National Forum

David Clifford GOAT

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From a Wexford view, I always felt we left a bit behind football wise around 2005-2011 as we had a fine team with an exceptional player in Mattie Forde.

Jedobi (Wexford) - Posts: 262 - 29/07/2025 18:22:38    2629089

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Im watching football since the very early 70s and hes by far the most capable player I've ever seen.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8816 - 29/07/2025 18:34:15    2629095

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To be the goat you need a few things to happen

1. Win a championship by dragging an average team over the line on your back, like Maurice Fitz in 1997
2. Won 8 all Ireland medals, like Pat Spillane or James McCarthy
3. Score a record no of goals and points from play - like Mikey Sheehy
4. Win 5 player of the year awards - which no one else has done
5. Have changed the way the game is played like Stephen Cluxton

Clifford is a longway from those things at the moment.
He has the ability to be the GOAT but has to pull the finger out and keep doing it.

Michael Jordan/Tiger Woods/Serena Williams/Roger Federer/Stephen Hendry/Usain Bolt type sportspeople never had an offer day, and kept getting better every day until they got too old. They were relentless in the pursuit of greatness. Clifford hasn't shown that type of attitude until this season.
If he goes and backs it up next year and the year after, then we can talking about the goat.
For now, he is just the best footballer this year. He wasn't last year or the year before.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1540 - 29/07/2025 20:43:33    2629123

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Replying To Freethinker:  "Every age and generation have thrown up footballers of exceptional ability. Comparing one against another is just down to a personal choice. I enjoy seeing them all. Kerry have given me a variety of brilliant footballers, starting with the great Mick O'Connell and there were greats before him. Other counties too. Dublin, Galway, Mayo, Offaly - the northern counties. We should leave this GOAT stuff to the world of professional football and appreciate and enjoy the great individuals that our amateur game keeps producing."
I think this is a great post.

The player I always thought was the most naturally gifted is Matt Connor from Offaly. Gifted hands, gifted feet. He made gaelic football look effortless and stood out in an era where the Kerry footballers were outstanding. His achievements by the time his career was cut short were awesome for someone not from Kerry or Dublin. Then in the great Dublin team, Ciaran Kilkenny just seems to be every coaches dream for what he gives to a team. Power and speed, support play, everything you'd want in a player. And then there's David Clifford - we've all seen what he can do. His ability to adapt to the new rules & kick vital two pointers just adds to his aura. A truly wonderful player.

But then every player mentioned on this thread was/is great. GOAT is difficult to measure and practically impossible to crown as very few of us saw the greats who played 90-100 years ago. Good luck to all who hail any player as GOAT, tough going :-)

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6526 - 29/07/2025 21:04:08    2629131

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It's very hard to say there has been so many great players, I think you have to look at players in the context of the era they played in,
David Clifford is up there with the very nest ever even at this stage of his career, an unbelievable talent.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3404 - 29/07/2025 21:06:52    2629132

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "To be the goat you need a few things to happen

1. Win a championship by dragging an average team over the line on your back, like Maurice Fitz in 1997
2. Won 8 all Ireland medals, like Pat Spillane or James McCarthy
3. Score a record no of goals and points from play - like Mikey Sheehy
4. Win 5 player of the year awards - which no one else has done
5. Have changed the way the game is played like Stephen Cluxton

Clifford is a longway from those things at the moment.
He has the ability to be the GOAT but has to pull the finger out and keep doing it.

Michael Jordan/Tiger Woods/Serena Williams/Roger Federer/Stephen Hendry/Usain Bolt type sportspeople never had an offer day, and kept getting better every day until they got too old. They were relentless in the pursuit of greatness. Clifford hasn't shown that type of attitude until this season.
If he goes and backs it up next year and the year after, then we can talking about the goat.
For now, he is just the best footballer this year. He wasn't last year or the year before."
Tirawley.
By your standards hardly anyone has a chanxe .

If a great player drags a n average team over the line to win Sam then he certainly wont win too many All Irelands.

Alo medals while fantastic has nothing to do with the greatness of a player.

Michael Murphy a fab footballer has one AI medal.

The great Peter Canavan has two AI medals.

Matt Connor has one A1 medal and players like Mattie Forde and Declan Browne have no medals.

A player could play on a great team and win loads of medals and a much better player might nit win anything as he plays with a team that might not be as strong.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 4064 - 29/07/2025 21:54:49    2629142

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "To be the goat you need a few things to happen

1. Win a championship by dragging an average team over the line on your back, like Maurice Fitz in 1997
2. Won 8 all Ireland medals, like Pat Spillane or James McCarthy
3. Score a record no of goals and points from play - like Mikey Sheehy
4. Win 5 player of the year awards - which no one else has done
5. Have changed the way the game is played like Stephen Cluxton

Clifford is a longway from those things at the moment.
He has the ability to be the GOAT but has to pull the finger out and keep doing it.

Michael Jordan/Tiger Woods/Serena Williams/Roger Federer/Stephen Hendry/Usain Bolt type sportspeople never had an offer day, and kept getting better every day until they got too old. They were relentless in the pursuit of greatness. Clifford hasn't shown that type of attitude until this season.
If he goes and backs it up next year and the year after, then we can talking about the goat.
For now, he is just the best footballer this year. He wasn't last year or the year before."
Fireman Sam wouldn't have a look in with those requirements.... To be this GOAT you're saying the player must by default (No. 2 on your list) be on the greatest team of that era but by the same token win a championship by dragging an average team over the line on your back..(No. 1 on your list) I'm struggling with that without even mentioning the other points. I think the best peoples opinion we could ask are the opposing managers and players...The amount of time and energy vested in trying to nullify his threat would is frightening and speaks volumes. Thank God these new rules have allowed ametuer footballers play football freely and the pitch is not longer a basketball court. David Clifford has done things in Croke park (and elsewhere) from minor to senior that none of us have ever witnessed before. People travel from other clubs in Kerry just to watch him play in club games... This GOAT title is all very new but David Clifford is the greatest talent ever to play Gaelic football. He scored 1-9 in the semi final and 0-9 in the final and no motm award in either...He scored 8-61 in this championship alone, a tally associated with some players career total on retirement. I rest my case.

Dothesimplethingswell (Sligo) - Posts: 6 - 29/07/2025 22:04:24    2629145

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "It's very hard to say there has been so many great players, I think you have to look at players in the context of the era they played in,
David Clifford is up there with the very nest ever even at this stage of his career, an unbelievable talent."
Agree the context is everything. Canavan done amazing things in the 90's as a one man scoring machine without anywhere near the level of players alongside him as Clifford has or the level of off the field support in terms of training, S&C, physio etc. Then adapted his game later in his career to fit into an excellent forward line and be the leader of a young team winning their countues first ever All Ireland. Is that more or less impressive than what Clifford is doing, I think you could make a case either way. Maurice Fitzgerald's medal haul is bare compared to a lot of others in Kerry but again the context of him bridging the gap between two great Kerry eras and probably inspiring a lot of the great players of the 00's that won 4 or 5 All Irelands is important.

Clifford is an unbelievable player, impossible to say who the goat is. Also every amazing things he does gets caught on camera and distributed on many different platforms, analysed on multiple podcasts, multiple radio shows etc etc, the exposure is not remotely comparable to players of the past.

JimB1991 (Donegal) - Posts: 118 - 29/07/2025 22:20:07    2629150

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "To be the goat you need a few things to happen

1. Win a championship by dragging an average team over the line on your back, like Maurice Fitz in 1997
2. Won 8 all Ireland medals, like Pat Spillane or James McCarthy
3. Score a record no of goals and points from play - like Mikey Sheehy
4. Win 5 player of the year awards - which no one else has done
5. Have changed the way the game is played like Stephen Cluxton

Clifford is a longway from those things at the moment.
He has the ability to be the GOAT but has to pull the finger out and keep doing it.

Michael Jordan/Tiger Woods/Serena Williams/Roger Federer/Stephen Hendry/Usain Bolt type sportspeople never had an offer day, and kept getting better every day until they got too old. They were relentless in the pursuit of greatness. Clifford hasn't shown that type of attitude until this season.
If he goes and backs it up next year and the year after, then we can talking about the goat.
For now, he is just the best footballer this year. He wasn't last year or the year before."
6. Does he do things regularly that noone else can do? Yes he does.

In a few years David will be the highest scorer ever, most All Stars and most POTYs.

He won't win 8 or 9AIs though. Maybe 4 or 5 maximum.

This season was possible the greatest season I've seen anyone play.

I've been watching since the 90s and he's easily the greatest.
In Kerry the greats are Gooch, Maurice Fitz, Jack O'Shea, Mikey Sheehy and Mick O'Connell.

Clifford's better than all of them.

Donegal's greatest player is Michael Murphy.
Tyrone's greatest is Peter Canavan.
Mayo's greatest is Lee Keegan.
Dublin's probably Diarmuid Connolly in terms of pure talent.
Galway is Shane Walsh or Sean Purcell.
Down is Mickey Linden.

Clifford's better that all the them.

I actually think the closest to him is Jack O'Shea.

HolyGhost (Kerry) - Posts: 4 - 29/07/2025 23:10:13    2629161

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He is simply the BEST and is a joy to watch has it all and 3rd player of the year to come and still only 26. What I love most about him is he usually steps up when most needed and well able to look after himself physically etc.

Eire89 (Galway) - Posts: 378 - 30/07/2025 10:04:19    2629201

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Clifford is not human, that's the best I can describe him. Absolutely unbelievable and on his A game is unstoppable. He's the reason Kerry are going to win multiple more all Irelands which despite the joy in watching his brilliance will make it boring for the rest of us.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11717 - 30/07/2025 10:13:43    2629205

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Clifford is not human, that's the best I can describe him. Absolutely unbelievable and on his A game is unstoppable. He's the reason Kerry are going to win multiple more all Irelands which despite the joy in watching his brilliance will make it boring for the rest of us."
Ah here. Take a chill pill. It's not that long ago that people were questioning this Kerry team. Sport never works out the way we think it will. Roll on next season.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6192 - 30/07/2025 10:23:57    2629210

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Replying To Greengrass:  "Ah here. Take a chill pill. It's not that long ago that people were questioning this Kerry team. Sport never works out the way we think it will. Roll on next season."
New rules have opened up the game for the most naturally gifted footballers. If it was old rules I would say that but we are in a new space now.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11717 - 30/07/2025 11:31:17    2629235

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If Kerry and CLifford dominate to the extent that the GAA have to modify the tackle rules so you can actually stop him within the rules, then he will be the GOAT, as like Cluxton he will have changed the game and the GAA needed to change rules to change it back.

Before Cluxton, all kickouts went long. His invention of the short kickout changed how all teams played. TheFRC have now basically banned short kick outs to get us back to what we had before Cluxton.

THe GAA might have to ban the screen (which David and Paudie have perfected) as well as allowing a shooter be "hooked" to stop David scoring 10 points per match.

David is so good, most underage managers would have played him in midfield around our way so he could be on the ball more often.
Whichever Fossa (or Kerry) coach allowed him develop in the full forward line should be given the freedom of Killarney and should be considered the GOAT of underage GAA coaches.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1540 - 31/07/2025 12:33:16    2629451

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Clifford is not human, that's the best I can describe him. Absolutely unbelievable and on his A game is unstoppable. He's the reason Kerry are going to win multiple more all Irelands which despite the joy in watching his brilliance will make it boring for the rest of us."
Firstly I agree Kerry are in a good place now. Will they back it up in the next few seasons, we'll see. You say David Clifford is the reason? If you're right hopefully from Kerry's point of he doesn't get injured. If he was playing for Mayo would they win multiple All Irelands?

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 997 - 31/07/2025 13:12:01    2629458

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "If Kerry and CLifford dominate to the extent that the GAA have to modify the tackle rules so you can actually stop him within the rules, then he will be the GOAT, as like Cluxton he will have changed the game and the GAA needed to change rules to change it back.

Before Cluxton, all kickouts went long. His invention of the short kickout changed how all teams played. TheFRC have now basically banned short kick outs to get us back to what we had before Cluxton.

THe GAA might have to ban the screen (which David and Paudie have perfected) as well as allowing a shooter be "hooked" to stop David scoring 10 points per match.

David is so good, most underage managers would have played him in midfield around our way so he could be on the ball more often.
Whichever Fossa (or Kerry) coach allowed him develop in the full forward line should be given the freedom of Killarney and should be considered the GOAT of underage GAA coaches."
Again Tirawley and Im not trying to contradict you but I watching football since the early 70s and some keepers used the short kickout then.
In fact Kerry ds Paudie Mahony got caught with a short kickout v Cork in 1976 Munster final and thevgreat Jimmy Barry Murphy scored a goal out of iy.

One of the first keepers to use the short kickout regularly was a Dub alright but it was Paddy Cullen.

I recall the great man being interviewed in the 70s and he said something like "its better to kick a ball ten yards to your own player than kick it 60 yards to an opposing player.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 4064 - 31/07/2025 13:17:06    2629459

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Firstly I agree Kerry are in a good place now. Will they back it up in the next few seasons, we'll see. You say David Clifford is the reason? If you're right hopefully from Kerry's point of he doesn't get injured. If he was playing for Mayo would they win multiple All Irelands?"
No. We'd still get to last 10 minutes with the game in the balance and start doing the wrong things.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8193 - 31/07/2025 16:15:45    2629503

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A wonderfully talented player but Greatest of all time … ??

How many rating DC greatest of all time have seen Sean Purcell play or Gerry O'Malley or Pakie McGarty or Micky Kearns to mention only some of Connacht finest … or Frank McGuigan Tyrone or Charlie Gallagher Cavan … Mattie Forde or Declan Browne or Matt Connor …

Can't compare the conditions

Virtual professionalism, everyone has a car , training facilities, gym, nutrition the ball and the pitches … nowadays

versus …

hard physical labour with a few clerks,gardai and shop boys, leather ball which doubled in weight in wet weather - remember trying to pump it up and lace the ball - waiting for a lift or cycling …

DC best forward 2025 …

Blackcoatsoffthefield (Galway) - Posts: 11 - 31/07/2025 21:55:46    2629544

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Replying To Blackcoatsoffthefield:  "A wonderfully talented player but Greatest of all time … ??

How many rating DC greatest of all time have seen Sean Purcell play or Gerry O'Malley or Pakie McGarty or Micky Kearns to mention only some of Connacht finest … or Frank McGuigan Tyrone or Charlie Gallagher Cavan … Mattie Forde or Declan Browne or Matt Connor …

Can't compare the conditions

Virtual professionalism, everyone has a car , training facilities, gym, nutrition the ball and the pitches … nowadays

versus …

hard physical labour with a few clerks,gardai and shop boys, leather ball which doubled in weight in wet weather - remember trying to pump it up and lace the ball - waiting for a lift or cycling …

DC best forward 2025 …"
Arguably the definitive post on this subject, in my opinion. Covers stuff today's players couldn't even comprehend. It is rumoured that the late Sean Doherty switched allegiance to Dublin - as his family had moved to Dublin for work purposes - because he couldn't get any subsistence for travelling from Dublin to Aughrim or wherever for training. Would that happen today ?

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1769 - 31/07/2025 22:49:39    2629550

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Critical post but I'd take Pudie over David.
Now I wouldn't be kicking David out of bed for eating busicuts like.

farneygael (Monaghan) - Posts: 324 - 31/07/2025 23:37:36    2629562

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