A quote from Ben O'Connor "it's not an honour to play for Cork, its an honour to win for cork" - HOLY MOTHER OF GOD. So what about them palyers from the weaker countues who find it hard to compete with most.

This is ridiculous childish antics from players are too big for their own boots. I rememer when there was talk about players striking over the GPA years ago. MICKEY HARTES views were simple and proper with regards the matter. They were along the lines of "Ill always be able to find 15 players who wnat to play for tyrone".

Simply put, it is always an honour to paly for your county, club, school or whatever, Cork boys seem to take it for granted.

Derry_ledd (Derry) - Posts: 2093 - 29/10/2008 09:55:01    128599

Jayo

They are sorting it out internally, they'll all walk as one and Gerald will have to find another squad. So be it. Not their fault that the national media picks up on it.

Icehonesty.

I agree with you, if they fail to fulfil any fixture next year and it impacts the league/ championship then they should be excluded. There's a long way to go before that and I can't see it happening.

I'm afraid we'll be saying adios to this bunch of players. Just hope that their sacrifice will be worth something, and that clubfolk in Cork will wake up and do something about the powers that be in the county. I don't think this will happen this year, but maybe when the shambles hits home during next years championship people might take a bit of notice.

A word of warning to Cork footballers, watch yer backs, now that the hurlers have been taken care of, it's gonna be your turn to pay for your insolence!

dowchabiy (UK) - Posts: 204 - 29/10/2008 09:59:57    128608

Ok, I'll try playing devils advocate here. From the players point of view, they have only so many years that they can play the game at the highest level. To say that Cork hurling is hungry for success is an understatement. Cork players and fans alike would be expecting them to be contesting All-Irelands every year. They can hide it but we all know that the beating KK gave them and the fact that KK have just done the 3 in a row hurts deep down. Now they're looking forward to the future and they want the best manager to lead them to victory again this year. However, it doesn't appear that the CCB want to change their manager and have decided to keep Gerald McCarthy on as manager. For whatever reason, be it personal or professional the players don't think that McCarthy has what it takes to be the manager, which is why they feel they deem it necessary to show how serious they are by having a number of retirements.

Cork GAA politics aside, thats their case. If that is their case, I don't think even Lionel Hutz would take that one up. If you don't like the manager for whatever reason, leave. No ones forcing you to play. If you don't like playing for the guy and you feel that the commitment that you're making is being wasted playing under a manager like that, then by all means walk away. One player or 27 players are not bigger than Cork GAA. I just hope the players don't try to drag Gerald McCarthy down like they did with FM earlier on this year. People talk about how FM has an iron clad grip on the GAA world of Cork, I would argue that certain personalities in that Cork team would have the same grip on the team's politics themselves. Just like some have theorised that the main men in Cork are simply yes men to FM's whims, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the same case with the players who follow Donal Og, Sean Og etc.

Just like with the strike earlier this year, I'm yet to see any ex Cork players, or club officials row in behind the players on this one. In that regard, from an outsiders point of view, you would naturally have the perception that this is very much an inhouse problem between the players and everyone else. The way that the Cork players try to use the media has not been shrewd or subtle in the past. We're only at the early stages of this crisis but I wonder when we'll hear Sean Og or some of the others start crying about the 'bias against Cork players/people/officals/maor uiseces etc'.

holymoly (Dublin) - Posts: 757 - 29/10/2008 10:09:47    128619

ok,
im going to make somewhat of a u turn here. Maybe things are not right in the county and the players have a right to feel agrieved about certain aspects of the set up and procedures. but i really dont think that their going about it the rights way.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 29/10/2008 10:22:36    128632

I want to point out where I stand with this. I firmly back to players stance cause I know well what it is like in the Cork County board. If there is another strike or anything that could possible upset the national league of championship as a result of the actions of the cork county board and players, then I think Cork should be thrown out of what ever competition it is effecting. There should be no time for talks to broker deals or any concession given to Cork like what was given earlier this year. This is a Cork problem and we should be left to implode all by ourselves without disturbing other counties. That is number 1. That has to happen. People raise the point about why is this always happening in Cork. This being the third time that the players and county board have been going at each other. It has been mentioned that other county boards have a lot of politics within them but this is the importance difference, the level of power and control that one man has, not only over the Cork County board but also the entire GAA as a whole is unbelievable. Benny has pointed out a number of instances at national level where this man has tried to stop rule changes and bring in new rule changes. Hi is the most powerful man in the GAA in my opinion. He has far more power and influence than the GAA president himself. another point raised frequently are the words "democratic", "democratically elected". Great words and when you read them from a Cork County board statement, you have visions of men fighting and dieing for such a right (No intention to make fun of any person who has fought and died for this great country). I would say that FM, Gerald Mc Carthy and Teddy Holland last year were democratically elected to there post in the same way as Robert Mugabe was democratically elected this year. I would go as far to say that any person or body that comes out and uses those phrases is more our less telling the world that it was a sham. Everyone knows that within GAA boards and club boards that anyone can with a little support from a few yes men travel very far up the GAA ladder to places of real power and influence. In Cork's case one man travelled all the way to secretary (Which is a place of real power cause you are stuck in everything) and got in for a few years and with the support of others, wrote his own contract and has been there since. He had been a selector on Cork teams for more years than he has not since becoming secretary. He has to sign the slip of paper for subs to come on in matches and as one of Cork's all time greats, Jimmy Barry Murphy found out, that he may not always want to do that, it will depend on his mood or what he believes should be done.

happytobehere (Cork) - Posts: 360 - 29/10/2008 10:30:17    128636

Tomas Mulcahy, Donal O Grady, Deni Allen and John Allen all came out in support of the players earlier this year. The only person I can recall who came out in support of the county board was Teddy Mc Carthy and he was selected as one of Teddy Holland's football selectors.

happytobehere (Cork) - Posts: 360 - 29/10/2008 10:38:16    128646

happy - If thats the case then I retract my last statement, I can't remember any ex player or official joining the march that was done to show support for the players. But when you say they came out in support of the players, how do you mean exactly. Are we talking about rowing in behind the players and calling for Frank Murphy and co to step down like the players did or that they were just sympathetic to their cause?
I'm not trying to be smart or anything but all I'm saying is that John Allen came out saying that the county board were going about things the wrong way in allowing the county board to pick a managers selectors etc. He gave the usual speel about how bad things were in Cork pre the 02 strike and described the us and them mentality that yourself and benny have pointed out before. Others like Larry Tompkins for example said that surely a compromise is all that is needed and not such militant action as a strike.
But if memory serves I think the only pundit that came out and asked for Murphy to step down was Colm O'Rourke.

holymoly (Dublin) - Posts: 757 - 29/10/2008 11:40:29    128684

I take your point Holymoly. You do use the correct term, "sympathetic" is probably how best to describe the ex-player/managers ect stance on the cork strike. In fairness to the people who supported them, they did and said all they could say. They can hardly come out and libel or slander frank murphy or anyone in the county board. they would find themselves in court facing a civil suit in that case. If people can think about this without using their ill feeling towards cork or cork players (people in general, not you Holymoly) then they will realise when they look at all the facts that this is basically a process by the county board trying to restore the old order of having total control and power over the players and treating them like dirt. No player from any county who puts so much time and effort into their county's cause deserves to be treated like the way the cork county board treats the cork players. even this week we here reports of the younger less experienced cork players being phoned by officials and being "advised about their future". I think what is happening in Cork is something you would see in a Martin Scorsese movie. Now people may laugh about that, but when you think about it, you see how serious the situation. I believe that one man wants all the senior players to walk away and he would be rid of them so he can start to regain the ground he lost in 2002 and 2007/2008. In my opinion the man does not care about the possibility of cork winning an all-ireland as long as he is the man and it is done on his terms. there is ample evidence to back this up in the attempts made by the county board to block the players progress at any given opportunity.

happytobehere (Cork) - Posts: 360 - 29/10/2008 12:13:04    128724

htobeh

I think everyone recognises there is an ongoing power struggle but as I said in a previous post it has become wearying and annoying for the rest of us - regardless of who's right or wrong. Its hard to believe that in this day and age one man can cripple a county in this fashion. Someone mentioned Mugabwe earlier - maybe its Idi Amin. Is there not some compromise candidate who can sort this once and for all. Cork GAA is becoming an absolute joke at this stage to be honest. Its sad to see.

JayoCluxton (Dublin) - Posts: 2688 - 29/10/2008 12:23:27    128734

Happy - I would probably follow JC's thinking on this. Its not that I have any ill feeling for Cork, its just that I think a lot of the general GAA public just get fed up with the fact that an internal matter in one county can have such a knock on effect to the rest of the country.
I can safely say that I probably don't have anywhere close to the same knowledge as yourself or bunny on the internal politics of Cork gaa, from the outside looking in, it really is a clash of 2 forces who are both 100% sure they are right in their cause.

In any case, that was a good debate all the same. Rare that we see these on HS these days. We haven't had many good Cork posters since rebel2dacore and Jerry, Adrigole.

holymoly (Dublin) - Posts: 757 - 29/10/2008 12:32:13    128739

jayo i take your point yes the rest of the country is probaly getting tried of it,but you missing the point ,this was going on behind the scenes ,The CCB leaked it to the media, why to portray the players in a bad light thats it. As for someone asking why we dont get rid of the higher archery, there is a small matter of a certain indivual contract.

ver (None) - Posts: 228 - 29/10/2008 12:50:58    128765

I agree with you Jayo. As I have said before what happened earlier this year and how it affected other counties should not be allowed to happen this time and if this thing drags on into 2009 which it will by the way then Cork should be expelled from the league and the championship if it continues to be unresolved. I bet you that alot of Cork people would feel the same.

You most also remember and admittedly we never let ye forget on how proud a sporting county we are in Cork and in particular, proud of our hurlers. This is very hard to take. I live in Kerry and my good Kerry neighbours are making it very hard for me personally to take and understand, But thats my own fault since this has happened so soon after Kerry's all-ireland final defeat, so this is a gift from god for Kerry people to deflect from their own worries.

Anyone who makes the point that these players are too big for their boots and need to be taken down a peg or two a very much mistaken. They only want was is best for Cork and for them to be prepared as best they can for 2009. They have lost five championship matches in the two years since Mc Carthy took over(Ger Loughnane only lost two). he has tried to change their style of play, which for this particular group of players is like telling a right handed person to write with their left hand. I know people will say that if they were good enough then Cork should have been able to adapt. However you most realise how effective Cork are when they run at teams and that style should have only been tweaked and altered slightly rather than changed fully.

Mc Carthy has had his chance with Cork, like he had with Waterford. It was time for a change and it was obvious. The County board knew this but they also knew that the players didn't want Mc Carthy back. The county board are now using the very rules and implementations that were brought in earlier this year in order to provoke a conflict with the players again. Is there any other county board in the country that would do such a thing. we all know that things are done behind closed doors in finding managers, but what the cork county board have done is basically put their collective two fingers up at the Cork players in oder to force them to retire or walk away from Cork hurling.

happytobehere (Cork) - Posts: 360 - 29/10/2008 12:51:32    128768

In any case, that was a good debate all the same. Rare that we see these on HS these days. We haven't had many good Cork posters since rebel2dacore and Jerry, Adrigole. holymoly , 29/10/2008 at 12:32
_________________________________________________________________________

bennybunny = legend

Loyal2TheRoyal (Meath) - Posts: 4522 - 29/10/2008 12:54:43    128769

I am in favour of Gerald McCarthy staying on as the Cork Manager. As someone who has been a devoted Cork GAA follower for many years I am both embarrassed and appalled that the players are once again thinking of going on strike. We are becoming the laughing stock of the country.The Cork County board have every right to reappoint Gerald McCarthy. It is only people who have no understanding of the rules of the association who question the validity of their actions. Every single club in Cork is represented on the Cork County Board. The selection committee, which consisted of two players were given the task of appointing a Cork Manager. Now that they don't like the decision they say that they will never play under McCarthy. The players are acting like spoilt children. Think of a work situation - when and where do employees choose their boss? It just doesn't happen. The simple solution is to pick the players for the next match and if they refuse to play they will receive automatic bans of 12 months each. The sooner that the current crop of Cork hurlers are replaced with people who want to wear the red and white of Cork for the right reasons the better.
Fair deuce to Gerald McCarthy for standing up to them - it is about time someone did.
I would prefer to play junior and intermediate hurlers and forfeit honour for a few years than give in again to this lot. Who the hell do they think they are?

PeterFinnegan (Cork) - Posts: 7 - 29/10/2008 13:16:31    128784

Lads check out irishexaminer.com and the sport section, diarmuid o flynn has a very good interview with Ben O Connor about this latest dispute. Its a good insight into the players views on the matter and i know its only one side of the argument but it was interesting to read.

happytobehere (Cork) - Posts: 360 - 29/10/2008 13:29:56    128794

happytobehere
County: Cork
Posts: 112



I believe that one man wants all the senior players to walk away and he would be rid of them so he can start to regain the ground he lost in 2002 and 2007/2008. In my opinion the man does not care about the possibility of cork winning an all-ireland as long as he is the man and it is done on his terms. there is ample evidence to back this up in the attempts made by the county board to block the players progress at any given opportunity



Fair play happy, that is the entire issue in a nutshell. Like you, I personally hope the players go all the way and I hope that we get we kicked out of all competitions next year (if needs be).

I believe, and I hope, that it will come that. Then maybe people will be spurned into action. It is not a simple case of players retiring and Gerald McCarthy picking another panel. I would be shocked if he was able to find 15 players (even if he scrope the barrell for Junior C players) that would line out for Cork next year under this situation.

I think Ben O Connor's remarks were slightly casual, maybe flippant in a way but I assure anyone that he sees it as an enormous honour for him to play for Cork.

I do not know who said it, but Cork hurling is not a declining force, well it should not be. This year we have added guys like Pat Horgan, Cathal Naughton, Paudie O Sullivan, Pa Cronin, Brian Corry (all under 21 and all played championship), Shane O Neill, Kevin Canty (a year over 21) to the squad. Tom Kenny, John Gardiner, Ronan Curran, Brian Murphy, Niall McCarthy are all in their mid twenties and only hitting their prime now, I would sincerely hope that we have only seen half of their potenetial so far. As for the older guys, Ben O Connor was our best player this year, deserved his All-Star. Donal Og did not put a foot wrong in any of his games. The Rock wobbled but showed his true worth to the team toward the end. Timmy McCarthy - well according to some hurling "experts", Timmy should have retired 10 years ago. The two players I would worry about are Gerry O Connor who is crippled with injury and who should for his own well being pack it up at this level. I think Gerry O Connor owes Cork anything and it is sad to see him the way he is now. Joe Deane is the other. Absolutely outstanding against Galway this year, typical Joe. Unfortunately he is not able to recover as he used to and such performances will be fleeting in the future. But a super a hurler that owes Cork nothing.

If Cork are declining, it is not for a lack of players, it is as a result of people not giving them their best shot. That is not an excuse, it is a reason and a sad reality. Still, other counties should not have to put up with it. Move on if you want to, but the priority in Cork is to get this sorted.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 29/10/2008 13:57:31    128823

PeterFinnegan. My thoughts entirely. Good to see some people on this page have some common sense. I would give them 2 year bans though. They wouldn't be long bacbtrackin then or maybe they are just so arrogant they they would stand their ground. I am going to boycott these players, lets not forget, they are getting government grants now! As a result I call on the Irish government to withdraw their grants immediately!

rebels (None) - Posts: 65 - 29/10/2008 14:48:39    128878

i had a feeling when i started the thread it was going to be a good debate. i hope other posters follow my lead and also start up controversial threads etc. get some good debates going again.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 29/10/2008 14:54:47    128888

ver, benny, htobeh

Its quite obvious the anguish this is causing you all as it would any true supporter. I have had my fun with the SIPTU boys on posts here myself in the past but will not joke about it anymore as I feel it has gone past that stage. We even had Kieran Mulvey involved earlier this year to try to broker a deal. I doubt Kofi Annan could sort it at this stage. It seems to me that maybe a clear out of the whole lot - players, board etc may be the only solution. Maybe GAA folk should organise a mass meeting - taking no particular side - and let all know that this has got to stop. Because Cork GAA is just being dragged deeper and deeper through the mud - regardless of who is right or wrong.

JayoCluxton (Dublin) - Posts: 2688 - 29/10/2008 14:57:29    128892

i havent read all the posts on this as I would need a week judging by the length of some of the posts but the issue with Cork people seems to be with the county board? who voted in this co board and is it the same co board for the past few years?? if it is then why arent people doing anything about it at the AGM each year??

longfordlad (Longford) - Posts: 64 - 29/10/2008 15:23:43    128939