Great thread P and some great points on it! Whats seldom is wonderful.
JayoCluxton , 03/12/2008 at 22:20
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Patrique - just looking at above and want to clarify that I mean its great so see a good thread on HS with some excellent responses and points made. Reading it again it could be construed that I was referring to you and not general HS. I shouldn't need to clarify cos I think you know I rate your contributions.

JayoCluxton (Dublin) - Posts: 2688 - 04/12/2008 00:09:31    156491

I think Johnny Mc Carthy is a great examle... 24 ... been full back for Limerick for 5 years... played in 3 munster finals... held the Gooch, Masters, Dec O'Sullivan etc scoeless from play in Cship time and time again... widely adknowledged as toghest opponent by many in strong counties... barely even gets an all star nomination... born 10 miles to the east and hed be akerry Legend!!!

S Man (Limerick) - Posts: 229 - 04/12/2008 01:59:15    156514

S Man
County: Limerick
Posts: 119
born 10 miles to the east and hed be akerry Legend!!!

Where was he born? Dingle Bay?

Real Kerry Fan (None) - Posts: 2957 - 04/12/2008 09:52:20    156570

Fantastic thread Patrique.

Great point about Ollie Collins, i have stated before how i feel he would've walked into ANY senior county team in Ireland when he was playing for Derry. I was delighted to see him play against the BIFFOs when we almost beat them in the All Ireland Q/f in 2000.

Also, we have a hurler in Derry at the moment called Mickey Conway, from the Swatragh club. Mickey has been playing for them since moving to the area as an 18 year-old, he captained Antrim minor hurlers before he moved i think, and now he is nearing the end of his career. He has been a great influence to Swatragh and has been at the forefront of their rise from basement boys in Division 2 to 2008 Derry Division 1 League Champions. The side he plays for lose their first ever county final by a goal, in what i feel was Mickeys last chance to get a club championship medal.

He has been consistantly brilliant in Derry for his club, and i know he would love to finish off with a Championship medal with his club, but unfortunately i don't think he will. Right man, wrong club.....although i hope i'm wrong!

Bald Eagle (None) - Posts: 1009 - 04/12/2008 10:01:58    156579

Great post Patrique. Agree 100%.

BIG SACKS (Tyrone) - Posts: 1681 - 04/12/2008 10:32:25    156619

Patrique, very good post (this time !!).

I could list off great Cavan players over the years who never even got to contest an All Ireland Final i.e. Gabriel Kelly, Ray Carolan, Peter Pritchard, Charlie Gallagher right up to Dermot Mc Cabe. Loads of them in my head. The question is how do kerry always manage to get a good team all at once ? Is it training methods, belief, a built in arrogance or superiority complex? Whatever it is it works that they are there or thereabouts every year. !! There are many counties just like Cavan too, with players who nearly make it, but they rarely achieve the Holy Grail in the end !!
Can anyone from Kerry enlighten the rest of us ?

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 04/12/2008 11:28:36    156676

Cavan_Slasher
County: Cavan
Posts: 1176
I think it is belief. Cavan have produced some great players over the years but lack of belief I think was the extra bit needed. Armagh and especially Tyrone have developed that mental strength in recent years. Remember from 1987 to 1996 (10 years
Kerry could hardly get beyond Munster but recovered again. Cavan seem to have fairly good minor and under 21's in recent years so there must be talent in the county.To hold and encourage that talent you must instill belief at an early age. So maybe the structures ( under age upwards)need to be looked at also.Keep the faith.

Real Kerry Fan (None) - Posts: 2957 - 04/12/2008 11:52:41    156694

JayoCluxton
County: Dublin
Posts: 2258

156419 Great thread P and some great points on it! Whats seldom is wonderful.

Great stuff too there Clarity - would love to know who the player you refer to is - I don't think its that great man Cormac Mc, is it?


Jayo, definately not Cormac Mc as he held senior medals (Ulster , League and AI). I too am curious. Enlighten us please Clarity!

Gortnagarn (UK) - Posts: 112 - 04/12/2008 12:22:14    156746

Brilliant post patrique,you are dead right.

ACtribe (Galway) - Posts: 401 - 04/12/2008 12:31:08    156764

What I mean is that if a great player was in a bad team then tough. If a decent player has 2 or 3 all ireland medals and played to get them then fair play to him.
Football is a team game and is not about recognising individual talent. That is what handball, tennis snooker golf is about. One man does not make a team, and a county winning an AI is about 15 (or 20) men winning it.
The players mentioned may or may not have made it at other counties but that is irrelevant.

Great individualism wins you nothing in this sport, therefore the accolades are not forthcoming. Tyrone was full of men from folklore who should've won AI medals until 03, now it is the boys who have won it who are talked about.

Your original post was about is a player any good cause he has a couple of AI medals? Is C Gourley better than Frank McGuigan? No, but he has AI medals, played to get them and deserves his plaudits for doing so as he deserved them.
Frank McGuigan doesnt deserve to have an AI medal because he wasnt part of a team who deserved one. Teams win the championship, like I said above, not individuals.

clearvision (Tyrone) - Posts: 138 - 04/12/2008 12:59:05    156799

Delighted to see Iggy Jones get a mention on these pages. Before Canavan, he was generally acknowledged as Tyrone's greatest ever footballer, ahead of Frank McGuigan and Eugene McKenna.

Iggy was a small man (5ft 5 inches), but very strong, and he had blistering pace. He was known as the master of the solo-run, such was his pace, balance and skill. He represented the Ulster Colleges for 4 years running, which in modern days would be the equivalent of someone getting 4 ulster-colleges all stars from the ages 15-18.

As well as being my old headmaster and a prominant member of Dungannon Thomas Clarke's, Iggy was also a close family friend of yours when I was growing up, and I can say first-hand that he was a gentleman.

While he was described (I think it was by Raymond Smith in his book on the history of our games) as 'pound for pound, and inch for inch, the best footballer I have seen', maybe an even more fitting tribute is that perhaps the greatest footballer of them all, Sean Purcell, travelled up from Galway for his funeral, such was his respect for Iggy. You definitley don'd need an all-ireland medal to be a great.

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 04/12/2008 14:37:51    156871

Stop, please stop, I cannot cope with people saying nice things.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 05/12/2008 00:06:11    157459

Well i've watched the great Peter Canavan and saw Seamus Donaghy at his best, i've played against the great Frank mc guigan, unfortunately i've only heard the great stories about Iggy Jones, but from what i've heard he was awesome, a bit like peter with a bit more speed maybe.

Now in my opionion there's 4 types of players at county level,

1. Gulpins, Still around but will soon be gone.

2. Workers, The majority on most teams. Often confused with skillful players.

3. Skillful players. Brilliant to watch. Cavanan. (Donaghy that's seamus) Mc Guigan. Jones, ECT.

And then there's the other type = very hard to describe. and a scarse commodity

Well my man Dominic Daly belongs in this one, if you see 2 or 3 in your life time you are blessed. its almost impossible to describe them, But you certainly wouldn't want the job of marking one. Now when people describe skillful players they often
say, you know he could beat 3 players in a phone box, but we all know that's not true.

But with Dominic Daly well you just never know, RIP.

clarity (Tyrone) - Posts: 49 - 05/12/2008 20:33:17    158315

WELL SAID PATRIQUE

sons.of.erin (UK) - Posts: 343 - 10/12/2008 17:56:58    161309

Thank you, Son of.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 10/12/2008 23:43:32    161614

PATRIQUE your very welcome,, season of goodwill now,,,,, can u help me find a thread where yourself and the dentist were having a discussion,,,, i need to correct him on a certain matter,,, it was bout two weeks ago that i was reading it....

sons.of.erin (UK) - Posts: 343 - 12/12/2008 13:33:25    163003

The dentist?

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 13/12/2008 01:34:25    163546

danjoe
County: Mayo
Posts: 86

155609 Tyr08
County: Tyronec
Posts: 74

Danjoe, if Mort had of been born in Kerry he would be the waterboy!!!

possibly so. and if canavan was born in kerry as well then he would be cleaning morts boots.

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How so? Canavan was actually a big game player unlike mortimer. His record in AI finals speaks for itself. 11 points against Dublin and of course a goal and a point against kerry that no other players could have scored. And Canavan never proclaimed that tyrone would win nothing without him. Hes not big headed or should i say big haired.

And obviously if Mort was born in kerry he'd be the hairdresser... We wouldnt need him in tyrone because we've got mugsys_barber.

HokeyPokey (Tyrone) - Posts: 1744 - 13/12/2008 18:13:31    163715