They are as much as part of the GAA as you, who are you to say who is in and who is out??

True enough Bennybunny but I don't think anyone is saying they shouldn't be part of the GAA. What has been said is that the Cork Senior teams should have been punished for not fulfilling fixtures. The rules were bent in their favour to the disadvantage of many other counties.

You ask who are you to say who is in and who is out? My question is who are the Cork players to manipulate the league season for their cause? Cork should have been relegated in the hurling and not Wexford and the inclusion of Cork in the football affected the outcome of relegation and promotion issues in Division 2

It is well and good for you to ask that we don't comment on internal county matters but these actions affect other counties and the players of Cork should think of players in other counties who put in just as much effort as them

tallaghtdub (Dublin) - Posts: 344 - 24/10/2008 17:24:35    126150

daytona11
County: Kildare
Posts: 1103

126008
whats this benny? People outside cork are not entitled to an opinion now? Hundreds of thousands of players get nothing out of the game but they dont throw there toys from the pram when they dont get there own way. They get on with things. At least the cork county players get well looked after etc. when the cork panel went on strike it affected the whole gaa not just them

I never said you were not entitled to an opinion. I would ask that when voicing it that you not demean others in the way you have. You might not like the Cork hurlers but they are heroes in the eys of thousands of people. Not one of them think that they own the cork jersey. In my eyes those guys have worn it with pride and have excelled at their sport at various times (including this year when everyone -imcluding me-thought that Galway would beat us handy). As far as I am concerned, as a person involved in coaching underage, I have never once been refused by any of the players when I invited them to give a guest training session, hand out medals etc.

I know all those lads are actively involved in their clubs too so to have the temerity to suggest that they are only seeking media attention is utterly disrespectful. I see lads in housing estates all across Cork city out in the evenings with hurleys in their hands wearing Cork or club jerseys. As a GAA person I think that is fantastic and given the appalling coaching structures that our archaic county board have put in place, an awful lot of that enthusiasm is down to the current players.

You said that the players have been treated well...very much open to debate this topic...define well??

The Cork panel's strike affected the whole of the GAA. We can agree on this one but I would like to rephrase it if I may and given that I am a closer to the action than you, by rephrasing, I will give a truer reflection of the facts. How about this: The county Board's intransigence and outright lack of respect for their players affected the whole of the GAA. That is true, without a doubt and maybe we should be booted out of the GAA. In fact I would gladly accept that punishment as we would have no revenue from Croke Park and that would gall our county board. However, this whole sorry mess has been portrayed as all player's making. That is wrong.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 24/10/2008 17:27:28    126152

The Cork situation is a farce! these shud be dealt wit harshley if they go on strike again- a long ban would do da trick! people are sick and tired of the constant whinging and excuses provided by cork when they lose i.e waterford 07 and they run riot i.e semplegate'. and this continued problem year in year out of appointiing a manager is beyond a joke. is there not a set process in place that each county uses to recruit a manager? how come we never hear of similar issues in other counties???

Kinnear (Westmeath) - Posts: 158 - 24/10/2008 17:50:55    126173

Kinnear
County: Westmeath
Posts: 13

126173
The Cork situation is a farce! these shud be dealt wit harshley if they go on strike again- a long ban would do da trick! people are sick and tired of the constant whinging and excuses provided by cork when they lose i.e waterford 07 and they run riot i.e semplegate'. and this continued problem year in year out of appointiing a manager is beyond a joke. is there not a set process in place that each county uses to recruit a manager? how come we never hear of similar issues in other counties???



What are you talking about man?? What excuses??? Semplegate...were Cork players fighting among themselves?? So nobody in Clare is to blame, they are complete angels are they?? and what abot the guy from the Munster council who had the bright idea to let 60 players that were fired up for a big Munster championship match out at the same time?? No you are right, we should all take on board your erudite and enlightening comments and just throw them out. That would be great for the game and the association...what a twit!!

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 25/10/2008 19:56:52    126564

i think there's just a genuine frustration with this bunch of cork players moaning over this that and the other. just accept who's in charge and play the games. there seems to be a perception that because they train hard and look after themselves, they should be running the show. well, every county trains hard and make huge sacrafices. but you dont see them in the papers every year. cork should take note.

just row in behind the manager or drop out of panel altogether and let some new blood take over. well done to gerald for standing his ground, he's dead right!

evangelist (Longford) - Posts: 245 - 25/10/2008 20:54:41    126590

The Cork situation is a very complex and tricky matter. As a Cork man i regret that these issues have affected the GAA like they have and particularly this year. I feel that the Cork players have been landed with all the blame when it comes to this argrument and that is not fair.What you have in cork is a dictatorship being ruled by and iron fist by one man. His status and wealth of knowledge on GAA matters are legendary but--- . Now lads before we go back to cutting the sh*t out of the cork players lets look at it from their point of view. all they want is what is best for cork and what ever management systems are needed to be in place in order for cork to win the all-ireland. I think they are in the best position to make a judgement call on how good or bad gerald mc carthy is. mc carthy has had two years in charge and he has lost five championship matches in that time. from 2001 to 2006 the cork hurlers lost only five championship matches. He is a nice man and he knows alot about the game and has served cork very well over the years but enough is enough, he most go. let there be no doubts that what is going on in cork is a disgrace. its embarrising for cork people. we are the most successful county in gaa history with well over 100 all irelands in all codes. that man in the county board wrote his own contract and will be there until his death, unfortunately. it is a very sad situation and something which the rest of the country should support the cork hurlers and footballers, instead of typical crap that spouts from people on this site.

happytobehere (Cork) - Posts: 360 - 25/10/2008 21:51:41    126614

Benny, I wouldn't bother me hole answering the likes of Kinnear, he obviously hasn't a clue what he's talking about and is in essence a clown trying to be funny without any facts to back himself up.
Other posters on here are worth a response but the lads just having a go at players should just be ignored. You gotta mind your blood pressure man! I'm thinking myself it's time for a long holiday for the likes of us, this looks like it's gonna last a while!

dowchabiy (UK) - Posts: 204 - 25/10/2008 22:12:48    126624

I'd just like to point out that this story was made public through county board officials/ an interview with Gerald. I don't believe the players have publicly said anything about it. There's been no mention of strike action, or any action at all for that matter. It's very easy to attack long-standing members on the current Cork hurling squad, so much that it's nearly a cliche now to say that Cusack is too big for his boots. But most of ye don't know the half of the situation and would do well to calm down and focus on your own squads rather than ours. The Cork strike might have impacted on other counties through the league, but the teams that were good enough survived nonetheless. Westmeath were promoted, without the advantage of getting a bye from Cork, and to claim that Wexford were less deserving of relegation than Cork is ridiculous.

I think people on all sides are getting too involved in off-match issues. I for one will follow Cork footballers and hurlers to the death when they're on that pitch, playing the games we all love. I wish I and my fellow Corkonians weren't in a position where we have to think if we'll do the same after the matches

St.K (Cork) - Posts: 210 - 26/10/2008 03:06:01    126704

I have lived in Cork for the past two years. The Cork hurlers have been quite professionally run for the past few years and Im sure their original strike was quite productive.
The GAA is a democratically run organisation. Each club elects delegates at their AGM. These delegates go to the county AGM and vote on things like appointing officers and any other business appropriate. These elected officers then perform tasks like electing managers for their county teams. That is how, and should be how every county works.
In Cork, the players feel that they should have a greater say in how things are decided. They feel that as the players they have a greater importance within the GAA in Cork.
This flies in the face of what the GAA represents. The Wexford Senior hurling team has as much right, for example, to listen to what I have to say as it does the captain of the team.
If the Cork players have a grievance, there is an established channel of communication there. If they themselves want to be heard more, they should become elected delegates at their clubs and voice their opinions that way.
Regarding the current mess they have begun, it appears there was 2 players on a 7 man committee to choose the next manager. 5 men decided they wanted Gerald McCarthy. 2 did not. Thats democracy gentlemen. You were privileged to have 2 representatives on that selection committee to begin with.
Their striking now, again, because they did not get their way is an insult to every GAA member who follows the Cork hurlers, who attends their club AGM's, and who voted within Cork GAA.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2574 - 28/10/2008 10:19:25    127713

27 of 29 man squad have said they will not play for mccarthy per rte 2 fm today so does this mean the tams on strike or will the team go on and play only with a total overhaul?

redhandman (Tyrone) - Posts: 431 - 28/10/2008 10:46:45    127738

i'll put it plain and simple benny. The way the think they can carry on is a disgrace.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 28/10/2008 11:06:54    127760

happytobehere - as another poster has pointed out, there are democratic measures in place to deal with the selection of managers and officials etc. Granted the players can put the "we want whats best for cork hurling" slant on their agenda but what they're doing is simply throwing their weight around. This quest to dress a certain individual up as the bogeyman everytime that an internal issue appears on the horizon is their own way of working the media.
Because of their success with the other strikes, they seem content to follow this line of action everytime they don't get their way. Gerald McCarthy has done as much for Cork hurling as any other manager. You mentioned Corks record in the last 5 years and what their record has been like in the last 2 years under McCarthy. Simply put, Cork are not as good a team as they were 5 years ago. Its been more or less the same team since 03 so naturally teams have learned how to combat them - not just under McCarthy but under Allen as well. Losing a player like Brian Corcoran was always going to have a major impact and in other matches they just didn't have the rub of the green - that happens!!
Cork hurling would have the same attitude towards success as Kerry footballers do - they expect to be winning All-Irelands every year and are incredibly hungry for success. Nothing wrong with that but blaming the manager every time things go wrong is just short sighted and an easy excuse. In the games which Cork have lost in the last 2 years, you could very easily argue that certain players didn't perform when needed just as much as you can argue that McCarthy got tactics wrong.

holymoly (Dublin) - Posts: 757 - 28/10/2008 11:32:01    127773

holymoly County: Dublin Posts: 487 127773 happytobehere - as another poster has pointed out, there are democratic measures in place to deal with the selection of managers and officials etc. Granted the players can put the "we want whats best for cork hurling" slant on their agenda but what they're doing is simply throwing their weight around. This quest to dress a certain individual up as the bogeyman everytime that an internal issue appears on the horizon is their own way of working the media. Happytobehere: that is an excellent response to ths thread, by far the best it is a pity no one took the time to read it properly. Let us look at a few high profile cases involving our county board so our players are not taking all the blame (in my opinion they should not have to shoulder any blame) from people that do not know. 1) in the run up to the last vote on Rule 42 an awful lot of clubs held meetings to vote on the issue. The Evening Echo (local paper) carried the results of each clubs vote. All clubs except for two voted to change 42 and allow soccer/rugby in Croke Park. How did our six delegates at congress vote?? The voted No to soccer/rugby in Croke Park. does that sound like democracy in Cork GAA?? No, there might be democracy somewhere else, but there is none here. 2) In a previous vote on Rule 42, with again Cork voting No (despite the fact that most people wanted it overturned), the Cork delegation, fearing that a vote might go against them, proposed, skillfully in a way, that the vote should take place during a recess. It happened and Rule 42 stayed...another example of the Cork county board espousing democracy...yeah right!! 3) In the debate on Rule 21, Cork was the only non-Ulster county to vote to keep it in place. The reason was the clubs were not even allowed to vote on that issue. It was decided that it was an Ulster problem hence they should deal with, Cork would just follow them. However, main point was no vote was allowed. So from those three examples what you see is, clubs will elect members at their AGM but it does not matter, on the really big issues, in Cork, the vote does not really count for anything. As happytobehere has rightly said, one person has rewritten the rules to suit himself and has surrounded himself with yes men and will not disagree with him. Clubs are afraid to go against him because if they do, they could find themselves playing a county championship game in the oppositions pitch at a time that did not suit (anyone with a rebellious streak is punished severely and will not step out of line again). The current Cork players are the first to have the courage to stand up to him, they have the backing of most young GAA people in Cork (ie the future of Cork). They are prepared to sacrifice their careers for that. 4) What has happened on this occasion is that there was supposed to be a 7 man committee to choose the best canidate from a number of canidates. The Cork County Board only allowed one person to go forward.: that is hardly democratic. The Cork County board lost some of its power in 2002 and 2007 when all the players were looking for is a bit of respect. The Kieran Mulvey document set parameters on their negotians from here on in. What you have now is the Cork County Board desperately trying to regain that power by pushing and testing the players. It is the County board that are playing the media, not the players. I wish you could all see that.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 28/10/2008 13:29:50    127920

Bennybunny - after you read my earlier post, i have the following to say.

The Cork hurlers are wrong to try to prevent Gerald McCarthy becoming manager. There is no other way to dress it up. He was democratically elected by people who were democratically elected. If the Cork hurlers withdraw their services over this, then it is they who are bullies. If Gerald McCarthy is a bad manager (I in fact think he is a very good manager), then he is a bad manager. It is not the players business to prevent anyone becoming manager. If the Cork County board voted my Granny to be the next manager, then its tough luck on the players (hopefully that wont happen. I dont think she plays much hurling).

As an aside, Cork hurled better this year against Kilkenny than I have ever seen them play. They looked sharp and fit and Kilkenny were just better. They were well prepared and lost. Against Galway, Gerald McCarthy's tactics won them a match they could/should have lost after their goalkeeper stupidly almost cost them their years work. Against a good Clare team, they were well prepared and again Gerald McCarthy's tactics were spot on. They do not have a good enough team to beat Tipp or Kilkenny or even Waterford any more.

Part of me hopes they do get the manager they want. So that when they fail, again, they will finally have to look in the mirror and wont have any scapegoat.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2574 - 28/10/2008 14:05:55    127969

benny -

If the Cork clubs are unhappy at how their delegates voted at Nation Congress then they need to raise that matter at the next AGM, or call an EGM.

The 7 man committee was asked to name some candidates. 5 named one candidate, the other two (players) gave none. By not proposing anyone else, they effectively allowed the meeting to take this course. If they had come up with 2 or 3 alternatives, and these were rejected they might have a case. Possibly. But they didnt and so they dont.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2574 - 28/10/2008 16:24:41    128133

Bennybunny,
Listen your wasting your time trying to explain to people ,what the ccb are like, unless you have come up against them you couldnt explain it.
during the summer i had a converstion with a guy from kerry and he was giving out about the strike issue i asked him the following questions,
How often do kerry county board change?
he gave his reply, when i explained our set up, he couldnt belive it.
Its like musical chairs in that board room, The same yes men for years and all they do is change titles.
As for the main man himself. what other county board has someone with a contract like his, we all have heard whats meant to be written on it, and that he wrote it and signed it himself.
So my point is ingore the likes of daytona etc , these guys probably hated cork even before 2002 and just using the last year and this story to actually verbalise it. i found that most people who were a small bit clued in to cork GAA understood the strike last year and while they necessarly didnt approve of it , could understand why it needed to be done.
whats annoying is that the players didn't leak this to the media, the CCB did,like last year when the stike was nearly fixed the CCB leaked a completly confidential document to the press, that actually draged it out for another couple of weeks,which lead the league being upset but who got the blame, Players, not a word mention of the CCB.
as for democitclly elected, well that techinally thats true, but why vote if the decision has already being made, it was cos only one name was being put forward.
Donegal players have the same grip don't they?
This fact is that until FM retires there will always be these arguments in the cork set up. Unfortually for FM he has now got a group of players who are willing to stand up to him and he cant handle it.
As for Mc Carthy , not sure if he is the right man for the job, I think we need a strong guy in there that will refuse to be told what to do. either by players or by CCB. God knows we put up with years of him saying who goes on the team.
If there is another county that has a chairman like this i certainly want to know it,but from what i can gather we are the only ones .

ver (None) - Posts: 228 - 28/10/2008 16:41:08    128153

Very good point Ver, well made. It is important for people to fully understand the situation in cork gaa and to do this i will tell ye a story. Cork is divided into divisions and the city division is obviously one of the biggest. In 2005 Brian Dillons (a Junior A team from the North side of the city) won the Junior A Hurling city Division hurling championship. During 2006, the Junior A Hurling championship was delayed as a result of the Cork Senior teams progress in the championship and as a result the City Division County Board had to nominate a team to go a represent the City Division along with all the other divisional champions in the County Championship. At that time Glen Rovers were already through to the city division final and Brian Dillons were to play Nemo Rangers in a semi final when the delay was ocurring. When the matter was raised in the County Board meeting you would have thought as reigning champions, Brian Dillons would have been selected to represent the city division in the county championship. However, someone in importance within the city division decided to nominate Glen Rovers to go through and it was put to a vote where all the various teams were mentioned and here is the important part of this story. The Brian Dillons delagates who were there to represent their clubs best interests reportedly voted along with this person and most of the other city division club delagates for Glen Rovers to go through. They voted against their own club cause I believe they had no choice but to do so. They really sad bit about this story was that this caused uproar within the Brian Dillons club and both delagates left the club after nearly 40 years of service between them. This incident is only a small snapshot of the Cork County board at City Division Junior level. I was not present for these events but they were relayed to me by a person who was close to it and i hope I have pertrayed these events as accurately as possible. Now if people can understand, what huge power these people have at senior county board level and they have had this power and influence since the early 1970's then ye can imigine how----

happytobehere (Cork) - Posts: 360 - 28/10/2008 18:08:16    128247

Benny, ver, happytobehere.

I think the GAA in almost every county in the country is full of politics. It is well known that Cork have had their fair share of tyrants - as well as some great GAA people. I won't even begin to understand it all but will ask one or two things. Why does this kind of thing happen almost exclusively in Cork? Why does it happen every other year? How come no other county has these level of problems on an almost annual basis at this stage? As I said there is politics everywhere but there are dealt with - without the actions that Cork have taken over the years. I am not taking any sides but I think the rest of Ireland is brassed off with it - especially the effect on the Leagues last season. I don't think the rest of us care who is at fault. We would just prefer if Cork got on with it and sorted things out internally - once and for all. It is getting wearying year after year and is sullying a proud GAA countys reputation.

JayoCluxton (Dublin) - Posts: 2688 - 28/10/2008 22:29:59    128421

If Cork strike, which now looks likely, they should be thrown out of any competition in which they fail to field a team. Last year they got the benefit of the doubt as everyone thought that would be the last of it. But that cant happen this year. They must be ejected if they fail to keep fixtures.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2574 - 29/10/2008 09:34:24    128585

so the cork players will not return under the current regime. at least they men of there word. gotta hand them that. i hope the county board down there doesnt back down. two wrongs don't neccesarily make a right. what players in other counties have a say in who the manager is? even if they dont like the manager they still want to give their all for their counties cause. cork players dont seem to want to give their all for corks cause.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 29/10/2008 09:37:08    128587