I was speaking to a friend who is involved with Fintona, he says that the "soccer ban" is a smokescreen for much deeper problems in the club. He says that very much the same men have been involved for two decades and during that time that while things like their pitch development are an obvious success, they have let the on field fortunes of a once proud club slide into the gutter. People in the club are afraid to stand up to them as they are afraid to being intimidated and made outcasts. ---- had tried to challenge the ban in place and has became the latest victim of this group. Others in the past who have tried to bring the club forward have walked away alienated.

Cupid_Stunt (Tyrone) - Posts: 8 - 04/01/2009 11:47:32    172580

Ednasop you never played much (FOOTBALL) just like some of the players you have mentioned! As for the transfers: 1 of them played 10 games in 3 seasons - don't think he well be missed. The pearses club is not in crisis as people r being led to believe by the attention seekers /glory hunters in the papers - so shout up once and 4 all!

pearsesgeal (Tyrone) - Posts: 3 - 04/01/2009 13:03:52    172590

There has been a lot said and printed about Fintona Pearses over the last few weeks. As a senior player for our club, I would like you to take 5 minutes to read the truth about what has being on for years within the club. This is not a soccer issue, this is a commitment issue. Everything I have written below is factual, and everyone on the Reserve and Senior team panels will stand over everything in the post.

"Very few players would play soccer if their team was still involved in the championship or going for promotion/relegation play offs until those games were over". Unfortunately in Fintona this was not the case. In 2002, Fintona played Killyman in a relegation playoff in Dungannon. The day before several of our dual players were away on a bus playing in a soccer cup game. They landed in Dungannon, for what was like a championship final game, stinking of alcohol. Fintona lost that game and were relegated to junior football. In 2006, certain players didn't finish the season and opted to play soccer instead. After being
narrowly defeated to Moortown in the league in 2007, the management asked all the players to make a commitment for the next 4 league games to try and avoid relegation. With 7 league games still to play, and 14 points still up for grab, this was not a big commitment. Unfortunately a few players could not give their commitment to Fintona Pearses and instead opted to play soccer for the remainder of the year. This was the final straw. Add to this, numerous Sundays over the years were dual players gave below par performances because of drinking heavily after their game on the Saturday. When Man United or Liverpool was playing on a Tuesday night, these same players would not be at training. I ask you, is this commitment? Are these the players you would want on your team/panel?
There are now certain players who are now taking their grievances out by running to the papers. They don't seem to realised that with every article published they are losing the respect of the rest of the panel. None of these players have gave anything back to the club over the years, like helping out or coaching underage teams, or helping to steward when Fintona hosts big games. I ask you again, is this commitment?

The issue has not split the club, it has galvanised the remaining committed players. On our first training session of 2008, on a cold wet Friday night, we had 54 men slogging through the muck of our small floodlit pitch. Towards the end of the year at the reserve league cup final against Strabane, we had 15 subs. A game which Fintona won. The smallest number at training has been 30 all year. All this without the boys who play soccer. Not bad for a club in junior football. So I can assure you, Fintona do have the numbers.

My fellow Gaels, this is only the tip of the ice-berg. This has been going on in Fintona for years. The committee has the full support of the remaining players. With plans already in place for a second full size pitch, with floodlights and a running track around it, the future of the GAA looks bright in this parish. I just thought it was about time the rest of Tyrone, and further a field, knew the truth. You can't argue with facts.

garvallagh (Tyrone) - Posts: 3 - 04/01/2009 13:32:12    172595

garvallagh Quote out of the irish daily star "My Father was nominated for the senior job and he was told there were new rules that anybody who plays soccer is ineligible for Fntona pearses in 2008" --------

Tyrone_Geal (Tyrone) - Posts: 11 - 04/01/2009 16:35:09    172633

Great Point Garvallagh - for a club who can apparently not afford to lose 15 'key' players , there was 54 people out at the first training pushing hard with great kamaraderie, but yet i can assure you if those 15 'key' players had have been there , there would have been less that 54 - because many wouldn't have turned up. When the others our there an evident split is apparent, and when do teams ever win with splits? This decision will take time, but success is beckoning. So let the others run to the papers,and earn there bit of cash , it will be fintona making all the right headlines in 09.

pairsaighs (Tyrone) - Posts: 13 - 04/01/2009 17:22:50    172660

Pearsesgeal. Clearly you are new to this forum, here you cannot tell people what they can or cannot talk about. You're reverting to this sort of abusive language shows your lack of understanding of the purpose of these discussion groups. The only player I mentioned anywhere was A Mc Carron so I do not know what you are talking about here. Also you clearly know very little about me either.

I totally respect what Garvallagh has to say. And he has clearly identified the problem. The committee did not need to impose a soccer ban and this problem could have been avoided. I cannot argue with what you say but I feel the committee did not deal with this issue properly. These issues should be discussed within the club and not in forums such as this or through the papers. As far as I am aware the issues you mentioned were never discussed. There was an opportunity to discuss the issue at the AGM but the opportunity was not taken. I have never suggested that the club is in crisis, but if these issues are not addressed soon then there will be crises. As others have suggested what this issue requires is some compromise and diplomacy. There is no chance of that happening at the moment but someone within the club or the County Board should be prepared to mediate on this issue before it does become a real problem.

ednasop (Tyrone) - Posts: 50 - 04/01/2009 17:25:14    172663

Having read through all the comments so far, as a life long Fintona supporter I feel its time for my word.

Both sides of the fence have not covered themselves in glory on this matter. There has been a problem over a number of years involving players in the club who have also played soccer. One poster pointed out that Fintona got relegated in 2007 with the soccer players on board. Remember that half of the division was going to be relegated that year anyway because of the new league system. Also remember that in 2005, these very same players brought Fintona to the brink of Senior football and had they not waited very long for a play-off game against Strabane they might have went up.

What made the whole thing come to blows was the success of Fintona Swifts reaching the Fermanagh and Western Mulhern Cup final in 2007, this came at a crucial time for the Pearses in the league when things weren't going so well and the management had resigned. The crossover between players gave those in the club who are anti soccer, or for that matter anti anything but Gaelic Football, the chance to push their agenda. This got even uglier after a reserve championship semi final win against Urney when a big row took place in the changing rooms because training was clashing with training for the new soccer season.

But as Cupid Stunt has said and what Garvallagh has just backed up, this isn't about soccer. It really is a smokescreen. It's about discipline and power. Some of these dual players were showing scant regard turning up drunk for games but there were others who played soccer on a Saturday, didn't drink and turned up to play Gaelic on a Sunday. They have been given the same boot. I have also seen in the past some players turn up a little worse for wear to games who don't play soccer. Does anyone remember a game a few years ago against Brocagh where most of the senior players, including those who played no soccer, were so drunk from the night before that most of them wouldn't have been allowed by law to drive a car when they stepped out on the pitch?

Garvallagh talks about how the turn out of numbers is not bad for a junior club but maybe he should ask himself why are Fintona only a junior club? Take a look at our neighbouring clubs, Dromore don't need to be explained. Trillick are the holders of the Ulster Intermediate Championship. Eskra, for all the size of the place, are doing well for themselves in Division 2. Augher are the current Junior Champions. Tattyreagh might have got relegated to Division 3 but I think they are in a far healthier state than us right now with their set up. For the size of the area the club covers, the fact that we are playing junior football is a disgrace. The even sadder fact is that our membership numbers are lower than all the clubs I've mentioned.

For all the good ground facilities we have, we have poor teams that call them home. Up until the early 90s most Fintona youth teams could play and beat the likes of Dromore, Omagh, Carrickmore etc. but last year our under 16 team failed to qualify for the knockout stages of the Grade 4 league! We have no youth commitment or policy worth talking about. The promise shown by winning the Grade 2 minor league in 1999 has been wasted badly and we have lost a number of good players where soccer isn't the reason. Think of Jason McMenamin and Gerard McCarroll at least, why did we lose them?

DonacaveyLegend (Tyrone) - Posts: 7 - 04/01/2009 18:10:05    172689

Pearsesgael, your criticism of Ednasop as I assume you know him and I think I know who it is as well but I doubt Ednasop know who you or me are, is out of order. He at least has been brave enough to stand up and be counted against this policy, rightly or wrongly, and has ended up being intimidated and threatened by other members and committee members. The fact that at the AGM, three former players who had been barred from playing last year because of the ban kept quiet and let Ednasop take all the flack did not help him and he ended up being betrayed. Over the last few years Ednasop, if I think it is who it is, has represented the club on the county committee, been part of the team that spent hours of research on the book of the history of the club that was released in 2007, helped publish a monthly newsletter and wrote match reports and took photos for the club website that if you remember won a big GAA award a couple of years ago. Very few people has served the club as much as Ednasop has over the last few years. Maybe he doesn't take any youth teams but how many of our Seniors or Reserve players in our club do either?

Ednasop isn't an attention seeker, he's protesting against the corruption of power that is the real problem in not only your club but my club too and what was previously his club. This seen club teams going backwards, not forwards. There are many questions that need asked about the club but two main men along with their gombeens have up until now managed to quietly get away with it by alienating people in the club both on and off the field to reduce oppostition against them and put fear into others. These same committee men who will always be seen at games standing between the two dugouts who will rarely praise a good performance, but if you make a mistake will call you all the names of the day, useless being one of the few that isn't a swear word.

Players clashing with soccer is or was a problem but it was never the main one. The big problems are why have we not been playing senior football for more that a quarter of a century? Why are our youth teams so poor? What incentive have we given to these Gaelic/soccer players that they should commit to Gaelic? Why have so many good players, coaches and administrators left our club because they feel their voice isn't being respected, that they feel they are being taken advantage of or because they don't feel appreciated for whatever work they put in? Why do the committee deny that this soccer rule doesn't exist when its the worst kept secret in the town?

The real truth is that unless you suck up to the "big two", you're not wanted. Fintona as a place has been badly divided on not the soccer ban, but how it has been implemented. You can't keep alienating people that have a difference of opinion, otherwise where is the support and the funds for the likes of the proposed second full size pitch or future sponsorship for teams and boardings around the current pitch going to come from? Fintona's hardly Beverley Hills when it comes to money.

DonacaveyLegend (Tyrone) - Posts: 7 - 04/01/2009 18:10:54    172690

it isnt a ban but more a show of commitment.
if these boys are so devestated about their 'agony' at not being able to play gaelic and they feel the need for the whole country to know through 'newspapers' - then surely they could quit their soccer.but no.
It's all for attention,as like ednasap is.
How can he say in the local paper Fintona havent been succesful - what do you rate as success?
Mickey Harte spoke at our recent Youth Presentation(at which the clubrooms where packed) about success,here Mickey said 'Success is doing it'. And thats what Fintona our doing, they're doing best by their club and committed players, they're showing a united front.
This year more boys have turned up for training, they finished joint 2nd in the league, players havent been at eachothers after matches or at club get togethers and we managed to keep a management team for the whole season.
To conclude - "Success is not measured by what you accomplish, but by the opposition you have encountered, and the courage with which you have maintained the struggle against overwhelming odds."

pairsaighs (Tyrone) - Posts: 13 - 04/01/2009 18:52:53    172718

best of luck to fintona in 2009

apple_juice (Tyrone) - Posts: 26 - 04/01/2009 19:20:24    172730

As a player for the fintona pearses over this last 10 years I have to totally agree with everything that garvallagh has to say. This isn't about soccer its about commitment. The gaelic game today is getting tougher every year and the commitment to the cause is getting harder and harder. In my opinion this commitment makes the game of Gaelic alive and driving with passion. Why have 4 or 5 players who are not committed to the cause? This totally disrupts the team and management. I would rather have 30 players who are committed to the cause and in result when it comes to a game on Sunday they will wear there jersey on their heart like a true GAA man. I am led to believe by the words of Mickey Harte that every person training has to be on time no matter who they are are? or where they are from ? and also have to be present at all trainings. So in conclusion there's no reason why Fintona's need of commitment is wrong. Every team needs total commitment from every individual and this is why last year was the most enjoyable of all. Let the so called people run to the papers but they are getting nowhere and are loosing the respect of the fellow gaelic community.

In response to UP THE RAGH on their statement saying "very few players would play soccer if their team was still involved in the championship or for promotion/relegation until those games were over and there was nothing to play for only pride"

Well my opinion on that statement above is that this did not happen in the changing rooms in Moortown (2007) where each player was asked by the management for total commitment for the remainder of the games to avoid relegation. Well in conclusion the soccer boys couldn't give that commitment so you (UP THE RAGH) should think before coming out with your so called comment. JUST READ THE TRUE FACTS BY GARVALLAGH and then comment on what your so called meaning to commitment is?

"Ask not what your club can do for you but what you can do for your club"

fintoniantyrone (Tyrone) - Posts: 1 - 04/01/2009 20:35:20    172757

Pairsaighs Do you think it is fair to tell grown adults that the only way you will be allowed to play an amateur club sport at junior level is to give up another activity? Do you think that one of the main men on our committee would have accepted a rule when he was playing for Fintona himself that banned players being selected if they played rugby the day before? Would he hell! I agree that these players should not have run to the newspapers to complain about club policy. They should have asked for a meeting with the committee face to face. But they probably knew it would be no good, after all a few years ago at an AGM the problem of soccer clashing was brought up, one of the players that played soccer spoke up to defend himself when some of the gombeen men took a huff and walked out because they thought "how dare they disagree?" Ednasop at least tried to start debate on this at the right place for at, an AGM, but you know who made sure that this was never going to debated fairly. The GAA is supposed to be a democratic organisation right down to its roots. In my opinion our top table acts like a dictatorship instead of allowing opinions to be heard. If he feels he can't get a fair hearing, what else can he do? I would like to hear it. As for success, well what do you rate as success? I do agree that the large numbers that turned out for training over the year show that the club at least for the short term get plenty of players out. In fact there has rarely been a problem over the years and we have been lucky. But with the global credit crisis, many will leave to go abroad to work like back in the seventies and eighties Also we have a lot of veterans in our senior team and who have we got to replace them? What is our club doing to make sure that many of our minors stay on playing for the senior and reserve teams? A lack of infighting does help the club and I'm glad to see it but why does this have to keep out players who still want to play soccer and still put Fintona Pearses first? That still is commitment. It was good to see Mickey Harte and the McMahons from Omagh at our recent youth presentation, but would you say that the clubrooms were packed because of club loyalty, or because of the guests being there along with the two all ireland cups? If 2008 was a success for Fintona Pearses with the senior (who finished 5th, not joint 2nd), reserve, under 21, minor and under 16 teams all playing in the lowest grade of competition in Tyrone and with only a reserve league shield to show for it, then we are setting our standards for success very low. fintoniantyrone "Ask not what your club can do for you but what you can do for your club" Would you agree that people like Ednasop has done a lot for the club and ended up being threatened and bullied because he had a difference of opinion on one matter? He had nothing to gain himself in challenging this ban.

DonacaveyLegend (Tyrone) - Posts: 7 - 04/01/2009 21:24:30    172769

just because some one plays soccer does not mean theyare not commited to gaelic football

theladddd (Tyrone) - Posts: 85 - 04/01/2009 21:41:30    172779

i think its about time a few home truths were told.... during the 2008 season many of the soccer plays felt it was necessay to come out and cheer on the opposition and snigger and laugh at boys the grew up with over the years.... finally...over this past year various members of the fintona committe and management team has received both verbal and physical abuse from the opposing soccer club....young men at 22 or 23 years of age have physically attacked older members of the GAA club. personally, i think fintona have done the right thing allowing only those fellas wanting to play gaelic and are 100% committed to representing the club wear our club colours. It may take time and commitment but success will come and it will be very much sweet!!

anongael (Tyrone) - Posts: 3 - 05/01/2009 01:03:21    172840

If Aidan Mc Carron has a class season for Eniskillen this year would youe Fintiona men like to see him in the red and white of tyrone in 2010?

BallBhoy (Tyrone) - Posts: 201 - 05/01/2009 11:44:34    172972

Good Luck to Fintona Pearses in 2009 and beyond.

It may take time and it will take effort, but success will come... and it will be sweet when it does.

Yer Man (None) - Posts: 286 - 05/01/2009 12:24:25    173018

Very interesting to read all this stuff. I wouldnt say the club are in crisis. I would say by standing by their decision they are heading in the right direction and when the current players are backing it success will bear fruit!

houserules (Donegal) - Posts: 165 - 05/01/2009 12:42:57    173041

Doncavey Legend , you earlier described your self as a life long fintona supporter, so if they achieved success at division 3 - you wouldnt celebrate?
Wexford never won the all-ireland this year, but they werent a success?

And as regards to the abuse soccer players have received in previous years - bottle calling the kettle black!!!

pairsaighs (Tyrone) - Posts: 13 - 05/01/2009 19:03:23    173447

anongael

'during the 2008 season many of the soccer plays felt it was necessay to come out and cheer on the opposition and snigger and laugh at boys the grew up with over the years....'

So anongael you don't think that any of the 'soccer players' felt betrayed that none of their 'so called' lifelong friends didn't stand up for them when this ban was placed? maybe you should try and think about how that felt. all this discussion about going to the papers, yes it is a bit much but the papers are interested in it for a reason you can't expect grown men to be told what they can and can't do in their spare time. The comittee are to blame for this, they all should be working through any issues and standing together as a team but instead they are making people outcasts for playing another sport. it just doesn't make sense.

kindpit (Tyrone) - Posts: 1 - 05/01/2009 19:35:56    173464

It is very interesting for me to listen to this debate; this is a debate that should have taken place last year when the club initially decided to impose this ban. There are a number of questions I need to ask to some of the contributors. A lot the issues that have been highlighted were never even mentioned at committee meetings. Or perhaps they were discussed at the meetings which most of the people in the club are not privy to. I for one was not aware of most of these dressing room rows! Why was this not discussed before this? Anongael, mentions his being harassed by soccer players in the pubs, this should not be happening and for me reflects the problem in our community. I recall this being mentioned at a club meeting. I also mentioned in the same discussion, that some of my relations have been harassed in local pubs by players from the Pearses club. Both contributions were glossed over and ignored. It should be clear to all now that soccer is not the problem. I personally have drawn up a number of policy documents which if adopted will help to address the issues which have caused these problems. The discipline policy for example, establishes formal mechanisms to deal with discipline and will help to sort out problems now and in the future. An equality policy also needs to be adopted. Those of you who have seen the draft of these policies should by now appreciate how the club policy on soccer is at total variance with this proposal. I have also drawn up a draft business plan for the club which will help guide the club for the next ten years. It sets challenging targets and if all the commitment which is evident through some of the contributions to this discussion can be harnessed then the club has a healthy future. There is however some difficult decisions to be taken and I do not think that some members of the current committee are ready to take these decisions. If however we are all serious about wanting the club to get back into senior football then we need to plan how we are going to get there. Some compromise and diplomacy needs to be exercised before this can take place.

ednasop (Tyrone) - Posts: 50 - 05/01/2009 21:15:29    173514