Before introduction of Transition Year, southern schools were at an age disadvantage. Since six-year cycle has come in, the age profile has been raised and Macartan's, Monaghan, and Eunan's, Letterkenny, have retuned to the MacRory Cup fold. Can't explain why Pat's Cavan - which has a great football tradition - has not stepped up. Maybe the poor state of senior county team influences the standard of school football and not the other way about. That still doesn't explain why St Mary's Belfast are back though, does it? Discuss

Borderboy (Monaghan) - Posts: 277 - 05/03/2009 15:04:59    224785

Borderboy What are you talking about poor state of county...look at the leinster A champs Edenderry there a school from Offaly and look at how bad the current Offaly senior footballers are!!!!its also only Edenderrys second year and they won it...Great achievement if ya ask me...And from what im told they are pushing very hard to go all the way...and i sincerely hope they do.Would be great to break the tradition!!!

collegeboy (Offaly) - Posts: 69 - 05/03/2009 17:11:40    224901

I dont think they have a transition year in St Pats Cavan so that would explain that. Virginia ahve recently won All Ireland Vocational titles so there is some quality coming through in Cavan. Whether that will translate to county senior, i dont know.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12359 - 05/03/2009 18:01:17    224962

Don't think Pat's have transition year and if they do, it's optional i'd say. State of the county team has nought to do with it, plenty of schools from counties that weren't winning senior titles were winning colleges titles. Eunan's have only re emerged thanks to Michael Murphy, i don't know how long they will stay in the MacRory after he leaves.

hughoreilly (Cavan) - Posts: 95 - 05/03/2009 18:24:26    224981

hughoreilly County: Cavan Posts: 32 224718 I think it's U19 for the MacRory Cup but i remember hearing that some players from an Ulster school that played in the MacRory final couldn't play in the Hogan Cup Semis or Final because they were overage for it as it was U18 and a half. Not sure if this is true or if it was BS... The age limit is different. In 1986 St Mary's won the MacRory but felt theyt were too old for the Hogan, so St Colman's entered that as the runners up. Obviously they won it. In days of yore the boarding schools dominated, St Pat's Armagh and Cavan, and St Colman's. In the late 1970s Pat's Maghera emerged, and in the last ten years Tyrone colleges. St Michael's Enniskillen also have a proud history. Alas in the hurling counterpart, St Mary's used to win every year at the start, but now there are a few Antrim schools and Pat's Maghera competing.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 05/03/2009 18:32:17    224990

I think all the lads in schools across the border were kept back for a year !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 05/03/2009 19:04:26    225022

st.pats cavan only introduced transition year last year so they've been at a disadvantage for the last few years. they did manage to beat omagh this year in the group stages but next year they will hopefully be more compeitive with 5 or 6 from the county minor team being available

breakin_ball (Cavan) - Posts: 35 - 05/03/2009 19:21:59    225037

There's plenty of talent coming through in cavan. I saw their deveopment squads competing over the last few years and i can remeber a huge lad with red hair playing midfield, outstanding. There was a remarkable CHB called Enda Brady i think. Cavan were the only county really competing with Tyrone and Armagh at that level. The other counties were nowhere. Derry had one or two individuals but still weren't strong enough over all. I think tyrone and Armagh will continue to dominate ulster for the next decade with cavan emerging as contenders in next 4/5 years.
Cavan also wear grey jerseys at development level, armagh white- possible psychology to make the youngsters earn their county jersey?

bigbongo (Tyrone) - Posts: 50 - 07/03/2009 10:00:13    226450

Biobongo, some might find it hard to believe but the Antrim u16 development squad of two years ago (which will probably make up the bulk of this year's minors) played Amragh that year twice and either drew once and were beat once or won one and got beat in one. Apart from Tyrone (who beat them heavily in their first game) they recorded victories over all the other counties they played at some stage during 2007.
I heard about that physchology thing you were talking about aswell. I think Cavan wear a different colour each year at development squad to get them to try and earn the senior jersey. Good idea.

Saffron (Antrim) - Posts: 216 - 07/03/2009 17:39:50    226632

Sorry to burst your bubble Saffron but the behaviour of the antrim lads at such blitzes is usually disgraceful. I remember talking to one of their coaches who wasn't from Belfast and he was suffering dogs abuse at the hands of some of the players. The language was attrocious and they were more interested in abusing the lads from outside the city- their own team mates, than competing. One guy who was in charge of the team had never kicked a ball in his life- I know, I was at uni with him. Something seriously wrong with the antrim youth policy. Don't be fooled by the St Mary's flash in the pan thing. You guys are inthe doldrums for years to come.

bigbongo (Tyrone) - Posts: 50 - 09/03/2009 14:44:51    228022

Congrats to St Pat's Dungannon, although I was shouting for Omagh for personal reasons, not to mention half of St Pat's are Armagh men, so I was supporting the Tyrone school.

Joking apart, CBS alumni have to stick together and back in 1971 when the GAA wouldn't let us play the MacRory semi on a GAA pitch, Omagh CBS came to the rescue and we used their pitch.

Doubtless, forgetting the Armagh men, Tyrone should be able to build again from these teams.

Mind you back in 1971 our school won the Hogan and the vocational schools were beaten by a point in their final. Antrim lost in the first round in Ulster that year.

Of course at our school in Belfast the besst player was, yes, an Armagh man.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 17/03/2009 15:39:17    233745

Patrique
Is that your school (ex Hogan winners) who were playing in the schools soccer final today?

BIG SACKS (Tyrone) - Posts: 1681 - 17/03/2009 19:12:50    233802

Well done LADS proud of you! never let you heads drop took total commitment and composure to hold CBS at halftime, Yes some great displays on both teams and yes the Armagh lads contributed to a great game some future for both counties also well done St Pius's Magherafelt

fortyfive (Tyrone) - Posts: 5929 - 17/03/2009 20:14:39    233834

Firrstly Biobongo I can only comment on what I have witnessed which was that u16 Antrim squad that make up the bulk of the minor squad now. They were a very good team who were well-disciplined and beat most of the Ulster counties and I said this well before St. Mary's did well in the McCrory Cup. I don't know about the coaches who were taking the team you were talking about or the team and if they are acting like that they are a disgrace. At u14 and u15 Antrim field two development teams, a South Antrim (which is Belfast) team and a South West Antrim (rural) team. It could have well been that the Belfast team was abusing the country lads which if it happened is an absolute scabdal which shouldn't be tolerated.

Saffron (Antrim) - Posts: 216 - 17/03/2009 22:00:59    233887

That's was St. Malachy's College in the soccer by the way. They too used to compete at McCrory but basketball and athletics have taken over the PE department. They have massive potenial though and if they got someone like Ciaran Gourley in to work in the PE office that would be a big step forward.

Saffron (Antrim) - Posts: 216 - 17/03/2009 22:04:41    233888

Thank you Saffron.

My school was St Mary's CBS, we beat St Malachy's in that semi in Omagh, played there due to Martin O'Neill playing fopr Malachy's. Malachy's had been beaten in the final of the Hogan the year before, losing to a disputed goal in the 23rd minute of extra time. I think they were about 7 points up at the end of normal time.

I did actually teach in St Malachy's for a while.

This year Antrim had St Mary's and Rathmore were in the McLarnon semi, but I doubt if they will build on it. In 1971 with all those players to pick from I was confident of an easy all Ireland, but went out in Ulster in the first round, with most of the stars not playing. About 6 of them played railway cup football afterwards, a rarity for Antrim. One of them, J.P O'Kane also went on to play for Louth and Leinster.

They redeemed themselves in 1974 when losing a replayed U21 all Ireland final, mainly because Gerry Armstrong went to England. They also won Ulster again in 1975 at U21 beating a top Tyrone team both times, McKenna, McGuigan and all. Then they disappeared.

So I suspect lack of interest in inter county football will hold back the current crop.

But then, you can't totally dominate all of the games in Ulster, all of the time. Haven't done that for years.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 18/03/2009 02:13:31    233959

Of course at our school in Belfast the besst player was, yes, an Armagh man.


Who was that Patrique?

samin10 (Armagh) - Posts: 2434 - 18/03/2009 10:05:53    233995

Frank Toman, from Lurgan, a colleges legend. Won the Hogan with St Colman's in 1967 and with St Mary's in 1971. No idea what age he was when playing for Colman's, but up there with Iggy Jones and the like at Colleges level.

I know he came on as a sub in the 1977 final against the Dubs, but alas Frank succumbed to the perils of life by that stage, and the troubles.

He is alive and well and will never be forgotten as a colleges player.

In 1971 St Colman's regretted letting him go as Frank scored 3-6 from play against them in Newry as St Mary's beat them by a ridiculous score of 9 goals something to about 1-6.

There but for the grace of God and all that......but Frank lives on as a colleges legend.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 18/03/2009 13:47:57    234127

While Gourley has done well at St. Pat's the main man behind the recent is success is Pete Herron. Back to back Hogan Cups would be some achievement

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 18/03/2009 16:24:55    234249

Gourley is the man behind the success. Great man .

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 18/03/2009 19:23:33    234371