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Patrick Horgan.

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Replying To countyman2022:  "Big time players show up in the big matches. Thats the difference."
Agree with that, peak Cian Lynch scored 6 from play in 2021 All Ireland and assisted a massive 2-4. In my opinion he is a superior player to Horgan. Hego has also stood up and on other occasions, especially in the first final against KK when he put in one of the all time great all Ireland performances, also superior imo. Your star players get you over the line on the biggest days. The Limerick players have probably ran themselves into the ground with the intensity the played at and i don't think any Limerick player will have the longevity of a Hoggie or TJ. If you look at what Gillane contributes to the team outside of scores in comparison to Horgan, the difference is night and day.

Dowling couldn't make the starting team Limerick despite his excellent scoring record as he couldn't hit the required markers for the other side of the game. Were Cork ruthless enough in that situation too over the last few years??

In saying that Hoggie is definitely a legend and in the top 10 of all time is probably fair. He has been an unbelievable servant to Cork hurling and all hurling ans in general.

Fitzy01 (Limerick) - Posts: 463 - 29/09/2025 15:45:58    2637842

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Replying To Fitzy01:  "Agree with that, peak Cian Lynch scored 6 from play in 2021 All Ireland and assisted a massive 2-4. In my opinion he is a superior player to Horgan. Hego has also stood up and on other occasions, especially in the first final against KK when he put in one of the all time great all Ireland performances, also superior imo. Your star players get you over the line on the biggest days. The Limerick players have probably ran themselves into the ground with the intensity the played at and i don't think any Limerick player will have the longevity of a Hoggie or TJ. If you look at what Gillane contributes to the team outside of scores in comparison to Horgan, the difference is night and day.

Dowling couldn't make the starting team Limerick despite his excellent scoring record as he couldn't hit the required markers for the other side of the game. Were Cork ruthless enough in that situation too over the last few years??

In saying that Hoggie is definitely a legend and in the top 10 of all time is probably fair. He has been an unbelievable servant to Cork hurling and all hurling ans in general."
Patrick Horgan ia AMONG the best players to play the game and a tremendous Cork servant. However he would not be in the top ten in my life time and that is not to denegrade him in anyway. There are way too many great players that I would have to omit to to get him there.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3206 - 07/10/2025 19:00:43    2638874

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Replying To Canuck:  "Patrick Horgan ia AMONG the best players to play the game and a tremendous Cork servant. However he would not be in the top ten in my life time and that is not to denegrade him in anyway. There are way too many great players that I would have to omit to to get him there."
He would nt even be in the top ten forwards not to mind the top ten players.He was good but no Shefflin or Canning or Tj Reid or Gillane or Eoin Kelly Tony Kelly Shane O Donnell

brayballer (Wicklow) - Posts: 387 - 07/10/2025 20:35:28    2638887

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Replying To brayballer:  "He would nt even be in the top ten forwards not to mind the top ten players.He was good but no Shefflin or Canning or Tj Reid or Gillane or Eoin Kelly Tony Kelly Shane O Donnell"
Along with those Gearoid Hegarty, DJ Carey, Ben O'Connor, Willie Dunphy, Seamie Callanan, Cathal Mannion, Cian Lynch, Lar Corbett, Joe Deane, Eddie Brennan, Tom Morrissey, Eoin Larkin, Neil Mcmanus, Noel Mcgrath, Marty Kavanagh, John Mullane, Lee Chin, Brick Walsh, Martin Comerford, Damien Hayes, Dan Shanagher and probably others I've forgotten all had or have varying different types of X factor also.
Picking a top 10 forwards from all of those is impossible, and purely subjective if tried.
But Pa Horgan belongs in that company for sure.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17509 - 08/10/2025 18:00:00    2638977

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The term greatest or using a top any number is a completely ridiculous assessment. The term great players is correct. Before you get to the last 40 years the list of great players is long. Ring,Mackey, Rackard,Keane, Smyth, Philly Grimes,Barry,Lynch, Langton to name just some. Then you move up Keher,Billy Dwyer, Franky Walsh and on to the Richie Bennie era. The chucky O'Brien ,Franky Cummins and on to Whelahan, Dooley,Connolly's eras. That is not even mentioning greats like Joe Henry who never played in a final. All greats through to today but giving a number? Or claiming any one of them was the greatest is disrespectful to the rest.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3206 - 08/10/2025 19:31:28    2638987

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Replying To Canuck:  "The term greatest or using a top any number is a completely ridiculous assessment. The term great players is correct. Before you get to the last 40 years the list of great players is long. Ring,Mackey, Rackard,Keane, Smyth, Philly Grimes,Barry,Lynch, Langton to name just some. Then you move up Keher,Billy Dwyer, Franky Walsh and on to the Richie Bennie era. The chucky O'Brien ,Franky Cummins and on to Whelahan, Dooley,Connolly's eras. That is not even mentioning greats like Joe Henry who never played in a final. All greats through to today but giving a number? Or claiming any one of them was the greatest is disrespectful to the rest."
These guys were all great within their own era's, its hard to compare guys from different era's. ie most of the older guys there wouldn't last in the modern game, they wouldn't be fit enough in the slightest to begin with.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2582 - 09/10/2025 17:17:02    2639120

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Replying To Canuck:  "The term greatest or using a top any number is a completely ridiculous assessment. The term great players is correct. Before you get to the last 40 years the list of great players is long. Ring,Mackey, Rackard,Keane, Smyth, Philly Grimes,Barry,Lynch, Langton to name just some. Then you move up Keher,Billy Dwyer, Franky Walsh and on to the Richie Bennie era. The chucky O'Brien ,Franky Cummins and on to Whelahan, Dooley,Connolly's eras. That is not even mentioning greats like Joe Henry who never played in a final. All greats through to today but giving a number? Or claiming any one of them was the greatest is disrespectful to the rest."
These guys were all great within their own era's, its hard to compare guys from different era's. ie most of the older guys there wouldn't last in the modern game, they wouldn't be fit enough in the slightest to begin with.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2582 - 09/10/2025 17:51:22    2639127

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Replying To Bon:  "These guys were all great within their own era's, its hard to compare guys from different era's. ie most of the older guys there wouldn't last in the modern game, they wouldn't be fit enough in the slightest to begin with."
With the same conditioning and coaching the players get today they would be just as great as any of them.
They could all hurl, whether or not it was in a different era was academic.
I saw Mick Jacob (Snr) pucking around a few years ago in Oulart one night. He had a first touch of a 20 year old.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1510 - 09/10/2025 18:37:10    2639134

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Replying To Bon:  "These guys were all great within their own era's, its hard to compare guys from different era's. ie most of the older guys there wouldn't last in the modern game, they wouldn't be fit enough in the slightest to begin with."
They would if they were in this era though. They'd be doing the same work as everyone else and then talent would shine through as always.
Jessie Owens' personal best wouldn't even get him near an Olympic final these days. But he was the fastest man on earth in his own era.
If he was around today, he'd be training like current athletes and would be running on modern tracks with modern gear. I'd have to imagine he'd be right up there.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2629 - 09/10/2025 19:49:24    2639140

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "They would if they were in this era though. They'd be doing the same work as everyone else and then talent would shine through as always.
Jessie Owens' personal best wouldn't even get him near an Olympic final these days. But he was the fastest man on earth in his own era.
If he was around today, he'd be training like current athletes and would be running on modern tracks with modern gear. I'd have to imagine he'd be right up there."
I think of a guy like Éamonn Cregan
He had a hurling brain like nobody else I have seen plus wrists
As good as he was, imagine if he was playing now with all the professional preparation, coaching, fitness etc
Plus the number of games players got - Cregan hurled in a relatively good period for Limerick mid 60s to early 80s but plenty of years he had one Championship game and done - according to Wikipedia in 19 seasons he played 40 Championship games

Yadse (Limerick) - Posts: 213 - 10/10/2025 03:26:16    2639161

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Replying To Yadse:  "I think of a guy like Éamonn Cregan
He had a hurling brain like nobody else I have seen plus wrists
As good as he was, imagine if he was playing now with all the professional preparation, coaching, fitness etc
Plus the number of games players got - Cregan hurled in a relatively good period for Limerick mid 60s to early 80s but plenty of years he had one Championship game and done - according to Wikipedia in 19 seasons he played 40 Championship games"
Slightly off topic but related to your point on the number of games played.
Limerick played 21 games in their route to their 4 in a row having to negotiate the round Robin (except in 2020) and won Munster each year to limit the number of games played.

KK played 16 games on the road to their 4 in a row going straight into the Leinster semi final, Leinster final, semi final and then final with the games spread out over a much wider time frame.

Probably unpopluar to say for many but if you were to pick strictly the best performing, most consistent and impactful hurler year in year out over the last 7 years, Kyle Hayes is head and shoulders over everyone else imo, with the potential exception of Nickie Quaid. The likes of Hego and Cian Lynch have had their superstar years as have a lot of other hurlers but Hayes has been consistently excellent since his break through year in 2018.

Fitzy01 (Limerick) - Posts: 463 - 10/10/2025 14:30:06    2639236

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Replying To Viking66:  "Along with those Gearoid Hegarty, DJ Carey, Ben O'Connor, Willie Dunphy, Seamie Callanan, Cathal Mannion, Cian Lynch, Lar Corbett, Joe Deane, Eddie Brennan, Tom Morrissey, Eoin Larkin, Neil Mcmanus, Noel Mcgrath, Marty Kavanagh, John Mullane, Lee Chin, Brick Walsh, Martin Comerford, Damien Hayes, Dan Shanagher and probably others I've forgotten all had or have varying different types of X factor also.
Picking a top 10 forwards from all of those is impossible, and purely subjective if tried.
But Pa Horgan belongs in that company for sure."
If I was picking the best forwards of my era, it'd probably look like:

T.Kelly Lynch Canning

E.Kelly Shefflin Carey

Horgan wouldn't get on my second team, too liable for an off-day when needed most compared to the greats

beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1513 - 10/10/2025 15:12:35    2639241

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Replying To Yadse:  "I think of a guy like Éamonn Cregan
He had a hurling brain like nobody else I have seen plus wrists
As good as he was, imagine if he was playing now with all the professional preparation, coaching, fitness etc
Plus the number of games players got - Cregan hurled in a relatively good period for Limerick mid 60s to early 80s but plenty of years he had one Championship game and done - according to Wikipedia in 19 seasons he played 40 Championship games"
Absolutely get what you mean.

We've absolute legends in Wexford who only played 30 odd championship games where you could get that in 4 seasons now.

I'd love to know how players like rackard, McGrath, flood, doran, even dunne, o gorman etc. Might have performed with the kind of preparations involved now.

I would argue most senior club teams would now be at a higher standard than county was in the 90s in terms of nutrition, s and c, saq etc. No beer bellies or moustaches anywhere in sight.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4030 - 10/10/2025 15:31:22    2639249

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "Absolutely get what you mean.

We've absolute legends in Wexford who only played 30 odd championship games where you could get that in 4 seasons now.

I'd love to know how players like rackard, McGrath, flood, doran, even dunne, o gorman etc. Might have performed with the kind of preparations involved now.

I would argue most senior club teams would now be at a higher standard than county was in the 90s in terms of nutrition, s and c, saq etc. No beer bellies or moustaches anywhere in sight."
Imagine someone the size of Dunne playing centre back nowadays...

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2582 - 10/10/2025 16:22:13    2639260

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "Absolutely get what you mean.

We've absolute legends in Wexford who only played 30 odd championship games where you could get that in 4 seasons now.

I'd love to know how players like rackard, McGrath, flood, doran, even dunne, o gorman etc. Might have performed with the kind of preparations involved now.

I would argue most senior club teams would now be at a higher standard than county was in the 90s in terms of nutrition, s and c, saq etc. No beer bellies or moustaches anywhere in sight."
Jaysus, those moustaches are deadly. The really slow a fellow down. Just imagine the speedster that Billy Byrne would have been, had he been introduced to a razor blade.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2396 - 10/10/2025 17:21:41    2639276

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "They would if they were in this era though. They'd be doing the same work as everyone else and then talent would shine through as always.
Jessie Owens' personal best wouldn't even get him near an Olympic final these days. But he was the fastest man on earth in his own era.
If he was around today, he'd be training like current athletes and would be running on modern tracks with modern gear. I'd have to imagine he'd be right up there."
Tend to agree. The cream always comes to the top. Not many players present or past could take a pass behind their back while running towards goal. . I witnessed it. Philly Grimes taking passes from Seamus Power.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3206 - 10/10/2025 23:32:20    2639290

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Replying To Bon:  "Imagine someone the size of Dunne playing centre back nowadays..."
To be fair it was uncommon then too. His style got him into some trouble in his own time, but just wouldn't be allowed at all now.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4030 - 11/10/2025 16:03:44    2639331

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "To be fair it was uncommon then too. His style got him into some trouble in his own time, but just wouldn't be allowed at all now."
A throwback back even back then, it might be said.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17509 - 11/10/2025 18:24:21    2639348

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "Absolutely get what you mean.

We've absolute legends in Wexford who only played 30 odd championship games where you could get that in 4 seasons now.

I'd love to know how players like rackard, McGrath, flood, doran, even dunne, o gorman etc. Might have performed with the kind of preparations involved now.

I would argue most senior club teams would now be at a higher standard than county was in the 90s in terms of nutrition, s and c, saq etc. No beer bellies or moustaches anywhere in sight."
Saw Tony Doran play late in his career. 1983 League semi final, Limerick v Wexford in Thurles. As a youngster I was listening to the auld lads around me and the talk was that if Doran got a ball in his hand he was deadly with a hand pass.

Lo and behold he got a ball in his hand, was bottled up but fell backwards towards goal and hand passed to the net. I'd say he was a handful.

Limerick got over the line that day 3-10 to 2-6. After a Wexford fightback Joe McKenna came on to get a late goal for us.

Those players then might seem like they wouldn't last in today's game but come championship most hadn't a pick of day on them and played with blood and thunder. A different game back then but I think some would have played in any era. Yadse mentioned Eamonn Cregan and I fully agree. Brilliant hurling brain. A scoring machine in the forwards, a great provider. In 1973 he moved to centre back after Jim Howard was injured in the semi final. How many players have done that? Off hand I can think of Brian Whelehan and Brian Corcoran, both who were also brilliant hurlers.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6626 - 11/10/2025 22:27:57    2639392

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Replying To slayer:  "Saw Tony Doran play late in his career. 1983 League semi final, Limerick v Wexford in Thurles. As a youngster I was listening to the auld lads around me and the talk was that if Doran got a ball in his hand he was deadly with a hand pass.

Lo and behold he got a ball in his hand, was bottled up but fell backwards towards goal and hand passed to the net. I'd say he was a handful.

Limerick got over the line that day 3-10 to 2-6. After a Wexford fightback Joe McKenna came on to get a late goal for us.

Those players then might seem like they wouldn't last in today's game but come championship most hadn't a pick of day on them and played with blood and thunder. A different game back then but I think some would have played in any era. Yadse mentioned Eamonn Cregan and I fully agree. Brilliant hurling brain. A scoring machine in the forwards, a great provider. In 1973 he moved to centre back after Jim Howard was injured in the semi final. How many players have done that? Off hand I can think of Brian Whelehan and Brian Corcoran, both who were also brilliant hurlers."
Brick Walsh and Kevin Moran?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17509 - 12/10/2025 12:32:35    2639437

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