    280818

beckham was sold and was only there for jersey sales. he didnt win one trophy at madrid. was useless. owen never made it either. started to get dropped. maybe different leagues suit different players. but forlan would have been good enough for united but they never really gave him the chance. anyway he used to just get on the end of riquelmes passes.

but i see the whole westbrit brigade are out in numbers again defending england the english league and anything that might cause offense to the english

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4201 - 12/05/2009 11:15:09    280823

but i see the whole westbrit brigade are out in numbers again defending england the english league and anything that might cause offense to the english

You're slowly revealing the method to your madness. They're some serious issues you have there which aren't inducive to discussing soccer in a rational and adult fashion.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12483 - 12/05/2009 11:53:31    280880

inducive? conducive? whatever!

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12483 - 12/05/2009 11:59:31    280888

32, you are trying to substantiate what you are arguing by undermining other peooples arguments. You are doing this by trying to introduce an agenda to the whole debate that clearly is not evident in any post so far on this topic. Grow up it has nothing to do with supporting the english or things english its about football. I will give you a fact though, Blatter and Platini are completely anti english football and what happened in the aftermath of the chelsea barca 2nd leg fully proves this point. To silence the referee after he set up the final they both so deperately wanted was a spineless and terribly unprofessional thing to do. So some of the pseudo purists are caliing for barca to win. I hope utd hammer them because football results should not be controlled by 2 or 3 people with a concealed agenda it shoud be played within the four lines of a pitch with equal rulings for both teams with NO interference.

JohnMitchel (Dublin) - Posts: 178 - 12/05/2009 12:06:33    280908

beckham won the league and was instrumental in doing so before he went to LA, capello dropped him and was forced to put him back in due to his form in training he had alot of assists and scored crucial goals towards the end of the season. 3241 your arguements have been consistantly poor and now you are just lying to make your point! forlan had a good goals to games record? none in 27 was a bad start so id imagine that his overall record isnt great

speedy12 (Fermanagh) - Posts: 592 - 12/05/2009 12:54:44    280984

no they started playing guti and that turned their season around not that it took much to win it that year as barca were all over the place for 2 years running. for most of beckhams madrid career he got worse and worse as time went on hence he eventually got dropped and was sold

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4201 - 12/05/2009 13:11:10    281011

he didnt sign a new contract and took the LA offer so capello said he wouldnt play him as he wouldnt b commited but eventually gave in due his form. were you not around at the time? it was all over sky sports everytime he had an assist or scored! hes and over rated footballer but he done his bit that year

speedy12 (Fermanagh) - Posts: 592 - 12/05/2009 14:15:40    281124

was he replaced by raul bravo then eh 32? Fresh from relegation with leeds. ENGERLUND ENGERLUND ENGERLUND
Ur spot on mitchell, ferguson will crowd messi out, and he's within his right to do so. There is no rule saying that you have to let silky players do what they want. It will be interesting to see what barca do with ronaldo. It will be good for football if utd beat them, even though the utd fans will go into overdrive. They are the better team, i.e a team also consists of a defence...
Here's one for u 32, why couldnt ur hero requilme cut it at super club barca? Surely a match made in heaven? And if he was such a godsend at vilareal, why was he dropped and then shipped off back to argintena?
It amazes me how chelsea's tactics are critisized yet when italian sides do it they are lauded as tactical geniuses

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 12/05/2009 14:22:45    281133

i dont really know the story with raul bravo as i dont really care for leeds or madrid to much. but id say like roque junior he hated the place.

barca wont do anything with ronaldo because he's useless against the big teams. ye let the british media say what they want about him doing it against the big teams recently (roma, porto, arsenal) but we all know they are not european superpowers. where was he against the real big teams when they played barca last year and milan the year before, nowhere. barca wont man mark him as they wont need to. but like you say they will probably man mark messi with 10 men because they have to or he will cause absolute havoc which he will probably do anyway

when riquelme went to barca they were 13th. its hard to ask any player to completely turn a team around immedietly (but one things for sure, ronaldo wouldnt) especially when they only gave him limited time to do it. anyway he's amazing on form but is inconsistent. we seen what he could really do with villareal. he then got into a row with the manager and they wouldnt start him or let him go for a long time. eventually they let him go to boca

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4201 - 12/05/2009 15:06:58    281208

No, Messi is better more likeable player aswell..

Galway11 (Galway) - Posts: 570 - 12/05/2009 15:11:09    281216

well 32, if you dont follow madrid how were you able to say beckham and owen were failures? Il explain raul bravo for you, leeds in the premier league might be a bit before your time. They had him on loan, he was only a squad player for them and had a few howlers when he was playing. They got relagated and he went back to madrid and started for them the next season. Also, riquelme didnt do much at barca bcuz he couldnt even get into the side, and them in 13th as you reminded us. Other people watch soccer too you know.
If you think barca wont be worried about ronaldo then I dont think I need to say any more.
How did celtic get on at the weekend?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 12/05/2009 17:49:56    281426

i still know quite a lot about real madrid. its hard not to if you consider yourself any kind of football fan. i do remember leeds in the premiership actually and the ruined arsenals title hopes one year and got beat by valencia in the champions league. i remember leeds very well in the premiership actually but i dont support them hence i said i dont care for them that much. wasnt owen at madrid when ronaldo was out of form, along with out of form saviola and morientes and was still shipped back to england. and if beckham was setting the place alight at his time at madrid why did they let him go. because he was useless for the majority of his stay. they brought him in for jersey sales. and like i said different leagues suit different players. the spanish league has always had the big names and also the italian league and still do have most of them

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4201 - 12/05/2009 18:08:05    281445

if they brought him in purely for jersey sales then why sell him at all? Do you make all this up as you go along?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 12/05/2009 19:07:51    281489

messi hands down

down1991 (Clare) - Posts: 90 - 14/05/2009 08:56:33    282821