I completely disagree. Gerald McCarthy should not go. He has done nothing wrong.

As regards the team having gone back 10 years, I must disagree also. Gerald was tactically excellent against Clare and Galway, and against Kilkenny Cork performed far in excess of their ability and gave their best display of the past 3 years. Gerald, rightly in my opinion, changed how Cork played and instructed them to play a longer game. Teams were getting good at stopping their puke hurling running game. Even John Allen instructed them to play long when they played Galway in the All-Ireland.

Still, I am sticking with my assertion that his ability as a manager is not the issue at stake, and if it is the players havent even a tiny bit of credibility.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2574 - 17/11/2008 17:03:18    143241

icehonesty
County: Wexford
Posts: 211

143241 I completely disagree. Gerald McCarthy should not go. He has done nothing wrong.

As regards the team having gone back 10 years, I must disagree also. Gerald was tactically excellent against Clare and Galway, and against Kilkenny Cork performed far in excess of their ability and gave their best display of the past 3 years. Gerald, rightly in my opinion, changed how Cork played and instructed them to play a longer game. Teams were getting good at stopping their puke hurling running game. Even John Allen instructed them to play long when they played Galway in the All-Ireland.

Still, I am sticking with my assertion that his ability as a manager is not the issue at stake, and if it is the players havent even a tiny bit of credibility.


You do not want him to go because it is a question of morals which is fair enough. I accept this. But there are no morals in Cork hurling. There is no respect anymore and it has all been caused by the County Board. I have friends that have lost a little bit of respect for Cork players but all admit, as bad as it would be, for the benefit of the game, Ger Mc must make the first move and just leave. By doing that, he will clear the way for the real issue (which is not about the county team at all). Replacing our best players will achieve nothing. It is easier and better that Gerald goes.

Gerald, tactically excellent!! Those results had more to do with the players standing up against the torrent of criticism they received after Tipp and Dublin matches (Cork players receive as much abuse when they play as when they do not it seems). If you do believe that it was Gerald McCarthy that was tactically excellent, then you will surely say that he was tactically inept against Tipperary and Dublin. Surely you are not just picking the Galway and Clare games to suit you own argument?? Or maybe you are saying that it was the players that were rubbish against Tipp, Dublin and Kilkenny and all Gerald McCarthy against Galway and Clare?? Against Kilkenny, we were just not good enough but still ran Kilkenny the closest.

Puke hurling?? That is a small bit below the belt. It is entirely subjective what you like to see. The Cork players are not in anyway less skillful than their counter parts anywhere else.

The year was bad overall. Maybe the players are militant at training or whatever?? Maybe they are the most difficult bunch of egos in the world to get on with (though the few that I know are the soundest lads you could meet). However, Donal O Grady and John Allen had no bother getting on with them. The fact remains they are our best players. Anyone that went to a club championship match in Cork would know that. If that means we are fifth best team in the country or the twenty-fifth, those guys are the best players we can put out right now. We need them. We do not need Gerald McCarthy because we could easily get another coach. This thing can not be about principle anymore, it is what is what is best for Cork. Teaching some lads a lesson and keeping Gerald Mc = bad for Cork. Getting rid of Gerald = good for Cork (and I reiterate that I have nothing but respect for the man).

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 17/11/2008 17:55:02    143304

This Cork team was one of the most dedicated of all time. If they are not turning up for organised training, something is wrong.

That wrong is the board. They are still sulking over 2002 and want revenge and are prepared to wreck Cork hurling to get it.

For example, the new rule states no inter county activity over winter. How come Cork are supposed to be playing this Sunday? The answer is the board wish to humiliate these dedicated players.

At the moment, all the players should refuse to represent Cork, from minor up.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 17/11/2008 19:31:53    143384

It is a point of morals for me. Gerald McCarthy is a decent man, a true legend of Cork GAA, and he deserves more respect than he is getting. He was democratically elected, has done his best and should not be told what to do by players. I know I would not have conducted myself so gracefully if I had been confronted at a team meeting and told I should step down. How dare they!

Now I think, from what I saw, that the longer game that Cork played, along with the deployment of Naughton, payed dividends against Clare and Galway. Against Tipp, this worked up until after half-time, and for the last quarter hour the team just folded. I know its very difficult to play small teams like Dublin, and they did retain their status in division 1 this season, plus took Wexford to a replay.

The players had their minds made up on Gerald long before now. In my opinion they had their minds made up the day he was elected. Up to then they had gotten their own way with who they wanted. If he hadnt been so decent as to support them during the footballers strike they would have pulled this craic last year.

Im still wondering, if their beef is with the county board, they should be striking against them until the CCB officers are replaced, not a man who has done his best and who actually did his best to assist them last year.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2574 - 17/11/2008 22:46:35    143570

Gerald McCarthy needed a facilitator to work with the team last year. In my opinion, he was democratically elected by the board to wind up the players, and it worked.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 18/11/2008 01:05:25    143637

icehonesty County: Wexford Posts: 215 143570 (1)It is a point of morals for me. Gerald McCarthy is a decent man, a true legend of Cork GAA, and he deserves more respect than he is getting. (2) He was democratically elected, has done his best and should not be told what to do by players. I know I would not have conducted myself so gracefully if I had been confronted at a team meeting and told I should step down.(3) How dare they! Now I think, from what I saw, that the longer game that Cork played, along with the deployment of (4) Naughton, payed dividends against Clare and Galway. Against Tipp, this worked up until after half-time, and for the last quarter hour the team just folded. I know its very difficult to play small teams like Dublin, and they did retain their status in division 1 this season, plus took Wexford to a replay. The players had their minds made up on Gerald long before now.(5) In my opinion they had their minds made up the day he was elected. Up to then they had gotten their own way with who they wanted. If he hadnt been so decent as to support them during the footballers strike they would have pulled this craic last year. Im still wondering,(6) if their beef is with the county board, they should be striking against them until the CCB officers are replaced, not a man who has done his best and who actually did his best to assist them last year. 1. I agree with you, but you replace Ger Mc with any players name and that sentence would still hold. There are no winners in all of this, Cork hurling is losing, so we have to put morals aside. It is easier to get rid of one than it is thirty. In sport, it is always the manager that goes, rightly or wrongly, Gerald should go. 2. You keep saying this. He was democratically elected but it was a complete farce. It was no better than any of Robert Mugabe's elections. 3 & 5. Take these together. You are right about 5. They were not happy. Nobody was happy. I do not even think Ger Mc was happy. Two people wanted the job but were not given it and a feelow that did not want it was plucked from a managing a club camogie team to managing an inter-county team that had just reached four All-Irelands on the trot and had the most professional set-up ever, in terms of what Cork were used to, in the process. It was basically the county board, saying enough is enough, we are back in charge. We are using Ger Mc (one of the greatest ever players in Cork) as a pawn to teach you guys a lesson. Would you be happy with that?? 4. Ger Mc took Naughton off against Galway, he had to be told to put him back on. He had no plan B against Tipp. 6. They can not do that. The point that is underlined. You say you would not have reacted garcefully if 10 people confronted you? how do you react when one person is constantly trying to get one over on you, despite you doing whats best, despite you being so successful, despite you proving that everybody is happy, despite you knowing that all that guy wants is power and does not care about anyone else?? How would you react then?

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 18/11/2008 11:41:01    143816

I couldn't believe it at first either, but thinking about it more and more, it makes perfect sense in the broader scheme of things and where we are at after 6 years of this war. Forget about the players, and forget about Ger Mc for the moment. Whatever side we are on, we might as well all admit that this all about the county secretary and a few close allies, and what American generals call "full spectrum dominance" of Gaelic games at the elite level in Cork. Over 35 years he has tangled with players, managers, selectors and even delegates and board officers, and if he has lost a few battles, he has never lost the war. Unlike all those "foes", he is a professional within the GAA, therefore time has always been on his side. However in recent years he has had his wings clipped twice, in 2002 and 2008, by the players, by the press, to a lesser extent by the public, and even by Mulvey, who threw Teddy Holland back in his face, even though the secretary washed his hands of Holland by forcing the board to "democratically" vote to sack him. This has been nothing short of humiliation, and the secretary is a proud man, with a list of achievements as long as your arm to back him up. I always expected him to go back into the long grass and bide his time, but maybe he realised that time is not his side for once and went straight back into the plotting. Following the Mulvey arbitration and the consequent vacancy that arose for Cork football manager, the secretary suggested a coach he knew under no circumstances the players could work with, and the players' reps told him so. It was a short term battle he knew he wouldn't win, so he backed down and conor counihan was unanimously agreed. Consultation, not conflict. The way forward. But an indication that this thing could flare up again very soon. And so conflict comes to pass again, much sooner than I thought. We now have the grim spectre of a former playing legend and AI winning coach in 1990 with a poor recent coaching record, and a proud determined man, up against current playing legends, seen by many as being past their best and cocooned in an ego-driven lifestyle of player power and product endorsements. With the reputations of Ger Mc, Donal Og, Sean og et al now tarnished beyond repair, why not sully the great name of St. Colman's Fermoy by commemorating it as the location where Cork GAA's civil war really took hold? It's just one more victim to be added to a long list. To be continued

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 18/11/2008 12:05:35    143845

Think of the secretary's achievements over the years. The first full time position in the GAA outside of Secretary General of the Association. The redevelopment of the Athletic Grounds. The purchase of Flower Lodge and its redevelopment as Pairc Ui Rinn. The refereeing of All Ireland finals, of county finals. A selector on many's an AI winning team. An unrivaled knowledge of the GAA rulebook. A huge input into the development of that book. An unrivaled knowledge of procedure in the county and nationally, often used to get players off the hook (whether that is a good thing is very debatable), but also used to obtain material benefit for Cork (my first real sporting memory is the dubs down the pairc in 83). However, these procedural skills have also been used to defy public opinion, or even democratic will. The Rule 42 debacle in 2001, when a recount of votes/re-vote at the national convention was overruled on procedural grounds. The rule 42 debacle in 2006, when the wishes of the clubs in Cork were ignored on procedural rules (but agreed to by delegates on the night of course!). The fear expressed by members of my club, by other clubs and people on this forum that any attempt to rock the boat will result in penal sanction by the board, one way or the other. The removal of the press from so many critical meetings of the board, a right to which the board is entitled, but an indictment of its own opinion of democratic participation. The almost total actual control exerted by the secretary over the board members, which manifested itself famously at yet another closed doors meeting last March, in which 20-30 board members rose to speak in his favour, and in which he received a 100% vote of confidence from the delegates - in spite of being an incredibly polarising figure across the GAA community in Cork and across the land. The truth is that the only person living in a parallel world to the rest of us is the secretary. ON his own as a professional in an amateur organisation, on his own as a permanent member of a rotating executive, on his own with a 100% vote of confidence from his peers, unlike the manager or the players, in my opinion he is the one with the inflated ego, he is the one who is deluded. Therefore, it is not surprising that he is willing to risk the reputation of St. Colman's, as I have no doubt he thinks he will win and it will be business as usual next year, just like it ended up in all the previous long wars. And if the man is so confident in himself and his greatness in the GAA(his words during the 2002 strike), then I'm sure he'd rather see the whole organisation torn down in Cork than see it move on without him. 100% sure. Next weekend's match is the point of no return for everybody involved in gaelic games in Cork. If Ger Mc fields a team in the most unimaginably difficult circumstances, then it will be players who are proud to play versus elite money grabbers, or scabs versus player welfare, or those who are not with me are against me, and we'll all be forced to take sides. Shame on you Frank Murphy for allowing this to happen. It is an absolute disgrace! The above two posts are written by another Cork supporter elsewhere. A brilliant post. The bold sentence refers to the decision to play Sunday's match, Cork v St Colmans.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 18/11/2008 12:06:23    143846

From what I know, that is a great post.

Benny, you and I are on the same side, the side of the GAA.

Cork is a great county, I know from having lived there, and its a great GAA county. It is good that all counties are strong, and Cork needs to be strong.

We differ on whether it is correct by the players to use Gerald McCarthy as their weapon, or their war.

Why cant they strike until the CCB is changed? I dont get why they cant?

Its been good debating with you.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2574 - 18/11/2008 13:04:24    143908

Think its time that people agree to differ on this it been debated to death at this stage and i've heard enough about it.... no doubt if a resoulution is not found there'll be another strike.... terrible to see in such a stronghold of gaa and also a county many people have (or had) so much respect for.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 18/11/2008 14:03:28    143977

Benny, looks like the lack of anyone with any pedigree to stand to be a selector with Gerald could be the final nail in the coffin? Unless Frank goes for nomination again?!?!?!?!?!?!?

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2574 - 19/11/2008 17:44:41    145265

Teddy McCarthy is going for it. He was a football selector last year under Teddy Holland, the manager that never was. Mick Malone is rumoured to be the other one. They still need a coach an dother backroom members.

Two hour meeting last night, highly secretive went on, but Teddy was put up but not ratified. Maybe the club delegates are finally doing something?? Do not know what happened as not aloud to talk about it. Maybe they have something to hide

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 19/11/2008 19:03:59    145334

Benny, it'll be interesting if the O'Connor's father is elected to Chairman?

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2574 - 20/11/2008 13:05:29    145799

That would be simply amazing given that he is not even in the running!! I think you meant to say the O'Sullivans' father. It was interesting they tried to parachute Jim Forbes back into the job for a second, non-successive, term. Luckily enough, Jim Forbes pulled out of the race and Jerry O Sullivan will be the next chairman. Interesting times ahead. There will be a team for Sunday's match alright. Lots of players have refused to play though. Rightly so, no matter what "side" a person takes, others should not be dragged in.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 20/11/2008 14:47:40    145932

How do they play Hurling if there hands are tied?

paddyogall (Mayo) - Posts: 5110 - 11/05/2010 15:32:13    643805

Jimbo didnt you recently take credit for starting this thread you cheeky scamp!

Hillstreetblue (Dublin) - Posts: 163 - 11/05/2010 15:38:53    643815

Mad this....

Thank heavens all this was sorted and the GPA won.

(WARNING WUM ALERT - WARNING WUM ALERT)

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 11/05/2010 15:44:02    643822

Difficult enough to play with you hands tied but when youre from Cork and youve a chip on both your shoulders!!!!!!!!

juniorbsub (Wexford) - Posts: 646 - 11/05/2010 15:44:23    643824

Hillstreetblue
County: Dublin
Posts: 95

643815 Jimbo didnt you recently take credit for starting this thread you cheeky scamp!

I started the one which came just before the all important Cork meeting with the Clubs

Last year wasnt it...?? this bad boy predates my own!

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 11/05/2010 15:50:37    643831

There were a few more threads on this topic, think this one was more or less the finish of the debate.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 11/05/2010 18:29:40    644076