Ok first of all. This thread refers to a letter in todays Irish News(20th Feb 09) by someone calling himself 'Ulsterman'... Could this be the same as the one that frequents HS??? All the better for the debate if it is!

Anyway. The basic premise of the letter is that it appears that our beloved GAA has traded promotion of our native tongue for 'God save the queen'.

He points out that traditionally, it has been that promotion of native sports and native tongue went hand in hand. He says Michael Cusack, a Gaelgóir, would surely agree with this multi dimensional aspect! He refers to Rev T Maguire PP in Fermanagh who said the GAA ''was[nt] foolish enough to believe that they were adequately serving the national cause merely by promoting games''. All true of course.

However, he goes on to refer in agreement with journalist Patrick Murphy who wrote that playing 'God save the queen' and the ''handy money'' that came with it represented the GAA acknowledging its sin of being Irish. In other words, it is argued that the GAA has sold itself, whimped out, sold out and turned its back on the greater cultural good that it has a duty to promote and serve.

This is an interesting debate and Before anyone says...''Yeh yeh another opening Croke Park thread'', please think about it. Thats not what this discussion is. It has to do with the GAA as promoter of Irish culture and language v. the GAA as a modern business. Does the GAA still care about language? Should it care? Has it really turned a new path?

Please give thoughts and opinions. Ill give mine later. Ba mhaith liom tuairimí a fháil ó na nGaeligóirí eile ar an tsuíomh seo go háirithe...as Gaeilge mar is feidir libh (táim ag iarradh an caighdeán Gaeilge anseo a fheiceáil freisin)

spudenator (Laois) - Posts: 1052 - 20/02/2009 21:42:23    213969

I have been to the Inter club quiz for the last two years, which is conducted in Irish.

Last year in Eglish in the Ulster final we may as well have travelled in a De Lorean car, because you could have been back in the 1950s.

In this year's Antrim final at Casement Park, it was straight, ask the questions, get them out before the regulars notice. No breaks, no hospitality, no craic, as though having language in the place was an affront.

So alas they do not do a lot to promote the language, but then who in Ireland does?

As for the bloke who wrote the article about "God save the Queen", well he is living in the 1950s, doesn't need a De Lorean.

What a prat.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 20/02/2009 22:40:52    214041

Yeh I agree Patrique. I think the multi -dimensional cultural promotion aspect is gone out of the organisation...sadly! But ur mans argument is fairly far removed from reality. He could have had a good point in their somewhere, but lost me with the God save the Queen bit..! It is true that theres nothing more than lip service being payed to the role of the language in the GAA nowadays.

spudenator (Laois) - Posts: 1052 - 20/02/2009 23:14:31    214079

is brea liom an lu agus is fuaith liom an mhi.

OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 20/02/2009 23:54:33    214112

patrique
County: Antrim

So alas they do not do a lot to promote the language, but then who in Ireland does?

In fairness alot of folk out there break there backs for the language. Alot more speak it quite actively and promote it now and again (myself included). Maybe not so much in the North, although I know a few people up here who are gettin the language movement into gear, but the last 10 years have seen the language become cool amongst teenagers in the South and its enjoying quite a decent resurgance. Its far from the ''dead'' language that so many people here in Belfast seem to be telling me it is! Methinks the GAA might just have missed the boat on this if they have turned their backs on language promotion...

spudenator (Laois) - Posts: 1052 - 21/02/2009 00:05:33    214121

If you think using words like An tUachtaran and giving out fixtures lists that read like this:
Division 1
An Lu v An Iarmhi Drogheda 2pm
Maigh Eo v Coracaigh Gaillaimh 2pm

and requiring team lists be written in a hackneyed thrown together irish is the way to promote the language then your well confused.

leave promoting the language up to those that care about the language. the common GAA member doesn't care about the irish language

wingwonder (UK) - Posts: 535 - 21/02/2009 03:05:42    214161

I remember the first time I played football, myself and a few friends were approached and asked to play football. Dreams of stardom soon vanished when we landed at a field in Glengormley and were handed a big heavy ball. It was not the kind of football I knew of and my pair of wizz kids were not going to cut it, but what did make an impression on me was when they wrote my name in Irish on the teamsheet. It gave me a sense of identity and of where I came from. Unfortunately my Irish is still pretty bad, but so was my football, but never again was I corrupted by what society dripfeeds our kids and takes away their identity. I owe that to the GAA.

cornerboy (Antrim) - Posts: 2 - 21/02/2009 10:12:21    214186

Spudenator - an bhfuil tú ag magadh le seo: "Alot more speak it quite actively and promote it now and again (myself included). Maybe not so much in the North..."?? Níl tú i ndáiríre?? Tá an meid suim sa teanga i mBeal Feirste na aít ar bith eile ar an oilean seo (agus tá grupaí substantiúil ann, mar phrotastunaigh, nach mbíonn aon suim acu de ghnáth). Chaith mé cuid mhaith am i mBaile Atha Cliath, Loch Garman, Cill Mhantain Tiobraid Arann, agus aíteanna eile mar cathair Gaillimh (is ea, Gaillimh), agus ni fhaca mé morán suim no meas sa teanga ag daoine ansin.
Le 30 mbliana anuas, tá a lán obair deanta ag gaeligóirí mBeal Feirste chun an teanga a chuir chun chinn. Bunadh gaeilscoileanna ar fud na sé chontae, gan tacaíocht ón Roinn Oideachas, nó an rialtas ar scor ar bith (ach ar na mallaibh). Bhí an obair seo deanta ag grupaí aítiúla. Thug an GAA cuidiu do na grupaí sin.

Supporting the Irish language should remain part of the GAAs ethos, but other groups take a lead role in that work - no one asks them to support the GAA.

pearsesabu (Antrim) - Posts: 663 - 21/02/2009 13:13:50    214252

Spud, as Pearses indicates I also thought that the language was flourishing more in the North than in the south. There are numerous Bun scoils, a Gaeltacht area on Shaw's Road, and loads of jobs on offer for Irish speakers.

Perhaps I am influenced by my father who always decried the hypocrisy of the Government in the south allegedly attempting to spread the language, and asking for language qualifications for many jobs, when all the business was carried out in English. Hios idea was "Want to spread Irish, ban English. That's what the English did, and it works".

A bit extreme I concede but I could see where he was coming from.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 21/02/2009 13:46:55    214274

Pearse. Nílim ag magadh ar chor ar bith. Má léinn tú mo thrácht arís.. ní raibh mé ach ag chur CEIST ar daoine ón dTuaischeart. Dúirt mé ''maybe not so much in the North...??'' Question marks!!! Táim i mo chonaí i mBéal Féirste le mbliain anuas agus táim ag múnadh an teanga mar saorálaí do dhaoine óige i mBaile Uí Mhurchú agus timpeall Bóthar na bhFál. Feicim gach lá go bhfuil an-obair déanta sa chathair seo. Nílim a rá nach bhfuil!

Áfach...muna raibh tú in ann Gaeilgóirí a fháil i gcathair na Gaillimhe...Bhuel...níl fhios agam i gcén áit sa chathair a bhí tú ann. Tá an teanga beo sa chathair sin.

Look lads fair play. I see Irish promoted in Belfast first hand so I dont need to be told about that. But I think YER perception of it ''dying'' in the South or yerselves having taken over as the real promoters of the mother tongue is far from reality. Ive never seen it so good as it is down here at the moment...even in my home county which as youd imagine, was never a stronghold. But for once...can me maybe work together on this one and not be so partisan???

Oh and thats a great story cornerboy...thats exactly why the language the sport and other elements of our culture should go hand in hand and one should bring on the other.

spudenator (Laois) - Posts: 1052 - 21/02/2009 15:46:56    214307

Ní dhéanann an CLG mórán chun an teanga a spreagadh ach cad a féidir leo déanamh? An t-aon bealach go bhfuil an teanga chun scaipeadh ná má labharann daoine Gaeilge le chéile sa bhaile. An t-aon rud a féidir liom smaoineamh air ná na cúl camps a rith as Gaeilge.

Tá daoine óíge ag labhairt i bhad níos mó Gaeilge anois ná a bhí blianta ó shin. Ceapaim an cúis le sin ná go bhfuil a lán Gaelscoileanna atá tar éis oscailt ar fud an tír. Bhí mé suas i mBéal Feiriste agus tá a lán meas agam ar na ndaoine atá ag déanamh iarracht an teanga a spreagadh ann.

Ar.an.talamh (Kildare) - Posts: 320 - 21/02/2009 19:58:05    214452

Spudenator - you're going to have to lay your cards on the table here. I presume you're living in West Belfast and have been on the receiving end of a few lectures about the promotion of Irish - and how there is nothing done in Ireland outside West Belfast (there are a few gaeilgóirí in West Belfast who think like that). I'm from North Belfast so if that's the case it doesn't bother me at all. At the same time - you are equally unlikely to hear Irish on the streets of Belfast, Galway, Cork or Dublin. In most cases you need to know what events are on and it, by association with particular forms of cultural activity (whether it is GAA, trad music etc) a lot of gaeilgóirí have tended to ghettoize the language.
I'm writing this in English so non-gaeilgóirí can contribute too.

pearsesabu (Antrim) - Posts: 663 - 21/02/2009 20:01:02    214454

Sorry - I meant to add this - would there be an interest in a Gaeilgóirí thread? There is a non-GAA thread and a proliferation of threads debating the wonders/horror of Tyrone winning All-Irelands, a strong line in 'how wonderful are Kerry' threads, campaigns to canonise Ciaran Whelan, and, nearly every second thread is about Frank Murphy, sorry, Cork. Would there be takers for 'An HS Snáth'? House rules would either be Gaeilge only (with tolerance for poor spelling and some Bearla), or, bilingual posts?

pearsesabu (Antrim) - Posts: 663 - 21/02/2009 20:16:02    214471

To be honest Pearses I've heard a few teenagers speakin Irish on the bus/train/take away in Dublin but I agree with ur point that people have to go to events to speak the language. I heard recently that one of the recent Cork managers (Donal O'G or John Allen) possibly used to direct training sessions thru irish...this sort of thing is a positive step. The GAA need to use Seán Óg, Dara Ó Sé and Seán Óg de Paor to promote the language. I láthair na huaire ní dhéanann siad faic...

Ar.an.talamh (Kildare) - Posts: 320 - 21/02/2009 20:29:42    214479

Cloisim tusa,ceapaim go bhfuil pointe agat. Ní fheicim aon iarract a dheanamh i mo chlub féin chun gaeilge a labhairt,agus níl aon duine buartha leis. Níl me cainteoir an-mhaith,ach is aobhinn liom an teanga,ar dteanga, agus is aobhinn liom ar gcluchí freisin. Cén fáth nach bhfuil an teanaga a usaid i cluich ón U-10 leibheal,bhféidir déanfaidh clubs ranganna gaeilge a fháil do na imreoirí oíge, ach ní tharloídh sin ar ní cuirimid an obair anois, in ar gclubs ar fud na tíre.

Drumkeerinman93 (Leitrim) - Posts: 28 - 21/02/2009 20:36:53    214487

Pearseabu im living in South Belfast but volunteer teaching Irish in west Belf through SVP. And no-one there has said anything to me along the lines of ''leave it t'us Norners gettin the jab done praperly''. Thats not what I was saying. I just took from what Patrique said and I quote: ''I also thought that the language was flourishing more in the North than in the south. There are numerous Bun scoils, a Gaeltacht area on Shaw's Road, and loads of jobs on offer for Irish speakers.''

and what you said: Níl tú i ndáiríre?? Tá an meid suim sa teanga i mBeal Feirste na aít ar bith eile ar an oilean seo

I think ye both made it fairly clear that yerselves, UNLIKE my co-volunteers in West Belfast, thought for some reason that ye were makin a better go of it up here than we are down South. I would like to point out that in Carlow town for example in the last 2 years a Gaeilscoil and a secondary Gaelcolaiste have both tripled in size and have the best facilities of any local school, adult Irish classes are teeming, we have Irish used frequently on local radio and I could name scores of young people in my locality in Laois who went on post Leaving Cert to further improve their fluency. Its not enough but the same efforts are being made from Belfast to Bantry.

That said. I would prefer not to make this a North v. South competitive thing for once. I see the work done up here first hand and its fantastic. I love seein people like yerself using the language and I didnt take any pleasure in seeing 'Lá' go under, even though its Southern equivalent is flyin off the shelves. I would prefer if language promo didnt recognise the border. Of course to return to the original point...the most successful cross border organisation, the GAA, could really help in this regard but appears to slowly but surley turnin its back on language promotion!

spudenator (Laois) - Posts: 1052 - 21/02/2009 21:02:02    214501

Spud, sorry if I gave that impression, it was not intended, you may note I try to avoid North V South debates on here. I was just making the point that Irish, to a degree, is doing well enough here.

However, as Pearses stated, the Gaelgóirí with their "we are the super race" attitude do not help, and is one of the main reasons why I cannot write in Irish, and indeed lost a lot of the language. They actually managed to alienate me.

Ladies Golf are now introducing a rule that competitors must be able to speak English (sic). Maybe the GAA should do the same with Irish LOL.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 21/02/2009 21:33:41    214516

I think the biggest problem that the GAA has promoting the Irish language is that many young members have an in-built resistance to Irish as a result of how it is taught in Irish schools (in the South at least).
Irish is rammed down our throats in schools. There is no effort made to make it appealling to young people in any way. The emphasis should be on learing to speak the language. Instead, after a few years of learning off some all purpose phrases, and the irregular verbs, suddenly school children are expected to be fluent, and the emphasis switches to peoms, plays and novels.
Surely the aim of teaching Irish should be to produce students who are fluent in the language, not a generation who resent the language to such a degree as to urinate on the grave of a well-known Irish writer from the Blaskets (as a lad I know once did).

black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 21/02/2009 21:56:45    214529

Sorry Spudenator - to be honest, I just took you up wrong. I've lived in the republic for 10-12 years and been exposed to a quite high levels of ignorance about the North and was too quick to assume you were commenting on the same basis (e.g. my three favourites: 'How come you have an Irish surname?' - that was from a Garda - as it turned out, with the same bloody surname; 'Did you go to school in Ireland?' - actually meaning the Republic of Ireland, just because I spoke Irish fluently - asked by various people; 'How long have you been in Ireland' - again meaning the republic, another geographically-challenged traffic Garda who, on being corrected wasn't very appreciative of the opportunity to engage in lifelong learning - you get the idea). Hence I can be quite touchy. Mar sin de, tá mo fhreagra as chomhtéacs - tá brón orm.

pearsesabu (Antrim) - Posts: 663 - 21/02/2009 23:23:09    214580

No bother Patrique. My apologies, I misunderstood I think! Im so glad to see whats goin on up here to be honest and I thought it was great when the Shaws Rd/Falls area Gaeltacht was established. But theres alot going on across the island these days. Ya still have to scratch the surface sadly, but alot of people, especially young people dont see it as a chore to learn anymore. I just want to stress that the GAA could really take a lead role in furthering this promotion. I know they dont have any duty as a sporting organisation but they do it with some success with music with Scór and all that stuff so I think something beyond Irish names on the programmes would be a real start.

Yeh lads Id be on for a Gaelgóirí thread. It would give meself and urselves another chance to use and improve and anyone else who wants to give it a go even at beginners level would be more than welcome and even helped by the more fluent ones.

spudenator (Laois) - Posts: 1052 - 21/02/2009 23:42:23    214588