patrique the best footballer in manchester is gary neville everyone knows this

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 06/04/2009 21:44:49    250174

hipster
County: Dublin
Posts: 442

250174
patrique the best footballer in manchester is gary neville everyone knows this


Funny you should mention that. I was just thinking of a fine example of how the media manage to brain wash people. Man United's record breaking impregnable defence has actually conceded three more goals than Chelsea, having played a game less. Did anyone know that, or did we all just accept that United had the tightest defence in the league without bothering to check? And Chelsea have been without Cavalho, the best (only) defender in the league.

Now a question, anyone else think Liverpool's outstanding player this year, remember it started in August, has been Alonso?

And just to let you know that Alex Ferguson and I agree on one thing. In his 22 years at the club Ferguson believes the best player he had on the books was Veron. So do I.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 07/04/2009 00:56:15    250377

32_4_1 Didnt mean it eh? Well why did you say it? Funny enough that superstar arshavin wasnt even starting for russia before the tournament... And if ronaldo was average at lisbon when he was 17 (which he wasnt because there was a list of clubs trying to sign him, thanks to Queiroz he came to utd) then where has arshavin been for the last 10 years? The russia bench? If ronaldo is such a one trick pony then how did he manage over 40 goals from midfield? If you could do it then surely professional footballers would be able to quickly suss him out? And no im not wrong about Zenit, they sold an Argentine lad for around 8 million and two others retired after the uefa cup win... Hamburg signed a fair few others as well as van der vaart (kompany and nigel de jong for starters), the same van der vaart who is not getting on at real madrid. Sneijder is ahead of him, and guess what he tracks back... as for zaragoza and aimar, they where actually relegated the following year after selling their CB milito, to barca, however aimar was still there... But you have to wonder, why were these superstars going to clubs like hamburg and zaragoza in the first place? Any more half truths you'd like cleared up?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 07/04/2009 11:53:06    250615

patrique i dont know where you get this stuff, ferguson named a squad of players that he thought would be his best ever side, it came to 26 and veron wasnt even in that...

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 07/04/2009 12:08:18    250637

Just back on topic - has uniteds season imploded, I certainly don't think so at all. The Fulham result certainly gave Liverpool a chance but United would still have to draw 2 of their last 8 and Liverpool would still have to win every game and would still have to keep a better goal difference. I still see that being a tall order. Liverpool certainly hindered their chances with their poor home form. Draws against the lower placed sides is ultimately what hampered their chances. Every team will have a bad run at some stage but its all about how you bounce back from it. If Liverpool had the same momentum now 6 weeks ago they would be in with a great chance. The difference in the football that they're playing now is amazing - think of how laboured it was against Everton or the passing against Boro compared to the fluency against Villa and Fulham. My worry as a liverpool fan is that Benitez will be villified over this season even if Pool come second. Granted Pool have only lost 2 games this season but from a purist point of view, the football Liverpool play is only effective when 2 players are fit (Gerrard and Torres). Any team would struggle without players of that calibre but you develop your team to play without them should their ommission occur. United are the perfect example of this. Unless Liverpool buy some more proven talent in the summer they will eventually find themselves going through the same routine every year - pulling off a few big results but ultimately not picking up enough wins against the weaker teams and still playing poor football. As for Ronaldo, the guy is a great player - 42 goals in the one season is no fluke. Arguably, he was the best footballer in the world last year. As for this argument about him proving his worth in big games, I'm not entirely convinced. For the first 30 minutes of the champos league final he was excellent but he certainly didn't make much of an impression in the second half or extra time. I'm yet to see him skip around defenders with ease when playing the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool or Chelsea. Even looking at the 1-4 loss to Liverpool, if you've got the best player in the world in your team you'd expect him to stand up and be counted. That certainly wasn't the case with Ronaldo that day. I think back to Liverpool losing to Chelsea 1-4 at Anfield about 3 years ago, Stevie G and Jamie Carragher still got their head down and got stuck in. But you know what they say about opinions, everyones got one.

holymoly (Dublin) - Posts: 757 - 07/04/2009 13:23:01    250749

Holymoly -

I cant understand why people persist with the "Ronaldo never does it against the big teams" argument. I just don't see the basis for it? He has scored goals and got assists against Arsenal, Liverpool a Chelsea. In top international finals tournaments (he had a cracking Euro 2004) and scored in the champions league finals. It's perfectly reasonable to undersatnd that he has it easier against WBA or Hull or anyone. All top players do? The next time he scores a goal at the highest level are people going to pretend they didn't see it?

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12439 - 07/04/2009 15:12:19    250900

32_4_1 County: Meath Posts: 158 I take your point about Utd not changing tempo. I think Liverpool benefit from the Anfield crowd in this regard. I think Utd used to play at quick/premiership style for years in Europe, to no success (exc 99 obviously where having Keane Beckham Cole Yorke and others at the pinnacle of their careers and a bit of luck got them through) THey changed the tactics, played a slower tempo and ferguson persisted with what is labelled 4-5-1 to much criticism for 3-4 years. It finally paid dividends last season and isn't doing too bad this season

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12439 - 07/04/2009 15:21:15    250916

Breffni39 County: Cavan Posts: 467 250900 Holymoly - I cant understand why people persist with the "Ronaldo never does it against the big teams" argument. I just don't see the basis for it? He has scored goals and got assists against Arsenal, Liverpool a Chelsea. In top international finals tournaments (he had a cracking Euro 2004) and scored in the champions league finals. It's perfectly reasonable to undersatnd that he has it easier against WBA or Hull or anyone. All top players do? The next time he scores a goal at the highest level are people going to pretend they didn't see it? Breffni, My last post was probably a bit too harsh on ronaldo. Fair enough last year he was absolutley amazing. 42(?) goals and he worked his socks off. Sure do you remember his free kicks against Portsmouth at home in the league and at home to Sporting Lisbon in the C. League...Amazing free kicks. He even done a bit of tracking back. This year he hasn't found the immaculate form that he had from last season, but then again it would be nearly impossible to get near it. I dont know what has happened him this year. Sure he is joint top scorer in the league along with Anelka, even though he missed quite a few games at the start of the season. Is it that we expect too much from him?? I dont know but Gerrard (and to a lesser extent Torres, who has only playing in his 2nd season) can reproduce their form season in, season out. Maybe his heart isnt where it should be. He could have his eyes set on a move to Spain this summer?? I think too much expectation is the problem here though.

Plastic Paddy (Tyrone) - Posts: 664 - 07/04/2009 15:36:53    250946

Breffni39.

I was a bit too harsh on ronaldo with my last post.

I think there is too much expectation on ronaldo too- even though he is best player in the world. Sure the man is joint top scorer in the league along with Anelka, even though he missed quite a few games at the start of the season due to injury and he hasn't been in great form either. It will be almost impossible for him to repeat the form this season, what he done last season. Last season he was amazing. He scored beauties like the free kick against Portsmouth in the league and the free kick against Sporting Lisbon in C. League. He tracked back and worked hard for the team. This year he hasnt being doing that.
I dont think his heart is with the club anymore. I think he has his eyes set on a move to Spain in the summer...

Plastic Paddy (Tyrone) - Posts: 664 - 07/04/2009 16:08:18    251013

patrique us irish people as a nation are like sheep we want to believe the media hype we dont want facts they are to confusing , as for veron as soon as he finished training he got a jet back to italy to be with his family and he would head back late that night now thats commitment nice work if you can get it

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 07/04/2009 20:43:06    251310

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 757

250637
patrique i dont know where you get this stuff, ferguson named a squad of players that he thought would be his best ever side, it came to 26 and veron wasnt even in that...


The day Fergie really lost it with the press, quote (more or less) " you know #### all about football, he is a great, great, player, the best we ever had....." more ranting, exit stage left.

Greatest player ever? Brian McClair, scored 45 goals one season. I know Dixie Dean got 60 but defences were better then.

By the way, Brian Clough, 204 goals in 222 matches, Ronaldo, Torres, even McClair, no-one is ever going to reproduce that. So was Clough the best ever?

All the above is in response to the facile "Ronaldo scored 42 goals last year......."

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 07/04/2009 21:43:29    251368

Again thats not true patrique, correcting ur fabrications is getting tiresome... There was no mention of the best ever, he said he was a great player and that the journos were idiots, nothing about the best ever... Again I underline, he didnt even make his top 26, any chance of you explaining that?
He did say roy keane was his best ever... Why do you keep making stuff up to suit urself? Ur not in Libertas by any chance?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 08/04/2009 11:57:14    251811

Breffni - I honestly can't think of any game other than most of the game against Arsenal this season and the first 30 minutes of the champos league final last year where I thought to myself, there you go, thats why the guy is the best player in the world. I can think of numerous games at the highest levels where the likes of Ronaldinho, Kaka, Zidane, Gerrard, Scholes and Messi have just stood out above all the rest at the highest level. Compare Kaka and Ronaldo in the champos league semi final in 07. United won the first leg but the outstanding player on the night was Kaka as he was in the second leg. You could argue that it depends on the team behind you that allows you to play better but if you are regarded as one of the best players in the world a certain level should always be expected you. Ronaldo spent most of the time during that match moaning about passes that were missed and calls that he wasn't getting from the ref.
Maybe its just me but I would still be of the Roy of the Rovers mindset when it comes to THE best player in the world. That player should be one that would inspire those around him and project all the best things about football in the way he plays the game. For me Ronaldo doesn't do that nearly enough.

holymoly (Dublin) - Posts: 757 - 08/04/2009 12:53:07    251901

Lets hope so cocky ********. they believe their own hype. they have lost two of their last three in the premiership. i think porto can at the very least get a draw from next weeks game. if united are the great team everyone makes them out to be though they will come out of this slump. when your relying on a ponce like ronaldo you havent got much hope.

PK57 (Louth) - Posts: 1664 - 08/04/2009 17:33:51    252271

PK57 County: Louth Posts: 72 252271 Lets hope so cocky ********. they believe their own hype. they have lost two of their last three in the premiership. i think porto can at the very least get a draw from next weeks game. if united are the great team everyone makes them out to be though they will come out of this slump. when your relying on a ponce like ronaldo you havent got much hope. cocky ******** = Premiership, European and World champions and currently top of the premiership with a game in hand ponce = World Player of the Year

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12439 - 08/04/2009 18:04:28    252296

By the way, Brian Clough, 204 goals in 222 matches, Ronaldo, Torres, even McClair, no-one is ever going to reproduce that. So was Clough the best ever?

In the second division. Still an out and out legend though.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12439 - 08/04/2009 18:07:59    252301

holymoly County: Dublin Posts: 697 251901 Breffni - I honestly can't think of any game other than most of the game against Arsenal this season and the first 30 minutes of the champos league final last year where I thought to myself, there you go, thats why the guy is the best player in the world. I can think of numerous games at the highest levels where the likes of Ronaldinho, Kaka, Zidane, Gerrard, Scholes and Messi have just stood out above all the rest at the highest level. Compare Kaka and Ronaldo in the champos league semi final in 07. United won the first leg but the outstanding player on the night was Kaka as he was in the second leg. You could argue that it depends on the team behind you that allows you to play better but if you are regarded as one of the best players in the world a certain level should always be expected you. Ronaldo spent most of the time during that match moaning about passes that were missed and calls that he wasn't getting from the ref. Maybe its just me but I would still be of the Roy of the Rovers mindset when it comes to THE best player in the world. That player should be one that would inspire those around him and project all the best things about football in the way he plays the game. For me Ronaldo doesn't do that nearly enough. All fair points holy. I would say though that the players you mentioned are older and a lot more experienced than Ronaldo bar Messi, who I personally think is the best player in the world. I also think it needs to be said that Ronaldo wasn't voted world player of the year by the readers of the sun newspaper or an internet poll but by the managers and captains of every international team in the world. I'm not sure who voted for who, but the fact that he was a landslide winner suggests Trap, Capello, Lippi, Aragones, Dunga, etc voted for him. They've all forgotten more about football than you or I or anyone else on this board will ever know.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12439 - 08/04/2009 18:15:15    252310

Patrique -

Guy Whittingham scored 42 league goals in one season for Portsmouth in the 90s. I'm sure you'll agree that makes him a better player than Robinho.

I'm making an irrelevant, nonsense point, which will only hamper the discussion at hand, but that seems to be the only means by which you can communicate these days.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12439 - 08/04/2009 18:20:08    252316

the master dont comment on things you dont no about. you have countless mistakes in your arguement. all you seem to know about is english football

arshavin was in a row with hiddink so didnt start the tournament and it was doubtfull he was even going to even go so your wrong.

he stayed at zenit for so long as he is a loyal player and was treated like a god there. not everyones as materialistic and shallow as ronaldo.

over 10 of ronaldos goals came from peno's and he's a strker thats what they are supposed to do. score goals.

messi at 17 was leading argueably the biggest team in the world while ronaldo at 17 was pretty much a nobody. say it all.

zenit have the exact same squad. check fifa wikipedia uefa websites if you dont believe me. if funny how you cant name this so called argentinian they had. and the so called players the retired did not start

van der vaart does get his game as much as anybody there. they rotate a lot but you wouldnt no this as the only real game you probably saw was against liverpool

the season before aimar went there zaragoza were in a relegation battle. he comes and they finich 5th. then he was out for the whole of the next season due to injury which is why valencia sold him- too many injuries

so its only you who talks half truth. infact you dont even no what you are talking about as you only watch english football

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4174 - 08/04/2009 19:39:52    252387

TheMaster County: Mayo Posts: 764 251811 Again thats not true patrique, correcting ur fabrications is getting tiresome... There was no mention of the best ever, he said he was a great player and that the journos were idiots, nothing about the best ever... Again I underline, he didnt even make his top 26, any chance of you explaining that? He did say roy keane was his best ever... Why do you keep making stuff up to suit urself? Ur not in Libertas by any chance? So Veron was his best player then. Fergie hasn't told the truth for twenty years, bar the day he completely lost it with the journos and named Veron. Roy Keane a better player than Veron. "We dominated Liverpool, played them off the park" "we haven't tapped up 47 players in the last few years, we didn't sign Maceda's entiore family" Does he ever tell the truth? Saying things to motivate players is one thing, but you are not supposed to take it seriously. The players might, but not the public.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 08/04/2009 23:05:11    252610