The Offaly team were far more skillful than either the Clare or Wexford teams. These teams were just super fit and ground down teams with this. Clare didnt score from play in the first half of '95 All-Ireland - am i correct in saying that?

That offaly team were by far the most naturally talented team i've seen in my lifetime. They were born to hurl. And when you hear stories about Ger Loughnane or Liam Griffins legendary training sessions, against stories of Johnny Pikington having pints the night before the All-Ireland and smoking fags at half time, while giving an absolute exhibition in the process, it brighs out jyst what a naturally talented team they were.

Upmost credit to Clare but if your talking skillful teams there is nobody like that offaly team.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 14/01/2009 13:14:44    180142

To be honest I really don't think I need to spout anything on this. There's an unspoken understanding among real hurling people.
banner_boy , 14/01/2009 at 12:42


Yes you had some real ballet artists in Clare alright. Not nice or correct to deride Offaly's hurling skilsters which you have done. Spouting is the word you use and its a good one in the context of your post. Glad to hear that you appear to know 'real hurling people'. You should listen to them, you will surely learn from then.

Dubinmeath (Dublin) - Posts: 1123 - 14/01/2009 13:20:03    180146

Its amazing how many people have got worked up about this thread! I was listening to the documentary about the summer of 98 on radio 1 over Christmas, and when you think of it, they were great days for hurling, with some epic (and notorious) clashes, especially when you compare the fare to the championship in recent years. Hurling outshone the fairly mundane football championships of that time. Granted the current Kilkenny team would have probably beaten the Clares, the Offalys of that era, but it would be great if the Championship could be as competitive again. For what its worth, I think Clare contributed enormously to this period, bringing a certain buzz and excitement that was missing previously, and in typical Irish terms as soon as they reached the summit, all the good will turned to begrudgery soon enough! Ollie Baker came down to coach our club for a few nights last year and he was a true gentleman, Id say it would have been unreal to have hurled in that era. As it was, it was a privelage to have attended most of the matches involving my county and some of the all irelands not involving Offaly.

gianfranco (Offaly) - Posts: 100 - 14/01/2009 13:45:10    180172

Fair enough Dublinmeath, if that's what you think.

Like I said though, I think silence is sometimes golden and I know myself (and I speculate others do too) how far ahead that Clare team was of everybody else (in terms of skill, speed, agility, strength, stamina, EVERYTHING!)

I appreciate other people want to desparetly convince others of their respective county's merits to the point of writing novels on it, but to be honest, i'm happy enough with the silent understanding of hurling folk in general.

banner_boy (Clare) - Posts: 1285 - 14/01/2009 13:59:28    180190

Banner - I think that was a great Clare team and they did wonders for hurling - as did Wexford at the time to a lesser degree and Offaly more so over a longer period. I would take nothing away from the Lohans (Brian one of my favs of all time), Ollie B, Ger, Anthony Daly, Jamesie, Seanie, PJ, etc. Mind you I always thought Clare did brilliantly to win 2 Liams given the paucity of top class forwards in the set-up - a point even you must concede? I think Offaly were a more stylish team thats all - as I say it doesn't add any more weight to their Liam wins than Clare's and tbh if I was in a trench in WW1 I'd rather have the Clare lads with me.

Giafranco - re the begrudgery point - I think a lot of this was caused by Loughnane adopting the Fergie Old Trafford siege mentality - ie everyone hates us. I don't think it was down to Clare winning - everyone was genuinely happy about that - it was more the other stuff that annoyed people and it became more wearying for the neutral as time went on.

Dubinmeath (Dublin) - Posts: 1123 - 14/01/2009 14:48:34    180245

Gianfranco

That is a brilliant post my friend. You are dead right in saying that the hurling championship of that era was outsanding, possibly the best ever. The thing about it was, it was not that KK, Tipp and Cork had gone away completely but other teams rose their own standard. I think we are close to seeing that again. Offaly are making progress again, as are Clare, Dublin and Tipperary. KK are still ahaed but they will not be out there for ever. They will be caught.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 14/01/2009 16:10:57    180349

when u are comparing the MSHC to the LSHC of the time ithink u forget Leinster had as many teams wining AIs as Munster in the 90s,Leinster was as compeditive if not more so than munster at the time

theduck (Down) - Posts: 48 - 14/01/2009 17:49:29    180453

14/01/2009 12:42:54
banner_boy
County: Clare
Posts: 767

180116


To be honest I really don't think I need to spout anything on this. There's an unspoken understanding among real hurling people.

There is indeed. Most hurling folk reckon Offaly in the 90s were one of the most skilful teams ever.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 14/01/2009 18:27:22    180492

Fair point, the duck.

However, while Leisnter and Munster had both the same amount of All-Ireland winners, there were still more counties competing for the Munster championship. Just becasue Limerick narrowly lost out on two occasions does not mean that they were a million miles behind the counties that do win it.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 14/01/2009 19:27:27    180534

The opening post on this thread says it all, Offaly got less media coverage because they were considered to be "old hands" and Clare were new, and Ger was the media's dream.

In 1995 Offaly won "their" All Ireland when they beat a rejuvenated Kilkenny in the Leinster final. These two were considered to be the two best sides in the country, in July 1995, and Kilkenny were favourites. Offaly gave a wonderful display, destroyed the Cats. That "complete" display from Offaly that day has only been bettered once since then, by Kilkenny in last year's final.

I believe the Offaly players then took their eye of the ball. Who had they left to beat, Down (sic) and Clare. Well that shouldn't be a problem. So a stroll past Down, which turned out to be an awkward game with Offaly looking sluggish, and on to face Clare, the SURPRISE team of the year. To their credit Clare battled to the end against a disjointed Offaly and snatched victory with a late goal. Fair play, but most "experts" couldn't believe that Offaly had lost.

In 1997 Clare pipped Tipperary in the final, a bad miss by John Leahy being decisive. Eugene O'Neill, a young full forward, exploited Clare's weakness at full back and was rampant. The Tipperary management team obviously noticed another teenager, Eugene Cloonan, torment that same full back in the club final that year. But Clare, fair play, held on and won.

So a limited team ground out two successes, fair play. They had a wonderful half back line, Lynch was a marvellous hurler, and for a few seasons Jamsie burned brightly. But Offaly had a superior team, in my opinion, and an awful lot of more natural hurlers playing for them.

In 2000 Offaly decided to have a final stand and were outstanding in winning the semi against hot favourites and defending champs Cork. In the final DJ, who according to media myth has never played well in a final, destroyed them in 15 minutes.

But I think that Offaly teams fitting epitaph was that win over Cork. This team seemed to have it all when they decided to turn it on. Between the Leinster final of 95 and that Cork game, Offaly gave two of the best displays I have seen in 45 years of watching the game. And both times I believe they were simply motivated to prove the experts wrong, because the players felt they did not get the recognition they deserved. That Offaly team believed they were the best, and every now and again decided to prove it.

To be honest I still believe Kilkenny 1992/93 would certainly have beaten Clare, and possibly Offaly as well. So I selected a team from Clare/Offaly to face the cats.

Davy Fitz.

Simon Whelehan Kinahan Hanamy

Brian Whelehan McMahon Daly (just about)

Pilkington Lynch

Johnny Dooley John Troy Duignan

Jamsie O'Connor Sparrow Joe Dooley


That's 9 from Offaly, 6 from Clare.

To conclude, thanks to Clare for adding something to the decade, but that was it. Much of their reputation was due to the fact that they were new, and Ger generated headlines.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 14/01/2009 19:56:44    180544

patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 1688

Mr Patrique from County Antrim you really are a beacon of hope for the whole of Offaly, you just seem like such a passionate fan of hurling and especially Offaly, what about your own county??????? Antrim?????? You any stories off all Ireland glory yourself???????? You may say the same to me.but hey Im a Tip fella living in Fermanagh, parents from Kilkenny and Clare, now that's messed up, I know..But I consider myself a Tipp man and as a Tipperary man an a lover of the game of Hurling while I respect your opinions as everyone is entitled to an opinion, I hold it in NO REGARD..YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT SOMETINGS AND WRONG ABOUT OTHERS..CLARE WERE FANTASTIC..SO WERE OFFALY, BUT CLARE JUST SHADE IT. The thing is you claim to be a hurling man but you discredit Brian Lohan of all people!!!!!!!!!! For the love of god he had one or two bad games his whole career.I mean you mention the All Ireland final against Tipp and the young fella had a decent game on Brian Lohan.yeah ok.but Clare still won, the other Clare lads dug deep and got him out of a hole for once instead of him doing it the other way, which I can so often remember him doing...BRIAN LOHAN WAS ONE OF THE GREATEST FULL BACKS IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME..ONE OR TWO BAD GAMES EVER..FACTS ARE OFFALY AND CLARE WERE CLASS SIDES..ANTRIM..LETS NOT GO THERE..SO TAKE YOUR 1688 POSTED OPINIONS ELSE WHERE..

FAIR PLAY TO OFFALY..A SAVAGE SIDE.

IrishRover (Fermanagh) - Posts: 488 - 15/01/2009 14:51:35    181244

Question - is "skill" something that only forwards are allowed have?? Is there no such thing as as a skillful defender, gaolie or even midfielder??

Fair enough so.

banner_boy (Clare) - Posts: 1285 - 15/01/2009 16:06:03    181378

Dear oh dear, Irish rover, what brought that on?

Brian Lohan, about the 5th best full back in the 1990s, about the 125th best ever. In my humble opinion.

And Banner Boy, defenders can be skilful. Did you ever see Pat McDonnell of Cpork or Conor Hayes of Galway or Pat Dwyer of Kilkenny playing full back? Loads of skill. Even recently, "The Rock" was a very skilful full back.

And despite his ability at mixing it, so was Kinahan.

Lohan was inspirational at times, but I never thought him a great hurler.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 15/01/2009 20:14:55    181736

Just out of curiosity, what have ANTRIM got to do with a discussion on Clare and Offaly hurling teams of the 1990s, apart from the tenuous link I already mentioned in that the bookies had Antrim favourites to beat Clare in 1994?

The beauty of being a hurling fan, Irish Rover, is that you value and support the game, rather than a team. Hence my attendance at Al;l Ireland, Leinster and Munster hurling finals.

Real hurling fans will know what I mean.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 15/01/2009 20:18:27    181742

Lohan was inspirational at times, but I never thought him a great hurler.

oh dear.......

mossbags (Galway) - Posts: 1089 - 15/01/2009 21:29:19    181797

Mossbags, from Galway? Did you ever see Conor Hayes?

Lohan "stood out" because he had to push the ball out, fight off the opposition, before lifting the ball, surging clear and delivering a long clearance.

The like of O'Sullivan could do that in one swift movement, due to his first touch.

That's why I say "inspirational" and not a great hurler. Like Big Dan the Man, or closer to home, our own Ciaran Barr. Barr was far from one of Antrim's great hurlers, but he was well up in their great players. Inspirational again, rather than a pure hurler.

But real hurling fans are hard to please.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 15/01/2009 22:48:21    181880

Played alongside Mr. Hayes my dear Patrique. Guaranteed if you told him Brian Lohan wasn't really a great hurler he wouldn't be too long putting you right. It is possible to be both inspirational and great both at once. Keep it real though Patti

mossbags (Galway) - Posts: 1089 - 16/01/2009 14:28:53    182325

Patrique, after those comments on Brian Lohan, you are now (in Hoganstand terms at least) an irretrievable laughing stock. He's the greatest full-back in living memory, and even Tipp lads (much as they hate us) would admit that. Pure, utter skill & class.

banner_boy (Clare) - Posts: 1285 - 16/01/2009 14:42:37    182345

You are quite right Partrique from Antrim YOUR OPINION IS VERY HUMBLE..........YOU ARE A JOKE......BRIAN LOHAN WAS THE BEST FULL BACK OF THE 90's and ONE OF THE GREATEST EVER TO PLAY THE GAME........AND THATS COMING FROM A TIPP FELLA.....GO BACK TO ANTRIM HURLING....YOUR LOVE OF THE GAME....WOW YOU ARE FANTASTIC, A REAL HURLING MAN, KNOW ALL ABOUT EVERYTHING......MAYBE YOU COULD DO WITH A FEW CLARE AND OFFALY PLAYERS IN YOUR OWN COUNTY....YOUR A JOKE......BRIAN LOHAN WAS AMAZING.

IrishRover (Fermanagh) - Posts: 488 - 16/01/2009 14:55:51    182363

banner_boy
County: Clare
Posts: 777

182345
Patrique, after those comments on Brian Lohan, you are now (in Hoganstand terms at least) an irretrievable laughing stock. He's the greatest full-back in living memory, and even Tipp lads (much as they hate us) would admit that. Pure, utter skill & class.


Banner Boy, I suggest you read what you submitted to the board, go away and think carefully about it, especially the line "even the Tipp lads" and then consider who is a laughing stock.

Clare folk may have an inferiority complex in regard to Tipp people, Belfast people, perhaps unfortunately at times, do not feel inferior to anyone.

In the 90s at full back, Kinnahan, Dwyer, O'Sullivan, all less showy full backs than Lohan, but got the job done.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 16/01/2009 17:51:06    182547