Yep - we have SF, YD, Coir, the looney left, the looney right and an American businessman (????) fronting up a multi million euro campaign - all telling us to Vote No! Kinda makes it a clearcut decision as to which is the sensible way to vote.

JayoCluxton (Dublin) - Posts: 2688 - 10/06/2008 10:06:18    30372

Vote NO!
Sick of having politicians skirt around the important issues and try to bombard the prolitariate with rehearsed rhetoric!
Where will our veto go?
What about losing our commissioner?

But we will be weakened in Europe....Yeah right!...Setting our own corporate tax rate, there is no way other nations gonna stop doing business with us!

Wake up everybody!
......We have a government in this country that nobody trusts and have never had a minister stand up and be accountable for anything!.......why believe them, or go along with them for this, only to find out later that we have thrown away all our powers.
In the UK parliament, MPs resign for a lot less than the farces our lads are responsible for!
They treat the public with contempt and as stated, even our own EU minister has said that he has not even read all of the treaty......such arrogance!

Stand up, Irish people and say NO!
This is rubbish, and if you dont understand the thing.....Dont sign it!
Dont just 'play along' with Europe.
I am pro - Europe, but I have a brain, and refuse to buy into something the govt sells me even when our EU minister has not even read it, and Iarla O'Neill took 4min to answer a simple question on 'solidarity' two days ago!

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 10/06/2008 13:24:35    30616

really hope there is a no vote- the irish people dererve a bit of cummupance for their greed over the past 35 years, hand a pound to europe get 10 back - irish have benefited more than anyone from europe and we bit the hand that feed us, vote no i really want to see the fall out from our greed, very interesting point made by the french president/PM on ireland, we will spend the next 35 years getting nothing from europe- nothing will change is the no vote line- they are right nothing will change officially we wont get a penny from europe- we will become more of a third world country- remember all the roads of the past 15 years- bertie wasnt exaclty footing the bill - who is going to foot it now, i really think the average irish person needs to be taken down a peg or two for their inherent greed and lack of logic- it wont really affect me as i have made the necessary changes and im in for a wind fall in my consultancy practice regardless, but i hope we do feel the pinch. i heard the best line on lisbon at the weekend by a 70 year old in the pub, he said 'its like this imagine someone cooked you a breakfast, dinner and supper for 35 years unreservedly, and after 35 years they ask you to make them a cup of tea and you tell them to **** off" thing about it, could put us back 20 years a no vote- im all for it people should suffer and realise there is consequences to their actions. as pops says in any referendum the most logical and worthwhile way to vote is the exact opposite of sinn fein- he really has a point- they are basing their no vote on 'people dies for our freedom' pathetic to say the least

ball-boy (Mayo) - Posts: 4211 - 10/06/2008 14:27:56    30694

Vite yes...who is backing the no campaign! A handful of business men and sinn féin...all leading american companies like Msoft and intel are backing the yes campaign. Why in the name of god would all the parties come together and ask for a yes vote!!!!

johnnos bulls (None) - Posts: 527 - 10/06/2008 14:51:13    30720

Re lisbon.

As far as i can figure, and im no expert, it boils down to this;

The motivation behind the treaty is essentially to turn decisionmaking from a unanimous verdict to a majority verdict.
Therefore individual countries will not be able to hold as much power.

The EU will be able to act more efficiently. However this may result in the concerns of one or more counties being overruled.

Dont allow your judgement to be clouded by the fact that Ireland received aid from the EU. The fact is that ireland have been a net beneficiary purely because our economic circumstances were less favourable to most other countries. As ireland gets richer that pendulum swings and ultimately ireland will become a net contributor. That will not change regardless of the lisbon treaty, the lisbon treaty is not about ireland being generous to less well off accession countries. There is no moral obligation on Ireland to support the Lisbon treaty. By voting no you are not denying the right of other countries to receive the same benefits we did, nor are you attempting to restrict irelands obligation to contribute to the EU. I cannot stress this point enough.

The lisbon treaty is about centralisation of european government. If you believe in a federal style of europe then vote for it. If you would prefer a greater accordance to individal nations' sovereignty then vote no.
If you vote yes you will make europe as a whole stronger and better able to act on the global stage. You will also diminish the influence of individual states.
If you vote no you will not add to the strength of europe on the global stage but you will ensure that individual states are more able to assert their views.

There are plusses and minusses to both options.

I personally will be voting no but I suggest you read up on it for yourselves, you all have the internet so there is no excuse for ignorance. (unless you are from offaly)

Horse (Laois) - Posts: 1146 - 10/06/2008 15:05:59    30734

Sinn Fein seem to be the problem not the argument against the treaty. Strange when you find the leader of the Democratic Left/Official IRA ie Gilmore saying yes. also Gay Byrne voting no.I am very confused so how does it affect the back door system? Can Wicklow get back in if we vote yes?If we vote no will Kerry be stripped of all their titles since joining the EU? How will it affect the weaker counties?Will rugby players have to get proper shaped balls?Lets have the answers before Thursday.

Real Kerry Fan (None) - Posts: 2957 - 10/06/2008 15:10:53    30739

horse i see what you are saying but we will have turned our back on europe they dont need us we need them- and regardless of what the vote is about - the yes vote thing will continue for everyone exactly the same the only thing is perhaps it may not be a stupid irish politician making the rules it will be a stupid european, now if we vote no it will undoubted affect our pockets we will have bitten the hand the feeds us- no matter what europe propose the best for ireland is going along with it in an economic sense, voting no cost money- dont get me wrong i want this to happen i want the irish to suffer for their greed, im fine im wealthy but if those on the bread line are so stupid that they listen to the like of gerry adams well they deserve everything we get.

Do you want the cash to keep coming? YES or NO that is all you are voting on its as simple as that, i want a no vote i want to witness the dark days of the 80s i want to test myself to see really how good am i, anyone can make a serious go of things when time are good- but when time are bad the best float and the rest sink and i would fancy the challenge- so vote no i want to see how this one pans out

ball-boy (Mayo) - Posts: 4211 - 10/06/2008 15:23:16    30751

have to say yes to lisbon.ever since may /1967.how could i go against it.is it possible 2 strip kerry.s titles. might vote on that one.

acrossthewater (None) - Posts: 110 - 10/06/2008 15:34:04    30765

anyone can make a serious go of things when time are good- but when time are bad the best float and the rest sink and i would fancy the challenge- so vote no i want to see how this one pans out

I salute your hunger for the challenge ballboy, if only there were more like you...

but if those on the breadline do end up getting shafted how will they afford tickets for hill 16?????

Horse (Laois) - Posts: 1146 - 10/06/2008 16:02:11    30791

So its No to lisbon Well I dont mind admitting I voted yes, simply because I would NEVER say yes to anything a combination of Sinn Fein, some crowd i never heard of before or probably ever will again, and Youth Defence also say yes to. I cant imagine a coalition i could possibly depise more, especially Sinn Fein and Youth Defence. But The Government, and FF in particular have no one to blame but themselves. They took the Irish People for granted and now its coming back to bite them in the ass. Well boo hoo. Get the feeling Cowan is gonna be the Irish Gordon Brown. I'd say Bertie and Tony are sitting back having a glass and toasting each other!

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 13/06/2008 13:44:47    32419

i voted yes and while i would be no expert on irish politics, i am dissappointed to see that the no side has won. in all probability, there will be 26 countries who give it the go-ahead and just the one no namely ireland. we will probably be a bit of a laughing stoack as far as europe is concerned tomorrow morning too. 18 other countries have already ratified the lisbon treaty and 8 more will probably do so. i just pity brian cowan and micheal martin who have to stand before europe next friday. what are they supposed to say? also i cannot understand how the people elect a dail full of fianna fail, fine gael and labour tds. all these lads say to vote yes and we end up going for no. why would you elect people who you clearly do not trust?

Loyal2TheRoyal (Meath) - Posts: 4522 - 13/06/2008 14:40:25    32476

Liam you dont seem to happy about the No Campiagn organisations is there any particular reason why? I personally thought the treaty is just trying to Americanise us with Money, Military and Power all being inspired by American aristocrats. Now we can maybe get a europe that doesnt produce a treaty that concentrates largely on Military. Now i admit that i dont know much about the treaty, brown went and just signed the thing on behalf of England, Scotland, Wales and the North Of Ireland i mean weres the fairness there? the people cant even decide there own fate in a part of ireland surely this couldnt be correct? yes it is, no referendum no votes just being dictated too by London all sounds very Familiar. There was me thinking ireland was a free country for all a democratic peoples republic yet they are happy to join forces with countries who dictate to there people and people who dont even belong to them not much free about that? Europe would be a massive dictatorship with this treaty it needs renegotiated if it cant be renegotiated then that proves the dictatorship front.

North Side Gael (None) - Posts: 1076 - 13/06/2008 14:56:14    32494

Well lads the country has spoken.Most other countries that ratified the treaty did not have an opportunity to have a referdum. France and Holland voted no but their governments overruled the decision.Democracy is the winner. Now come back with a new treaty that is clear and with no hidden agendas. The scaremongering by the yes campaigners was a bit too much for the average voter. Using Sinn Fein a reason to vote yes was a poor one. Look FF,FG and Labour/DL/WP joining forces did not sit well with people.

Real Kerry Fan (None) - Posts: 2957 - 13/06/2008 15:03:09    32502

NSG i cannot abide the 26 Counties version of Sinn Fein, in fact i despise them. It was very clever of Gerry to make Mary Lou the SF face of this referendum and not COC or MF because I can guarantee you if either of those two ....i wont say whats....tried to tell us what to do, yes would have whalloped the No's. I hate those two with a passion and I hate everything they stand for. And also for SF to go on about being afraid on militarisation.....the bare face cheek!!!! I can seperate Northern SF and Southern SF, and i HATE southern SF. As for Youth Defence. If i said what i thought of them, it wouldnt be printed NSG, suffice to say I wouldnt be a fan.......Eoin O'Duffy would....follow?

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 13/06/2008 15:06:47    32507

"beware!
beware of the risen people!
beware of the thing that is coming!
Ye that have harried and held!
Ye that have bullied and bribed!!!"

This NO vote has sent a shot across the bows af a government that shows so much distain towards the public and displays such arrogance that its EU minister said he didnt even read the treaty himself!
What will the arrogance of them do now?....Hold the referendum again until they get the vote they want, just like the Nice treaty eh!

NO! was not a vote for Sinn Fein or any group ye never heard of before. That is silly to say!
More than half the country dont support SF now do they! Silly!

Watch now how Cowan will come out and lambased the Irish public like we were school children!

A few words to the govt:
Get the health service in order!
Get the judiciary to do its job properly and stop avoiding its responsibilities!
Stop telling people to use public transport while ye drive around in gas guzzlers!
Etc etc etc.....!!!!

Lose the filthy arrogance and the public might respect ye!
This was not about Europe, this was about the Irish people doing what Irish people do best and that is bringing about the downfall of people who have got so big for their boots that they forget themselves!

If anybody has ever been to Berlin and seen the Reichstag, the dome on top is glass and the public can walk in the dome and look down on the chamber.
The architects brief stated that this was so the politicians could always look up and "be reminded of who exactly their masters were!"......Class!

Regards,

Snufalufagus.....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 13/06/2008 15:11:06    32512

Tis a sad day today with the treaty being rejected. Too greedy and shortsighted.

RMDrive (Donegal) - Posts: 2202 - 13/06/2008 15:24:43    32519

My pet dub was mad to vote but i didnt let him coz he was gonna vote yes the tool. I didnt vote meself but i would defo have voted no. I figured there was no point voting coz my 1 vote would hardly make a difference to the overall outcome. I think more people should have that attitude

whiterbannnas (Mayo) - Posts: 2441 - 13/06/2008 15:33:18    32530

Liam

What is the deal with southern Sinn Feiners? Martin Ferris does very well and is well welcomed in most parts of Kerry and is a hard worker for the people as for others i cannot comment i havent been in their constituencies but would be interested to find out what there deal is?

Are they louts who go around acting like hard men?

Are they people who started to become upperclass in the last 12 years?

Or is it just theyre past you dont like?

What is the deal why do you respect Shinners in the north but not in the south? I must say another dirty trick by FF this time round didnt work out, if anyone remembers a certain person was released early on the run up the the General election last year. Now this year a certain court case was called just on time for referendum, id expect this sort of thing with corrupt unionists but not are southern counterparts who share a similar past. Fair play to ya for coming out and saying what youve said, i think snuff is correct when he talks of the arrogance and forgetfulness of cowen and co they need to remember who really run the peoples democratic republic of ireland. I think its about time the Irish in the North Of Ireland were able to vote representatives into the dail what does everyone think?

North Side Gael (None) - Posts: 1076 - 13/06/2008 15:34:51    32533

160 out of 166 tds say to vote yes. what do the people who elect these lads go and vote? the ignorance of the irish is unreal. in the bigger picture, ireland are a disgrace. 26 european countries need to please the wishes and demands of sinn fein and the "no" group?

Loyal2TheRoyal (Meath) - Posts: 4522 - 13/06/2008 15:40:23    32544

Liam

I am with you all the way on this one. I am embarrassed at this result. Thank God the people of my constituency (Meath East) had the good grace to vote yes. The worst thing about this is that I cannot believe that my opinion on Europe is in the minority. Maybe we should have the good grace to leave and pay back all the funds we got from the rest of Europe over the last 35 years. Maybe that's why so many voted no. They realise the funds are drying up.

Snufalufagus
While I disagree with most of what you said I take your point about many of the things which are wrong about this society. Particularly the judiciary who are not doing a very good job at the moment and appear to have lost the plot entirely. None the less this referendum was not about them or most of the other negatives that we have been subjected to over the past few months. The only solution is to return to the polls and get it right next time. Otherwise the rest will move on without us and I would support them in this. We would be invited to join up when we are ready.

The real Árd Rí (Meath) - Posts: 990 - 13/06/2008 15:41:29    32546