HAG_AND_CHEESE, just to respond to a couple of your questions (all of which are valid by the way) - Even with the right man in charge they probably are not good enough to beat Kilkenny. But to say that they haven't a chance of winning an All-Ireland is pushing it a bit I feel.

Now don't get me wrong, there are plenty Cork people who believe we haven't a hope of winning an All-Ireland for at least 10 years so you're not alone in holding that opinion. However, my response to you and to them is this...on their day Cork are good enough to beat anyone (probably bar Kilkenny). They showed as much by beating Galway and also when they outplayed Tipp for the first 25 minutes in the Munster Championship. Now if that alone isn't enough to be considered potential All-Ireland winners then it doesn't say much for the state of hurling. There's always the possibility (remote as it may be) that Kilkenny could be caught by someone else (Galway/Tipp for example) before we even have to play them. So to say that we haven't a hope of winning an All-Ireland even with 'the right man' in charge is going a bit far in my opinion.

At the end of the day the Cork County Board have a responsibility to appoint a manager that provides Cork with the best possible chance of winning the All-Ireland...regardless of how remote that chance may be. Most people (both within Cork and outside Cork) know that Gerald Mc is not 'the right man', but are not saying it due to their eagerness to see the players get their come-uppance.

corkgaafan (Cork) - Posts: 2 - 14/11/2008 15:13:57    141621

Is there any chance at all that we can leave this issue alone now? If the players, CCB, McCarthy, GAA, Kieran Mulvey or whoever can't find a solution to it, I don't think we will either!!!

Can't we all just get along??
Won't someone think of the children!!!!!

holymoly (Dublin) - Posts: 757 - 14/11/2008 15:19:59    141635

Benny, we all have a sob story, and Sean's is as romantic as any other. Do you see hurlers on tv talking about how they came from a single parent family, or how they ate butter sandwiches breakfas dinner and supper til they were 15, or blah blah blah. Eoin Kelly is a good footballer by all accounts, but he has turned his back on it just as Halpin did. The more Halpin talks he detracts from his own legacy which I contend is no greater than a lot of other fellas. To be honest, Im sick of hearing about his views, and at the same time being expected to listen to them and take them as gospel because he is some hurling legend? He is Im sure in his own mind, but not in mine, and this media created status is quite frankly irritating.
I think some of the things he has said this time aren't nice. He doesn't respect Gerald McCarthy, he doesnt respect Cork GAA and he doesnt respect the Cork GAA supporters. At least Donal Cusack and Ben O'Connor have the good grace to be tactful and diplomatic.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2574 - 14/11/2008 21:01:51    141897

Sean Og just got owned by Gerald McCarthy
"I accept that Sean Óg has a very busy life. His substantial commercial interests arising from his Cork hurling career, dealing with his agent, his membership of the GPA, his job with Ulster Bank and his on-off role with Cork, must make it difficult to find time to reflect. If he did find time, then perhaps he wouldn't be flip-flopping around the place and changing his mind about my abilities as a coach, to suit the agenda of the day," he said.

holymoly (Dublin) - Posts: 757 - 15/11/2008 10:58:43    142056

The hurlers are a disgrace. Disgrace to Cork and disgrace to GAA. This b1tching at Mc Carthy in the media is pathetic. S Og really shocked me. I thought he was a decent sort.

The way they are attempting to degrade Mc Carthy is a scandal!

12 months in the cold will do those lads the world of good! I'm sure Tipp are grinig like Kilkenny cats!!!

Real Louth fan (Louth) - Posts: 3157 - 15/11/2008 12:23:53    142069

Gerald has basically echoed what Ive been saying. These players may have some valid grievances, but----. Its not about pride in Cork GAA, its not about representing where youre from and upholding the core values of the GAA. Fair play to ya Gerald boy.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2574 - 15/11/2008 20:42:19    142184

I'm glad to see that the players are finally being honest. Kenny and Halpin have said, basically, that all along they didnt want Gerald. They wanted someone else. They are not hiding behind the "process argument" any more. We are seeing this now as the clear example of player power it is. They decided they dont like their manager and they are going on strike now to get rid of him. It had nothing to do with any process. At least they are being honest now. At the same time though their actions are just plain wrong in this light, and they are once more trying to hold the CCB to ransom.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2574 - 16/11/2008 11:49:28    142270

icehonesty
County: Wexford
Posts: 194

141897
Benny, we all have a sob story, and Sean's is as romantic as any other. Do you see hurlers on tv talking about how they came from a single parent family, or how they ate butter sandwiches breakfas dinner and supper til they were 15, or blah blah blah. Eoin Kelly is a good footballer by all accounts, but he has turned his back on it just as Halpin did. The more Halpin talks he detracts from his own legacy which I contend is no greater than a lot of other fellas. To be honest, Im sick of hearing about his views, and at the same time being expected to listen to them and take them as gospel because he is some hurling legend? He is Im sure in his own mind, but not in mine, and this media created status is quite frankly irritating.
I think some of the things he has said this time aren't nice. He doesn't respect Gerald McCarthy, he doesnt respect Cork GAA and he doesnt respect the Cork GAA supporters. At least Donal Cusack and Ben O'Connor have the good grace to be tactful and diplomatic.



No. First highlighted statement is wrong. Sean Og still plays football.

Second statement. You do not have to listen them if you do not want to. You choose to listen and then you make comments about them. the media seeks out Sean Og, not the other way around. Sean Og's performances in the past was seen by people in the business world and they are taking advantage of that (I do not mean that in a pejorative sense). Sean Og is a hurling legend. He is a great, great player. In terms of the hurlers that Cork have produced over the years, he is without a shadow of a doubt right up there with the best of them.

I agree with you pn the third statement. Some things were not nice but there is a lot of things being said by everyone that are not nice. In this whole sorry mess, everybody is guilty of that.

Your last statement is 100% false. Sean Og is one of the most decent human beings a person could meet.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 16/11/2008 19:53:12    142459

No. First highlighted statement is wrong. Sean Og still plays football.

Second statement. You do not have to listen them if you do not want to. You choose to listen and then you make comments about them. the media seeks out Sean Og, not the other way around. Sean Og's performances in the past was seen by people in the business world and they are taking advantage of that (I do not mean that in a pejorative sense). Sean Og is a hurling legend. He is a great, great player. In terms of the hurlers that Cork have produced over the years, he is without a shadow of a doubt right up there with the best of them.

I agree with you pn the third statement. Some things were not nice but there is a lot of things being said by everyone that are not nice. In this whole sorry mess, everybody is guilty of that.

Your last statement is 100% false. Sean Og is one of the most decent human beings a person could meet.


1st statement: At club level he plays, as do most truly great hurlers around.

2nd statement: Thats not entirely true. Sean's agent helps organise his media appearances.

3rd statement: Is Halpin in the top 20 Cork players of all time? Top 50 perhaps?

Benny, in terms of the argument the Cork hurlers made at the start, that the process for selecting a manager was not correct, you must agree that this was just a way for them to get around the fact that they did not want Gerald? Tom Kenny has said as much. He said they did not want McCarthy but the CCB gave him to them again. I really think what we have is a team who have decided they want a different manager and they are going to strike until they get it. All of the stuff about the CCB being bad, Gerald saying stuff, Sean saying stuff etc cant hide that fact. And I think it is plain wrong that a team go on strike because they dont like their manager. No matter what their reason for disliking him, it is still wrong.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2574 - 17/11/2008 09:53:46    142667

1st statement: At club level he plays, as do most truly great hurlers around. 2nd statement: Thats not entirely true. Sean's agent helps organise his media appearances. 3rd statement: Is Halpin in the top 20 Cork players of all time? Top 50 perhaps? Benny, in terms of the argument the Cork hurlers made at the start, that the process for selecting a manager was not correct, you must agree that this was just a way for them to get around the fact that they did not want Gerald? Tom Kenny has said as much. He said they did not want McCarthy but the CCB gave him to them again. I really think what we have is a team who have decided they want a different manager and they are going to strike until they get it. All of the stuff about the CCB being bad, Gerald saying stuff, Sean saying stuff etc cant hide that fact. And I think it is plain wrong that a team go on strike because they dont like their manager. No matter what their reason for disliking him, it is still wrong. Yes, I know he only plays at club level but how many dual players are there at the moment at inter-county level. You said he, like Eoin Kelly, turned his back on football. I must have misunderstood you because I do not ever remember Eoin Kelly playing inter-county football (maybe he did-I do not know??) therefore I presumed that you were saying that Eoin Kelly stopped playing with his club. Second statement. Right Sean Og does have an agent for the work he does. However, it is because he is in high demand. anyway, who would begrudge a hurler the chance to make some money on the side? I mean for example, if a Leitrim hurler (and no disrespect to them) got an agent it is highly unlikely that we would see him in the media. Sean Og did not get and agent and run the media, introduce himself and say "Hi, I am Sean Og, I play a bit of hurling, am mad for cash, any chance of a bit of work...". He first excelled on the hurling field, GAA players were finally allowed to do a bit of advertising and the media/business saw Sean Og as a person they want to associate themselves with. Advertising contracts are open to every player in the country technically. The media choose Sean Og. That is not his fault. You would hardly expect him to turn down the money?? If, as I presume you would not, why begrudge him then. Since, I have been watching hurling, since the mid 1980s the only player that I have seen that is better than Sean Og (in a Cork jersey) is Brian Corcoran. I have watched many of the 1970s games, many times, and the only players, from Cork, from that time that were better than him were Tom Cashman, Gerald McCarthy and Jimmy Barry-Murphy. In my opinion he is the fifth best player that has played with Cork. He is definitely in the top 15 of all time (my opinion anyway). The highlighted statement is true but we should not seperate the issues because that is key. Gerald did not want the job either at the time and the players did not want him and it would have been better for Cork hurling if the county board had just interviewed people that did actually want the job- all of this would have been saved. We were successful from 2003 to 2006 because we had proper structures in place. Yes the team is getting older but we have lots of young players and possibly the youngest forward line in the country this year (3 under 21s started against Kilkenny). Why is it unfair to ask to keep things in place that were successful?? I am not saying we are going to win, nobody can ever be certain of that, but why not keep something in place that works?? Do you think that is unreasonable??

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 17/11/2008 11:37:06    142768

I think that you may be correct that the structures in place now are not as good as they were, and I have never debated that. In my opinion, there are 2 managers in the world who are as good as Cody and thats Donal O'Grady and Justin Mc. In an ideal world, of course it would be preferable to have the best man, rather than the 3rd or 4th or 5th best. I accept that the set-up is probably not as professional. I acccept that there may be better men for the job.
But here's what Im saying:
1. Even if Gerald McCarthy didnt want the job he must have changed his mind because he took it. And a man is allowed change his mind.
2. He was democratically elected. I know you have said it was a one-horse race, but so was Jack O'Connor in Kerry and Cody in KK. The fact that the 2 players did not make a single suggestion for a candidate, just the same as the other 5 men on the committee, ensured that.
3. The players declared last year they would not strike again. Saying you'll retire unless a new manager comes in is a strike.
4. The CCB are not innocent. But in fairness, they have not broken any part of the LRC binding arbitration.
5. Player power to get a manager changed might work for Offaly with Babs, or Wexford this year, but they had one issue and conducted themselves with much more decorum.
6. Players need to realise their own place. They are a single GAA member the same way I am or you are. We do not dictate to the County board and neither should they.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2574 - 17/11/2008 12:29:33    142838

1. He might have changed his mind, or, he might have had his mind changed for him. For example, if you bailed my business out I would probably owe you one hell of a favour. 2. It is democratic in the absolute loosest sense of the word. One of the members of the committee claimed that Ger Mc was only the second best man for the job. That suggests that there was another canidate. When he first went for the job there were other canidates who were not interviewed. Given that everybody knew that he did not want the job, everybody expected him to step down and there was another person ready to let his name go forward. However, the county board did not want this so they refused to nominate another canidate and just fast-tracked Ger Mc back to the job: knowing that all this would result. Their is know spirit and good-will in any of this. As I said before, Robert Mugabe is technicall democratically elected and has been since 1980 (1981?). Should that be the end of that? Let Zimbabwe rot? 3 & 4. Take these together. The county board broke the spirit of the binding arbitration. Retiring and strike are not the same word but I know what you are saying. They are breaking the spirit of it as well. Both are guilty but the county board in Cork are power hungry. They resent the fact that they have to give anything to the players. For that reason, I believe that this is them forcing the players, calling their bluff if you will and that is not very nice to guys that have done so well. I believe that the players are fundamentally right in what they are doing. One guy runs everything down here. The clubs are afriad of him and the only ones in 30 years taht have stood up to him are th current players. Fair play to them I would say. 5. Maybe so. That is your opinion. However, had this not happened in Cork, the Wexford story would have come to the fore or possibly Donegal. The media would have scrambled for Wexford players/Donegal players etc and would have went through every detail with a fine tooth comb. Then we might have had a public spat between Meyler and Rossiter etc. We do not know if that would have happened but we can say that any possibilty was saved by what happened in Cork. 6. I agree with the first two clauses of this point. Given that, you will agree with the following. County Boards should know their place. They are members of GAA like you and I. They are the custodians that promote the game and look after the welfare of the players, both present and future potential. You will agree also that is not right that players be asked to live up to an agreement that a county board will not live up to (you can sub club players and club committees and the sentence holds). You can not just say to the players, oh go on and paly and take all this **** from the county board. Essentially, all of these players bar one or two will not be playing with Cork in 10 years. Unfortunately, however, there is every chance that the board, with there 1900s attitude, will still be there. There has been nothing done to promote hurling in Cork over the last 30 years (a few coaches hired to coach elite players in CIT and UCC and one or two guys that must manage about 500 schools between them and are so overrun with work they spend most of the time in office). If someone was genuinely interested in Cork hurling, in this issue, they would realize,regardless if they despise the players or not, the only way we can move forward in Cork is if this county board is defeated or just goes. If it is the players that back down on this, we will deeply diveded and the issue will not go away. There will be a change of players but there is every chance the same thing will happen again, with different names for you all to slag off.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 17/11/2008 13:33:55    142942

Benny, you have actually agreed with my 6 points, more or less. I know the CCB are power hungry, but in fairness, are they not meant to have more power than any other GAA group within a county? And I still don't like what youre saying about Mugabe - the players had the option to propose a candidate which would have had to have gone before the vote and they refused. I can see exactly what youre saying. The CCB are a backward-thinking group, who are more concerned with retaining their own say over the GAA than the future success of the county. Absolutely. But the hurlers are not coming out and striking for FM to resign are they? They are bad-mouthing Gerald, who I think has done nothing wrong, except maybe be fractionally less good as a coach.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2574 - 17/11/2008 14:01:16    142980

Unfortunately, as I have said many times, Gerald McCarthy is a pawn in all of this. I think everyone feels sorry for him that he has to take so much heat. What he has done for Cork over the years implies that he does not deserve this. Likewise, what Sean Og etc has done for Cork means that he does not deserve any of this either. It is a sorry pitiful mess. Who do deserve this is the County Board? Unfortunately, they are sitting pretty and letting people slug it out in public, meanwhile the structure that is GAA in Cork is crumbling.

Sean Og did call for Frank Murphy to resign, he reiterated that last week. They want a coach that will not allow the County board to interfere with their team. Someone like Donal O Grady or Billy Morgan (who was shafted twice by Frank Murphy).

You asked "should the county board have the most power within a county?" A tough one. The first thing I would expect them to do, is to actually do their job-to actually keep up with things in terms of games promotion. The attitude here, ah sure we were good in the 1970s without any full time coaches, what do we need them now for. Thing is Kilkenny, Wexford and Dublin were good then to and they are a mile ahead of us right now in terms of coaching, academies. Add Waterford, Antrim, Galway etc. Actually add everyone, there is nobody behind us anyway. If the County Board have power, I would expect them to use positively to keep Cork a force in hurling. At the end of the day, they are only representing all the clubs with the aim of doing what is best for all the clubs. When they start doing things that only benefit a small few people like themselves, they are not being constructive and I would suggest that they should not have the most power. It just so happens that we have a few people that will stand up them.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 17/11/2008 14:56:20    143038

Icehonesty - should it not be up to the CCB to hire the best man for the job and not the Cork players?

You argue that the players had a chance to propose a future manager and didn't do so. That's not their role.

3inarow08 (Kerry) - Posts: 2455 - 17/11/2008 15:22:42    143077

But Benny, my point is still the same. Gerald McCarthy has done nothing wrong. Why, if the Cork players beef is with the CCB, dont they strike until that is reformed? That would take real bravery. Because as it is, it appears that a group of players are trying to bully a man out of a position he was elected to. And I cannot agree that this is right.

I see now that the players are asking club players not to tog out to honour Colman's. I dont think thats right either.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2574 - 17/11/2008 15:43:00    143106

3inarow - there was a 7 man committee charged with proposing candidates to go to County convention to be voted on. 2 of the 7 were players. But they declined to propose anyone so only one candidate, Gerald Mc, went forward.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2574 - 17/11/2008 15:57:30    143129

icehonesty
County: Wexford
Posts: 209

143106 But Benny, my point is still the same. Gerald McCarthy has done nothing wrong. Why, if the Cork players beef is with the CCB, dont they strike until that is reformed? That would take real bravery. Because as it is, it appears that a group of players are trying to bully a man out of a position he was elected to. And I cannot agree that this is right.

I see now that the players are asking club players not to tog out to honour Colman's. I dont think thats right either.

Gerald did nothing per se. The County Board did something wrong by appointing him and not interviewing more suitable canidates. Gerald, in my opinion, should not have accpeted the job (though he probably had no choice as mentioned in other post) so yes. The players are dead right to ask to get rid of him. It is tough on him, he is the catalyst in all this and does not deserve this. The first step to any resolution in any of this sorry mess is that Gerald Mc has simply got to go, either he goes or gets pushed but he can not stay.

The players can not strike until the county board resigns as it is not their remit. There is lots of bullying going on, but it is not coming from the players. It is coming from certain people threatening the younger players on the panel.

The last sentence is a rumour that should not be believed. That is typical of the county board. The first thing they would do is come along and drag players through the mud. they are a despicable lot.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 17/11/2008 16:18:07    143171

Cork are a Joke I think kick them out of the championship and then they won't have to worry about their manager!

BigJohn.6_8 (Galway) - Posts: 704 - 17/11/2008 16:32:42    143196

The strike last year had little to do with the hurlers as they had to show solidarity for the footballers. This year the county board have done everything by the book, they couldnt care less if there is a hurling team in Cork next year, they are only concerned with teaching the boys a lesson. This year the training methods and tactics went back ten years, the short puck outs went eventhough we didnt have on strong fielder of the ball in the half-forward line, Gerald McCarthy works against the players, as Sean Og said, they want a realistic chance of winning and if they are not given that why should they waste their time, I know other counties who are weaker may feel well we are here and without a chance why should we bother, but its different in Cork, they are expectd to win all the time. The real issue is that Frank Murphy and Gerald McCarthy are bearing a grudge after last year and havnt the cop on to deal with it. Gerald needs to go!

rebelette24 (Cork) - Posts: 11 - 17/11/2008 16:50:06    143228