the county board are there to make decisons and manage. appoint selectors coaches etc. the players are there to play. have pride wearing the jersey and play the way they are told etc. player power is a bad thing. this situation just proves it.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 31/10/2008 15:09:39    130983

Two small things: Withdrawal of services is fine. But they are not doing that. They are withdrawing their services until such time as a change of manager is made, or change of voting etc, so that is a strike. They are not quitting, they are trying to use their non-appearance as a bargaining tool, which to my mind is a strike.
Also, look, I know how it worked in that meeting with the 7 guys to select the manager. They got stitched up. But its all the players own fault. When they resolved the last strike, they got 2 players on a panel of 7 to select the next manager. No matter who they were, those 2 players were going to lose. 5 beats 2 every day, and the 5 men, whoever they were going to be were going to pick McCarthy again.
I still say, that by not suggesting any names of their own, the two players were as guilty as the other 5 men on the selection panel of pushing through only one candidate. They fought for a voice, and decided not to use it in the correct forum. Then they come out and complain they weren't listened to??? They said nothing in there about any other candidate because they wanted this whole thing dragged up again and they wanted to gain more power this year.
Having said all this, I acknowledge that a selection panel is there for probably more than to rubberstamp one guy. And the Cork co board is rotten. And they have a man who pulls all the strings. And they have weak club delegates. And the players were probably right the first time they went on strike yrs ago.

But the players are still bang out of order on this this time.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2574 - 31/10/2008 15:15:27    130996

daytona the county board are there to make decisons and manage. appoint selectors coaches etc. the players are there to play. have pride wearing the jersey and play the way they are told etc. player power is a bad thing. this situation just proves it. Daytona, I agree with what you have stated above and in 31 other counties that is usually the case. In Cork however, you have to accept that there is different circumstances, with one man running the whole show. How did the entire Cork County Board get so rotten? I don't know, but it happened along time ago and it is now the case that if you don't follow this man in what he is doing then you are left behind and more importantly your club is punished as a result. Thats how twisted the Cork Situation and I know people will say that there is politics in every county board. in fact I would give anything for it to be just politics. The Cork County Board are playing a blinder with the media and the spin that is coming out from them in the various leaks to the media. I have been watching this since it broke last week and even if you go back to the dispute earlier this year, there was very little comment from the players. Ben O Connor has come out this week and his comments have been the only comments we have read from any of the players. There hasn't been a day gone by without Gerald Mc Carthy playing the sporting icon (in a hurling sense anyway) card who can't believe he's been treated this way. today we have the release to the irish examiner a survey or comment card exercise the players were forced to do after the tipp game this year where if you read the full article the players had to write some positive comments about gerald mc carthy and his managerial tactics. the article specifically says that the players could not write anything negative about mc carthy and here it is being printed in full by the examiner quoting every single player in the Cork Senior panel. to be honest the use of that exercise which was probably to build team spirit after the defeat to tipp, to now use it against the players as a stick to beat them with in an effort to sway public opinion is disgusting. If people on this site do not get the full picture here and open their eyes to what is going on in Cork and realise that this is not just a group of jumped up players who are too big for their boots and trying to take over Cork Hurling and the GAA to a certain extent.

happytobehere (Cork) - Posts: 360 - 31/10/2008 15:38:39    131041

Whats the status in Cork this week?

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2574 - 03/11/2008 12:30:52    132343

Is it just me , or does mc carthy seem to be on every paper / radio? Where is Ryan and why isnt he speaking out isnt that his part job as PRO. Not a whisper from the players either. Now dont misunderstand me, i cant abide bulling ,but i think the word bulling is over used. Mc carthy seems to be on every day saying the players tried to bully him, then next minute he is on saying he doenst hold grudges. I suppose it just goes to prove that he is just a puppet in this whole mess. Surely the Cork County board should have issued some statement at this stage. Or are they happy to let half truths being banded around in the media?

ver (None) - Posts: 228 - 03/11/2008 14:27:35    132476

Our county board PRO was supposed to go 103 FM West Cork last week to debate with a journalist. He agreed to this but then he pulled out. They are happy to let the players and Gerald Mc get dragged through the mud. The lot of them should be run.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 03/11/2008 15:22:30    132525

So it looks like FM is winning and will prevail here? How far will he go? Will Cork be represented next year in the championship? What's the news on the ground in Cork lads?

u22ok (None) - Posts: 45 - 03/11/2008 15:37:50    132553

Lads ... relax!!! Let them fight it out for a while...something will eventually give!

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 03/11/2008 15:56:18    132577

get down off your high horse benn bunny and look at this cork mess from an unbiased perspective and you will find dat it is a shambles and a disgrace. wat other county with get away wit wat cork down last year and then to cum bak a year later and do da same ting . how cum gerald mccarthy was lauded by certain players not so long ago??????? it must be some ridiculous maverick ting wit cork sportspeople, like roy keane slating stan da cork soccer players i.e liam miller were be discriminated against! wat a load of nonsence !!

Kinnear (Westmeath) - Posts: 158 - 03/11/2008 16:30:22    132621

wow, having read all 6 pages of this thread, it's turning out to be a real john grisham novel this one. the posts by happy, benny, ver and others give a great insight into a cork gaa structure that is unbelieveable dictorial for such a high profile county. daytona (look what a debate you've started) and others, mostyly, have given a good reflection of what we "outsiders" think and why we think it effects the entire gaa community. all of you seemed to have picked up instantly the cute way the media is been "used", what with leaked documents and such appearing at well timed intervals, ya couldn't make it up could ya?

here's what i've picked up, correct me if i'm wrong.

the players believe so strongly in this matter that a mass retirement is on the cards, even all the young guys that benny pointed out, and all/most of the potential replacements won't fill the spaces left open out of respect/fear. Now that is a serious situation for the CCB and McCarthy and Cork hurling.

The CCB are fine with the above, as we are lead to believe this was their(or FM's) original intention in the first place to show who really has the power, knowing that the players wouldn't accept McCarthy again and they'd come out looking like the bad guys by going on strike(call it what you like) again after saying they wouldn't. Again, you couldn't make it up.

Some of the above mentioned Cork posters have said they'd be happy to see no Cork team in next years league/champ if it means getting it sorted out. Having lived in Cork, I know what a big statement that is for you guys to make.

here's my tuppence..
scenario a) in brief, players quit, new ones come in, not a good year for cork, fans revolt........
Does FM and gang and McCarthy go due to public demand? (probably the players opinion of what they see will happen)
just McCarthy go?
Will players come back?

b)McCarthy stands down, (unlikely), players back in and FM et al still in power, back to square one

c) if this drags on and if no cork team appears next year for a while (prob in football too) and it affects other counties like last year, then what then? This is where someones earlier analogy of a company comes in and players wanting to pick they're boss and how it'd never happen in the workplace. well what the hell would head office (croke park) do?? do they get rid of FM, can they, does he have that much power??

anyway you look at it its a sad situation for Cork and the wider GAA too. looks like ye have some very stuborn people on both sides of the fence and can't see it being resolved any time soon. hope i'm wrong.

bishop_brennan (Leitrim) - Posts: 10 - 03/11/2008 21:45:14    132952

Good post Bishop B.

The essence of any dispute resolution is finding common ground among the protagonists. The main common ground among the parties here should be (you would imagine) the greater good of Cork GAA.

A county that is the most successful of all when you combine senior football and hurling titles. With a legacy steeped in legends - Christy Ring, Ray Cummins, Jack Lynch - to name a few.

No person, board or club is bigger than the GAA - either nationally or in any given county. The current 'keepers' of the GAA i.e. the county boards, players, managers etc. are just that - keepers. There are merely looking after a proud tradition that began decades before them and will (hopefully) continue long after their involvement is finished.

The parties involved in this dispute should take a look at their motives here - and I believe there is blame on all sides. For people who (I presume) profess to love Gaelic games there are doing serious and maybe irreparable damage. Surely they must look at the bigger picture - as indicated above - the greater good of Cork GAA. Too many people have a (selfish) agenda, their own self interests, a very narrow view and there appears to be many personal axes grinding away here.

All the parties involved should take a step back and have a long hard think about what's going on here and what their role is. Is it good for Cork GAA?

Its time (for everyone) to leave the baggage of ego, selfishness, vested interest and spitefulness etc at the door and engage in meaningful discussions to resolve these issues once and for all. And if any of the parties cannot do this, then they must do what is best for Cork GAA and walk away.

JayoCluxton (Dublin) - Posts: 2688 - 04/11/2008 09:33:07    133093

With some of the statements made last week i think the time for negotiatins have passed. Some of the personal insults and charachter assasanations may mean that gerald McCarthy's position is without doubt untenable with some of the current players still onboard. It looks like the only way out of this mess is for the main players/protaganists,cb officials and maybe even Gerald McCarhty to walk away. Heres calling on Frank Murphy and Donal Og to take the lead.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 04/11/2008 11:08:50    133208

Jayo /bishop yes we all agree that this needs to be done for the good of cork GAA, however the players arguement is that they are fighting for furture of cork gaa and they have its best intentions at heart, and to be honest i do actually think it isnt an ego thing ,they really do want whats best for cork hurling. FM and his cohorts will argue that they have cork gaa best interst at heart. however they think that cork gaa best way forward is to stay firmily in the past and we should be all bowing to their superior power. I dont think this will be solved any day soon and i think the CCB will sacrifce the oppurinity for silverware by not even neogotiaing . they really don't care whether or not we win anything as long as they hold the power. . FM even proved that in 07. I heard this from a souce near the team , while i know i have no prove that it actually happened , i have no reason to doubt the source. Half time in the all - ireland final against Kerry . Billy morgan asked everyone to leave the dressing room cos he wanted a word with the players . everyone left, except FM. Billy said that he asked everyone to leave. Seemly FM and Billy had words there and then. Now i not saying that we would have won the match anyway, but could you see that happening in any other dressing room on ALL Ireland day, KK or Kerry . No which just goes to prove that all that matters is Power. how could players focus after witness that? after the 02 strike, Fm disapearared off the sidelines for 03/04/05/06 what happen we got to an all Ireland. in 07 FM started to appear on the side lines again ,and we can see the effect this has on the players, knowing that the manager doesn't have fulll control of his decisions.

ver (None) - Posts: 228 - 04/11/2008 11:56:48    133248

The solution is very simple and was outlined by John Gardiner a couple of weeks ago. FM and Donal Og should both resign their respective positions with immediate effect as they both are the root of this current impasse. Anyone who really believes the Cork hurlers are making a great and noble heroic stand for liberty or freedom or whatever is sadly deluded. Ditto anyone who believes the Co boards defense of G Mac has anything to do with honour is, again mistaken. Hes merely a pawn in this bitter clash of two rather dull and intransigent personalities and the sooner the two of them walk the sooner Cork will be at peace.

mossbags (Galway) - Posts: 1089 - 04/11/2008 12:54:11    133313

The last three posts were brilliant in fairness. Well done Bishop Brennan, JayoCluxton (the best poster on this site it seems) and Daytona11 (is this a seminal/lifechanging moment for you??).

In many posts on this topic, people have been using the analogy of business set-up where employees (players) do not choose their boss (county-board). I believe that this is fundamentally flawed. In a business, the boss pays the employees to do their work. If they do not like it, they are compensated/ remunerated for their disquiet. They choose whether this remuneration is adequate in their decision to stay.

The GAA is a sporting organization that competes with many others to win the hearts and minds of young players. Those that organize games and competitions need to put an attractive programme that attracts new players and keeps existing players happy. This is the job of club committees, county boards etc. They are essentially a business that is in a competitive market fighting over a limited pool of customers (players). It makes no business sense to argue with your customers, to go head to head with them.

Club committees, county boards etc are in place because, ideally, they believe what the GAA means in this country, its place in the community. They should not be there to further their own profile and power. This is happening in Cork.

Make absolutely no mistake about it , whether everyone on this site hates the current Cork players or not is irrelevant, the damage that the County Board are doing to Cork GAA and the promotion of GAA in Cork is maybe irreperable (and their job is to make sure it is healthy). Donal Og does not need to go anywhere, it is the County Board that promotes and maintains the well being of GAA in Cork, not Donal Og. If they can not do that, and they have shown over the years that they can not, then it is time for all of them to resign.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 04/11/2008 14:04:54    133382

Who knows Benny it might well be!! I really think that if these protaganists and officials do not step down sooner rather than later cork hurling and gaa as a whole could be in big trouble. They are an aging team and the young lads coming through need to be playing division 1 hurling. If this problem is not sorted out soon the GAA will not be as leniant this time. I think they could well make an example and relegate them. A lot of other counties feel that if they were in this position the gaa would come down on them like a tonne of bricks. And their probably right. These counties will call for Cork to be relegated.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 04/11/2008 16:49:25    133565

I would fully and unequivocally support any proposal that sees Cork relegated/suspended/expelled for any period of time if they fail to fulfill a game next year. Furthermore, if the powers that be decide that what happened last year was unfair (and it was unfair) and decide to reinstate Wexford into Division 1 and Cork to Division 2, I would also support that, likewise Cavan/Roscommon footballers instead of Cork.

However let us be clear on one thing, it was the Cork County Board that was at fault last year too. There was a simple proposal put to the Cork County Board by the Ballinhassig club that the County Champions in hurling and football (senior) would not have the right to appoint a selector or nominate the captain to the Cork senior teams. This was democratically voted on and it was adopted. What was not democratic was the county board's executive decision to append another issue to that vote without discussing it with club delegates: that was the right of the county manager to pick his own selectors. hence, if you voted for the Ballinhassig proposal (which was reasonable) you were also voting to give the power to the County Board to choose the selectors thereby tieing the hands of the manager. This was a key issue in the strike of 2002, common practice in every county in Ireland, yet the County Board were desperate to regain some power lost in 2002. they saw this as an opportunity. Billy Morgan duly resigned in disgust and without telling the players that they broken their agreement, they instated Teddy Holland and 4 selectors before the players could blink. They were obviously disgusted by such betrayal so they went on strike.

The County Board eventually backtracked knowing that it was their fault and knowing that these players are not going to take their crap. With egg on their face, it was they that decided that Cork should be put back into the national leagues. I do not know what power people think that the Cork players have, but they are not politicians. It was another master stroke by our county secretary, who was wrong, did not want to admit it so just covered his tracks. Wexford, Monaghan, Roscommon, Meath, Cavan etc all suffered, but you did not suffer over anything the players did but you suffered because Frank Murphy and Cork County Board are bigger, or at least they think they are, than the GAA. It is imperative that they go for the good of all GAA not just Cork.

Donal Og, Sean Og and the likes are not bigger than the GAA nor do they think they are. Ask any of them of their time under Donal O Grady and they will tell you what it was like. They were never friends and Donal O Grady does not hang around but they had a relationship built on strict discipline. It was O'Grady's way or the high way. It worked, not due to them going on strike because they did not like O'Grady's disciplinarian regime but because they trusted each other. O'Grady kept the players disciplined and focus, kept the county board from interfering with the team, was ultra strict and professional in evrything he did and everyone knew their place. They had something like they have in Kilkenny where you have a man like Cody who runs things and everyone is committed to Kilkenny's cause. What is happening now is the county board are desperate to get their hands on the team and regain control, a manager who is caught in the middle and does not really want the job and players who just want what they had agreed to in 2002 and what worked so successfully for a few years. Anyone that thinks that is them just looking for attention because they are getting older is extremely misguided.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 04/11/2008 17:46:09    133622

Sorry lads but if you think things are bad in Cork, they definitely look worse in Donegal right now
The way in which John Joe Doherty was selected to be the next manager is like Bush winning the 2000 election with all those missing florida votes!!
Definitely doesn't bode well for Donegals prospects in 09

holymoly (Dublin) - Posts: 757 - 05/11/2008 09:55:18    133964

Benny an interesting post there. But in fairness who do outsiders believe? the players are saying one thing and the cb are saying another. Gerald McCarthy came out witha statement to defend himself in the face of crticism from some of the players. Now I think that Gerlad probably should have said nothing and let the likes of Donal Og keep digging his own grave. Now perhaps after Gerald releasing his statement his posiotn is also untenable. as for the county board. Well they really need to start showing some leadership here. The general public in the county should also pressure the protaganists in the dispute to step away.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 05/11/2008 15:05:53    134301

At this stage there is a lot of pressure on the main protagonist but he has gone to ground like he did last year. Amazingly with all this mess, the county board are making no comments. They have no meeting scheduled for a further two weeks. It is about two since they ahd their last one. None of this is by accident by the way. It is a planned and calculated scheme. The broke the spirt of what was agreed last year and then went under ground to let the players take the brunt of the dispute that they new they were creating. They expected that there would be a public backlash against the players nationally and fair play to them, it has worked a treat for them. It is good politics. Bad for GAA in Cork but as suspected, few of them care anyway.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 05/11/2008 15:24:07    134322